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Pre-Shuffled Cards with a dealer hand shuffle | ECD GROUP | February 24, 2015


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I asked this question some time ago and never got an answer. Wondering if I can get some input. At Parx in PA, the pit boss opens the pre-shuffled cards and gives them to the dealer. The dealer then gives the cards a shuffle. Lately, MDB+ has not been working very well. I guess the dealer shuffle takes the random out of the pre-shuffled cards?

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I asked this question some time ago and never got an answer. Wondering if I can get some input. At Parx in PA, the pit boss opens the pre-shuffled cards and gives them to the dealer. The dealer then gives the cards a shuffle. Lately, MDB+ has not been working very well. I guess the dealer shuffle takes the random out of the pre-shuffled cards?

No, not likely. It is far more likely the cards were never random in the first place. Remember that casinos must order preshuffled cards in specific card orders. Vegas prefers random. But PA apparantly not, at least at Parx. But MDB+ can only do poorly in highly biased cards. So, you are probably better off watching for NOR biases.

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A quick lesson on hand shuffling:

It takes a minimum of 7 shuffles to randomize a single deck of cards.

2 decks is not 14 shuffles. It is 7 X 7 or 49 shuffles.

8 decks is 7 X 7 X 7 X 7 X 7 X 7 X 7 X 7 or 7 to the 8th power.

To shuffle 8 decks to a random condition, the dealer would be shuffling for a month.

In casino shuffles, each card only gets shuffled 2 or 3 times - often only once.

That is not going to change a bias at all.

THAT is why I'm saying that your PA cards were never random in the first place.

The casino ordered biased cards from the manufacturer.

And whether the casino shuffles them or not doesn't make a single bit of difference.

If anything, their cursory shuffle will make them more biased - not less.

The casino learned these tricks in BJ. They discovered shuffle technology.

In BJ, Basic Strategy only works in random cards.

The card pick up rules clump the cards.

The more the cards are played and the more players in the game the more highs and lows clump up.

And the more the cards are clumped the less often Basic Strategy wins.

Overall Basic Strategy, therefore, only wins 43% of the hands.

And you only get a BJ once every 40 hands.

Therefore if you play perfect Basic Strategy, you will lose PERFECTLY.

Now the casinos apply the same shuffle technology to Baccarat.

Biased cards stay biased and random cards stay random right through the shuffle.

The shuffle is virtually meaningless in Baccarat and in BJ it actually makes the game worse.

So how does anyone win at Baccarat?

Play NOR against biased cards and play MDB+ against random cards.

The SAP count tells you the difference.

And how does one beat BJ???

Play Basic Strategy against new (random) cards.

But once the cards are clumped BS will no longer work.

Go by the last card dealt prior to your decision.

If that card would have helped you, hit. If not, stand.

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Great answer. Just a few more questions based upon your last post. 1. Have you seen regular cards (Not pre-shuffled) come in the larger box (8 decks in one box)? 2. If they are not pre-shuffled and the dealer hand shuffle would make them more biased, would it cause clumping? If they do clump would it dictate your next bet in baccarat?

A quick lesson on hand shuffling:

It takes a minimum of 7 shuffles to randomize a single deck of cards.

2 decks is not 14 shuffles. It is 7 X 7 or 49 shuffles.

8 decks is 7 X 7 X 7 X 7 X 7 X 7 X 7 X 7 or 7 to the 8th power.

To shuffle 8 decks to a random condition, the dealer would be shuffling for a month.

In casino shuffles, each card only gets shuffled 2 or 3 times - often only once.

That is not going to change a bias at all.

THAT is why I'm saying that your PA cards were never random in the first place.

The casino ordered biased cards from the manufacturer.

And whether the casino shuffles them or not doesn't make a single bit of difference.

If anything, their cursory shuffle will make them more biased - not less.

The casino learned these tricks in BJ. They discovered shuffle technology.

In BJ, Basic Strategy only works in random cards.

The card pick up rules clump the cards.

The more the cards are played and the more players in the game the more highs and lows clump up.

And the more the cards are clumped the less often Basic Strategy wins.

Overall Basic Strategy, therefore, only wins 43% of the hands.

And you only get a BJ once every 40 hands.

Therefore if you play perfect Basic Strategy, you will lose PERFECTLY.

Now the casinos apply the same shuffle technology to Baccarat.

Biased cards stay biased and random cards stay random right through the shuffle.

The shuffle is virtually meaningless in Baccarat and in BJ it actually makes the game worse.

So how does anyone win at Baccarat?

Play NOR against biased cards and play MDB+ against random cards.

The SAP count tells you the difference.

And how does one beat BJ???

Play Basic Strategy against new (random) cards.

But once the cards are clumped BS will no longer work.

Go by the last card dealt prior to your decision.

If that card would have helped you, hit. If not, stand.

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  • Keith Smith changed the title to Pre-Shuffled Cards with a dealer hand shuffle | ECD GROUP | February 24, 2015

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