The Questions that we all wanted to ask Ellis...

[ECD]

A new non-financial member of "The Forum that Cannot be Named" is seeking answers to the same questions that we all asked...

 

 Nothing peeves me more than investing in something and not getting what I paid for.  Before I take that leap of faith I need you to address the following concerns.

#1-  I looked through your bio where it said “I never lost a shoe” at Caesars when you were talking about the secret Asian high limit room.  I sincerely find that hard to believe.   I also find it hard to believe that you were backed off.  Casinos fly people in to play Bacc and are prepared to either win millions or lose millions to these whales.  You have also said on this forum that you will get kicked out for BJ but never for bacc which contradicts this previous statement.

#2-

I was looking through your archives, where you were promoting LCNB and described it as beating every kind of bias.

Fast forward a short time later you start promoting this MvD promising the same thing.

A short time after that there is ANB where it beats everything but your OTB4L method.

My question is that if you never lost a shoe at Caesars with your methods, then why change systems?   I am sure that in the record setting playing at Caesars you encountered a wide variety of streaky, choppy and neutral shoes. If you never lost a shoe the way you were playing at that time shouldn’t you be teaching that?  NEVER losing a shoe at Caesars is unprecedented but even more concerning, UNHEARD OF.  Please let me know when you are going to Caesars again and I will meet you there.  I need to see this.

#3- The Final Word

When I looked at your promoting of The Final Word, you said that everything you need to know would be in The Final Word.  Then came LCNB, MvD, ANB.   I look through the public forum and evidently there was a big delay for delivery and then the reviews were not that good.

Ellis,

If I join your forum I promise that I will be a pain in the “you know what” if I see things going aloof.   All of my concerns that I raised were from information that I viewed on your forum.

 

All I can say is...I wish him luck...LOL...looking forward to hearing the answers myself...LOL

Poor Ellis...talk about being caught between a rock and a hard place. He will desperately be wanting to get his greedy grasping mitts on this guys money and fabricating some answers or just put the whole episode in the "Too Hard" basket and delete the post. I'm betting that he will go with the same old same old... "The Casinos keep changing the cards" excuse...

 

Edited November 3, 2017 by ECD

[Keith Smith]

Join us it's a good place ....

[ECD]

2 minutes ago, Keith Smith said:

Join us it's a good place ....

YEP...full of friendly people...with the possible exception of me...but "HEY"...nobody is perfect...LOL

[Keith Smith]

did someone post that on his forum?

[ECD]

51 minutes ago, Keith Smith said:

did someone post that on his forum?

Yep...sure did...don't think he'll get the answers he wants but I'm betting that he will now get the answers that he expects...(if he gets any answers)

 

Ellis's reputation is getting trashed with each passing day.

[Keith Smith]

What is funny to me about the nature of people is he already knows the answers to his questions but being human he wants to believe so he can win millions.

[BrianJohnsonsHat]

As someone who's seen both sides of the CFC versus BTC "who is better" debate...

(Disclaimer: I may be talking total c**p as a newbie, but it's how things strike me...)

Ellis teaches purely mechanical systems, they are indeed vulnerable to a casino or whatever wising up, and pre-determining a card order. There are only a finite number of systems and permutations out there, so sooner or later you will be destroyed by the negative progression that is taught with it. You may think you are winning and a pro gambler by having all kinds of fancy money management in place (like JMoney45) , but if you cannot turn a profit flat betting then it's not a matter of "if", but "when" you lose your bankroll.

BTC players are smart, and realise there is no quick and painless way to do this gambling thing. They focus on interpreting the shoe, and acting on what it's telling them (or, in CFC-speak, they "guess"). To use an analogy of foreign languages...Rather than using a phrase book or tapping their question/query into google translate, they instead seek to learn the language of the game and to understand it. Look upon it as a living thing that reacts, rather than just being an inanimate game of chance that can be beaten by the pure force of NP's.

As for the poster you are talking about, maybe he is merely asking rhetorical questions as his BS radar has imploded, and for the sheer hell of seeing what answers he will get (whilst probably expecting to get none, or none that aren't yet more BS). Answers may not be coming anytime soon as apparently ECD's partner is in hospital. No sarcasm or other implied, merely a statement of fact...

 

[ECD]

3 hours ago, BrianJohnsonsHat said:

As someone who's seen both sides of the CFC versus BTC "who is better" debate...

(Disclaimer: I may be talking total c**p as a newbie, but it's how things strike me...)

Ellis teaches purely mechanical systems, they are indeed vulnerable to a casino or whatever wising up, and pre-determining a card order. There are only a finite number of systems and permutations out there, so sooner or later you will be destroyed by the negative progression that is taught with it. You may think you are winning and a pro gambler by having all kinds of fancy money management in place (like JMoney45) , but if you cannot turn a profit flat betting then it's not a matter of "if", but "when" you lose your bankroll.

BTC players are smart, and realise there is no quick and painless way to do this gambling thing. They focus on interpreting the shoe, and acting on what it's telling them (or, in CFC-speak, they "guess"). To use an analogy of foreign languages...Rather than using a phrase book or tapping their question/query into google translate, they instead seek to learn the language of the game and to understand it. Look upon it as a living thing that reacts, rather than just being an inanimate game of chance that can be beaten by the pure force of NP's.

As for the poster you are talking about, maybe he is merely asking rhetorical questions as his BS radar has imploded, and for the sheer hell of seeing what answers he will get (whilst probably expecting to get none, or none that aren't yet more BS). Answers may not be coming anytime soon as apparently ECD's partner is in hospital. No sarcasm or other implied, merely a statement of fact...

 

Brian, 

   I don't know if it is a question of who is better.  I just went on to CFC  and that post from the Zin guy was deleted and true to form, Ellis didn't have the fortitude to address the guy's concerns.  I am a curious guy by nature.  I waded through the website and found every concern the guy had from the information he listed.   Instead of Ellis addressing the concerns and frustrations from Zin and Mron from that forum, he starts bashing BTC, and specific systems (Like Mine).  For the record,  I have played FTS and VIn-SAP all over the country like PA, NJ, CA and LV and I have done well everywhere.  I don't really care about them bashing us.  Hell, we bash them as well too.   

   The one thing that everyone needs to take into account is the fact that the upper level players here are playing a variation of Ellis' template.  I will tell you this, I have played with all of the top players here with the exception of OZ.  EVERY rock-star here put the blood sweat and tears and worked out the flaws to Ellis's systems.  Ellis stated that he taught me, W2F and Kevin.  He didn't teach crap.  Most of the time that I was a member here when Ellis was here, we went round and round.   All of the seasoned veterans here can and have the right to moan about Ellis.   Ellis is a system seller who just wants everyone's money because he can't win it at the casino.   I say have Ellis go to Caesar's in LV and play (We all know has allegedly never lost there).  I will give him a few thousand to play with and let's see how he does.   After he loses, I will charge him $1k and teach him Vin-SAP and FTS.  

   I am so impressed with his +70 shoe that Ellis posted.  I fell for all that in the beginning.  Then I realized that Ellis already knows what the shoe did, saw the bias staring at him in the face and decided to fill in a 3,4, 5 up as you win progression.  I am so glad he played JMoney's shoe.  Both guys played with fake money and bragged about how much fake money they won.  Extremely impressive.  

   The biggest key for everyone to look at is the money.   This is Keith's forum and part of his income comes from proceeds he receives here.  This is a labor intense project he has taken on.  As far and me, W2F, Kevin, OZ and  CT, we don't get paid a dime.  We do this to help Keith and to pay it forward to everyone who wants to learn how to play this game.  Everyone's game is slightly different from one another but no one criticizes.  

 

Edited November 6, 2017 by ECD
Change

[modnar]

In defense to Ellis, I can say I also never lost a shoe at Caesars. Never played there.

[ECD]

On 06/11/2017 at 8:31 PM, BrianJohnsonsHat said:

As someone who's seen both sides of the CFC versus BTC "who is better" debate...

(Disclaimer: I may be talking total c**p as a newbie, but it's how things strike me...)

Ellis teaches purely mechanical systems, they are indeed vulnerable to a casino or whatever wising up, and pre-determining a card order. There are only a finite number of systems and permutations out there, so sooner or later you will be destroyed by the negative progression that is taught with it. You may think you are winning and a pro gambler by having all kinds of fancy money management in place (like JMoney45) , but if you cannot turn a profit flat betting then it's not a matter of "if", but "when" you lose your bankroll.

BTC players are smart, and realise there is no quick and painless way to do this gambling thing. They focus on interpreting the shoe, and acting on what it's telling them (or, in CFC-speak, they "guess"). To use an analogy of foreign languages...Rather than using a phrase book or tapping their question/query into google translate, they instead seek to learn the language of the game and to understand it. Look upon it as a living thing that reacts, rather than just being an inanimate game of chance that can be beaten by the pure force of NP's.

As for the poster you are talking about, maybe he is merely asking rhetorical questions as his BS radar has imploded, and for the sheer hell of seeing what answers he will get (whilst probably expecting to get none, or none that aren't yet more BS). Answers may not be coming anytime soon as apparently ECD's partner is in hospital. No sarcasm or other implied, merely a statement of fact...

 

Ellis had a problem with the so called "infallible" ANB system in that it was totally mechanical and the figures couldn't be fudged so he introduced a switch to OTB4L when the signs were right (which will always be subjective) and "voila"...we have an excuse for losing...You didn't "follow the shoe" correctly..."Oh, wait"...