Edgonsal

Thanks Oz, S40M1 seems like such a simple concept to play. You always bet for 1 to change to an opposite, 2's go to 3's, 4's go to 5's etc. Only odd numbers. So I guess that a default or switch mode would simply be a combo of OTB4L & F where you only play for even numbers. I'm sure that Ellis will have his take on this and offer some precautionary thoughts on the best way to play this. Great job on those 5 shoes!!!!

Yes - I do want to know how close to the stop loss you came and if there were any warning signs such as O/R patterns rising or falling, new patterns in the shoe - iar's or zz's. I have been looking at sequences of 5 plays from the beginning of the shoes with the direct correlation of O/R movement and OTL/TBL runs. Would be nice to have some thoughts from others on that.

I supplied the shoe that Ellis worked the S40 mode 1 from Foxwoods in CT. A couple of questions : Do you stick to the -8 stop loss? What was the biggest draw down? Thanks, Ed

Thanks RUEBL, I appreciate your advice. I wasn't feeling it that day, so I decided to just chill and try to learn and revamp. I've played this game on and off for six years now and have acquired the discipline to never go back into my pocket for more money unless I'm prepared. (I learned that one the hard way) Keep your emotions in check. I've had my share of big days in the casino, winning over $5000 a day but we all know the other side as well. Consistency wins in the long run and that's why I'm giving NOR a shot because it seems like a very logical approach. I do like to talk a lot but I'm pretty good at listening when something of value is being discussed. I'll definitely concentrate my efforts on listening more now than talking. I live very close to the CT casinos and have spent lots of hours (as of late) tracking and minimal betting while refining my own approach (with the NOR philosophy) to play this game successfully. Good luck to you, Ed

I learned that you can't force OTB4L, no matter how talented you are. The other systems were created for just that reason. I trusted that simply following Ellis would pay for my session. We are all responsible for ourselves in the casino. I enjoyed talking with everyone and getting their take on things. My take on that day is to keep it simple and bet what you see. We are all grown ups here with our own opinions. I think that there seems to be a lot of focus on OTB4L. It does win often but not always... We are on this site to learn from each other and of course the master. Sharing what we know, no matter how we acquired it is why I joined and purchased NOR in the first place. If I do decide to register for the seminar (as you did) I wouldn't mind helping out the other players on this forum who may not have the $$$ to partake. That's just the way I am. I was raised to share and am happy to do so

I did pay for the play session, other wise I would'nt have commented. It was an expensive day. IMO you are just trying to defend BTC . I get that. I just think that you came across judge mental and too harsh. No worries - Ellis & Keith are big boys with tough skin. Good luck, Ed

" ABOUT RUEBELS POST " i have invested a lot of money in this bac club.i have been to vegas and i have purchased everything that ellis has developed.also been to sands clinic,gas alone cost me $150.today i looked below and noticed 92 members have read this thread.so why are there only 12 members signed up for saturday?your getting e.clifton davis for 4.5 hours @ $28.88 per hour.are you guys serious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i made $1000 bucks @ the sands,if the rest of you out there are only making minimum wage or unemployed and can't afford $130 for this SATURDAY you should not be GAMBLING take your money to church on sunday and say a prayer for yourself! i hope only that those who attend get to read and post about it.i'm sick and tired of the free loaders!any questions. I was at Sands too and left $400 by simply following Ellis in the early shoes! 2 losing shoes in a row really sucked. Changed my perspective for the whole day and put a very bad taste in my mouth. But I manned up and accepted the loss as a learning experience to ALWAYS play your own game! So please calm down RUEBUL and just be grateful for your win that day. You're coming across as a bully which is not what anyone wants to hear or deal with!!!

Just part of their day to day practice of keeping the odds in their favor. Confusion ALWAYS favors the casino!!!! That's why they blast music, have crazy patterned carpeting and try to keep us in those seats as long as they can. We are comped by the casino by time we play, not the money won or lost. They know that too much time and confusion leads to profits for them.

I've asked both Keith and Ellis to put me in touch with CT players. Haven't had anyone contact me yet. I have free time to discuss our experiences and play in the casinos. Please reach out to me and let me know if you're interested in meeting another NOR player, Ed

Hey Dark, Thanks for the shout out. I think of the casino as a snake pit - lose your focus for one second and they will bite you!!! They are always willing to accept our bets. Its our job to figure out how to win in THEIR HOUSE. Its their job to take our money. Simple logic - GET their chips before they get yours!!!!

Was my mistake. Just the way Mohegan turns them over (both at once). Sorry to waste your time. Can you put me in touch with some CT NOR players? Work has slowed down again and I have more time to spend in the Casinos. It would be nice to meet some NOR players around here . Thanks, Ed

Yes I agree. We need to increase our odds by knowing when to start betting and how to make sure that we are using the correct system from our very first bet. I just found out that both CT casinos use pre shuffeled cards. I had no idea! They always had the cards face down, so I assumed that they were regular cards. My mistake. Something that I never would have looked at if not for our Sands trip. Ellis, I have watched how both casinos deal now - Mohegan deals 2 consecutive cards to the player first and then 2 to the banker side. Foxwoods - deals 1 to the player side and 1 to the banker side and so on. In your opinion does this matter? I seem to have a tougher time in Foxwoods, would love to have your thoughts on this, Ed

Hi Ellis, Should have, could have & would have are all things that we say many times in the casino. Losing our first couple of shoes sucked. It certainly through me for a loop! I had to try and rebuild my confidence. Live action is supposed to separate the "Pros" from the average players. Thanks for manning up and admitting to your mistakes. That in itself should be a lesson to us all!!! After all, we are here to learn how to "Beat the Casino" Ed

He is giving you the harsh truth. I played with him, Keith, Ellis & other players on Saturday at Sands in PA. He does gamble but he knows what works for him and more importantly he knows how to win! Each of us have to face the moment of truth and bet our money on the unknown. After all that's what gambling is. If you are really ready to give this your all, then you need to find what works best for you. This is one of the toughest ways out there to make money. I wish that I had a forum like this to read when I started. Do your homework, practice your money management. Know your stuff before you head to the casino. Always mentally prepare yourself to play. Turn of your cell phone and concentrate on your task at hand to win money or control your losses. Learn to trust your gut and skip bets that you don't know. Let the shoe come to you. Walk away from the bad shoes and negative people Stay positive! NEVER GO ALL IN!!! I hope this helps, Ed

Hey Dark, Anything is possible but you need money and DISCIPLINE to win!!! I tried playing this game full time in A.C. Tough to do on a daily basis. Lots of highs & lows. Get your head wrapped around an easily achievable goal first. My advice is to learn to win at the $10 tables first if you have them available. Try to win your first 5 units - take a break, review how you won/lost and think about how you could have done it better. MONEY MANAGEMENT IS KEY!!! ASK YOURSELF THESE QUESTIONS : Was it a fight? Am I thinking and seeing things clearly in this casino? Which system would have worked best? Always be aware of your surroundings and what's going on in the shoe. Sometimes you can win by simply betting with or against other players. Stay focused and good luck, Ed

Hi guys, I was there too. My experience was a lot of fun, exciting & very educational in watching what happens to even the best players at any given time in the live casino. This particular trip to this (new to me) casino reminded me once again that THE CASINOS AREN"T YOUR FRIEND. They will use every trick in the book to get your hard earned money!!! ITS OUR JOB TO BEAT THEM AT THEIR OWN GAME. The Sands used pre-shuffeled cards, (my first experience with them)- made it tough to get any real consistency for prolonged periods in the shoe. Very tough to choose the correct system with confidence. We were all scratching our heads at one point or another - EVEN ELLIS - LOL. Keith had an easier time of it, but then again he had pretty Vicky by his side . The NOR approach works just fine as long as you have the discipline to use it properly! Although I was one of the players who left money there, the overall experience was worth it. There were some winning shoes as well which I didn't bet in due to bank roll protection and higher table limits that I don't play at. I wouldn't have traded this experience of talking shop with the "Pros" in live action for anything. Lunch was great - Thanks Keith and Vicky. A couple of suggestions for the next trip would be to casually meet first, discuss bank rolls, money management and strategy. We should reserve our own tables and try to play as group through out the day. Thanks again and hope to see you all again real soon, Ed

Hi Ellis, I should have registered sooner. I thought it was an open session. I plan on being there tomorrow to at least observe and hopefully play with the group. If that is an issue - please let me know. Thanks and I look forward to meeting you tomorrow, Ed Gonsalves

Thanks - I'm coming to Sands on Saturday to watch you play Ed

Hi, I'm planning to go to Sands casino in Bethlehem PA. On Saturday - just wondering if any Ct NOR players Would like to go. Should be fun and informative! Please let me know, Ed

Mode 3 is only one bet on the run- win or lose, you should go back to mode 2 - 1,2,3 4. You are trying to protect your bankroll and limit your risk. A. It really doesn’t matter much if you make your first OTR a 0 bet after losing a 1,2. If your 0 won you are in Mode 2. If it lost you are in Mode 3. But only use this device when you have no idea of Mode.

In S40 you only go on the run after losing 2 bets in a row, if your first bet loses - you have now lost 3 in a row which puts you in mode 3. You only bet 1 time in mode 3 in S40

Good Morning Ellis, Thanks for your quick reply If you have the time to review those 2 shoes, could you tell me what system you would use? I'm very cautious with my money management and want to make the best decisions while progressing my bets. Thanks, Ed

Good morning to ALL, I want to share my first experience in the live CT casinos using NOR. I purchased the NOR manual on Saturday morning and have reread a bunch of times until it made sense to me. (helpful tip - keep a copy in you car for a quick review whenever you have time and your mind is receptive to learning and grasping this concept.) I've read a whole bunch of threads on here to better understand this APPROACH to Baccarat - VERY HELPFUL, A BIG THANK YOU TO ELLIS and EVERYONE HERE!!! First of all let me state that I'm a seasoned Baccarat player with over six years of experience and hundreds of real live betting shoes under my belt. I've played casinos all over the country including - A.C., Ct, Tunica, Chicago, Council Bluffs & others in the mid west). I WOULD NEVER RECCOMEND A NEW PLAYER TO THIS GAME HEADING TO THE CASINO WITHOUT A TON OF PRACTICE FIRST! With that being said - I headed to Mohegan first, I walked around all of the tables looking for exploitation in the shoes and BAM a perfect SS player shoe with a rowdy table right out of the manual. I paper tracked it from behind and watched as the player side continued to dominate the banker side with a count of 24 to 4. TABLE SELECTION IS A MUST!!! I also waited and watched 4 new tables open up with new cards - (advantage of free time and living only twenty minutes away) It looked like S40 and OTB4L would have done well at all of the tables. I did not bet in any of those shoes just watched for the tracking experience. I grabbed lunch, revisited the newly opened shoes - very typical with a few runs along the way but lots of 1's & 2's in them. Off to Foxwoods I went. Being Columbus day, both casinos were really cooking with about ten full tables each. I studied the 4 active Tote boards at FW and tried to figure out which system and how to play it. Very tricky shoes with no great exploitation that I could see. Again looked like S40 and OTB were the stronger systems to use! I searched for a seat to sit at and practice my scorecard and finally found one at the $10 table and played my first shoe about 2/3rds in. P211211351111 B1113 OTB4L or S40? I only placed one bet and hit it. Great experience in keeping the scorecard and thinking NOR! Next full shoe played B15311414 P131111123132 P3113111522 B22113 (Only placed one bet and won) Great practice but had a tough time deciding on system - Not a bad F shoe but would also somewhat work with OTB4L? I don't mean to ramble but if you read this far -THANKS - any comments and tips on playing theses shoes with the proper systems, modes and money management will be greatly appreciated!!!! GOOD LUCK TO ALL NOR gets an A+ for opening my mind to learning to win at Baccarat! Ed

Thanks Peter, I saw your scorecard on the private forum - Nice job!!!

My brother plays at Hollywood in West Virginia - do you play there?