# Baccarat Forums has a change of heart

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Somebody made the following posts at Baccarat Forums and one of our members forwarded it to me:

"Originally Posted by Bacronin

This is a similar betting system as the Ellis's NOR system, the NOR means N-neutral, O-opposite, and the R for Repeat(Same). He add the OS counts to the mix, if the outcome is O then add +1, if it is a S add -1.

so let say if you have OOSOOSSSOSS that is the running count of +1,+2, +1 +2+3+1 0 +1 0 -1

most of the time, when the count is between +1 0 -1 that is consider Neutral, a see saw action, if the counts goes to +3 or higher it is Opposite dominate and if the counts goes -3 or higher it is Same dominate.

with this running count add into the mix, when the count is +2 +1 0 -1 -2 it is a Neutral so bet the Chop mode, one O then S or Same then Opposite, when the counts gets high then you know what side to follow.

Just my 2 cents.

Whoever this Ellis is, he's a pro! That methodology will certainly work. I bet he makes his living betting. Can you send me any more info on this guy. I never heard of his system??

Thanks,

Bacronin..

Bacronin,

The only thing that bothers me about Ellis's NOR system is that you may miss out on some precious wins waiting for the count to get to +3 or -3. Other than that, it is a sound concept! "

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I can't reply because I'm banned at BF as a competitor.

Would one of you please volunteer to reply at BF for me??? I think the BF thread is titled "Bet Selection" or some such.

"Close guys but no cigar!

Ellis is alive and well teaching at his own forum beatthecasino.com previously known many years ago as Winning Ways, the oldest Baccarat Forum on the internet.

Ellis teaches NOR for standard cards (when the cards originally came to the table in 8 individual boxed card order decks and were prepped right at the table in front of you.)

But also Ellis includes NB both PvB and OvR especially designed for preshuffled cards like they use exclusively in Singapore, also in Vegas at the center isle of tables at Gold Coast among other casinos throughout the land. Here, the cards come to the table in an 8 deck preshuffled bundle. The two game types produce vastly different results.

This combination is said by many experts to be the best way the game can be played. But it is far more detailed than eluded to here.

You can also read about the playing exploits of Ellis posted in lengthy but interesting articles posted by Virtuoid at ImSpirit who followed and recorded Ellis's play for 4 tables at two casinos in AC.

Ellis played 6 shoes to a 26% Player Advantage which is probably a world record for 6 shoes.

But you can't learn his methods second hand or by hearsay. It is far better to learn in detail right from the horses mouth. Many of Ellis's players have become professionals like he has been for 30 years.

Ellis charges a bit to teach you but it is no more than the average player loses every day he plays. And most make their tuition back on their first outing. What you need to join is the Private Baccarat Forum at beatthecasino.com

You get a NOR manual download and you get all your questions answered along with endless playing tips on the private forum complete with sample games. It is also a great place to find expert playing partners.

If you are going to play this game for money, this is the way to go. Learn it directly from the best in the world.

BTW, Ellis is an extremely conservative player. For instance his highest bet in the above 6 shoes was a single 4 unit bet. Most of the time he was betting 1 unit. A 26% P.A. over 6 shoes is as good as this game can be played. Check out your own P.A.s and you'll soon see. P.A. is money won/money bet also known as ROI."

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OK guys, we certainly don't want 2 people posting the same post over there so who will volunteer? I want you to copy my reply and post it under your own user name at BF

I'm sure my reply will draw a lot of snotty remarks at BF but that is normal for the low lifes that reside at BF. But also it will get us some new members. Many at BF really want to learn how to win but you certainly can't learn anything useful from that ignorant crowd. They have no leader. Their moderator doesn't play and therefore doesn't know a good post from a bad post. It is a free for all over there and they litterally have the blind leading the blind.

Edited by Guest
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Hi Uncle Ellis,

I am very honored to have just posted your wise reply at BF in 'Eagleman44 Bet Selection' thread.

Hope it would help to reach out to the 'Blinds' there.

Uncle Ellis, hope Keith and you can come to Malaysia, Singapore and Macau soon.

God Bless you all.

JohnMalaysia

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• Baccarat Hall of Fame Member
Hi Uncle Ellis,

I am very honored to have just posted your wise reply at BF in 'Eagleman44 Bet Selection' thread.

Hope it would help to reach out to the 'Blinds' there.

read my last post as Bac at BF...THIS IS THE STUPIDEST GAME of Charades i have ever played...No Wonder!

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Hi Uncle Ellis,

I am very honored to have just posted your wise reply at BF in 'Eagleman44 Bet Selection' thread.

Hope it would help to reach out to the 'Blinds' there.

read my last post as Bac at BF...THIS IS THE STUPIDEST GAME of Charades i have ever played...No Wonder!

kachatz, I can't because I'm banned there but copy it right here. I'm always interested in what you have to say.

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Keith recently told me of a guy being sued \$70,000 for copyright infringement for posting a picture he got from the internet.

BF steals entire systems and posts them at their sight all the time. They have no idea of how ripe they are for a major class action infringement lawsuit. The US Government is finally cracking down on the internet. BF thinks the internet is immune. Ha! Fortunately, none of the systems they post work. Which is all the more reason that somebody should sue them.

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• Baccarat Hall of Fame Member

Not so internet savvy i can do that, just copy and paste between forums? Seems like a job for the MVS/AD superman, not me...

I just commented on BF that PVB, OvR, OT4BL vTBL are all discussed here all the time, and they are ( sometimes names differently, like S40 or F...this I did NOT discuss!) the basis of all baccarat decisions...what's left is MM

Daytrader ( who is on this forum) asked if NOR really works, and any "changes/tweaks" worthwhile...I responded how to "keep track"

BO_DA said it all...he is the king of Canada, becausse of NOR...Witchygal comments that even in Singapore, with preshuffled cards, it is tough to win, but she can...Malaysia John weighs in, and he is ready to swear on a stack of ?? that it's the cat's meow...players all over the world are wising-up to it...

--Sue someone over something posted on the internet? HOW DEEP IS YOUR VALLEY?? H0W MUCH MONEY YOU GOT?

LET'S JUST ALL AGREE...These forums are speculative in nature, nobody guaranteed anything...

Best we can all do is pick a BS/MM/stop win/stop loss/trigger/ yada, yada best suits our personality and BR.

Then, let the games begin.

So far, you make the most sense out of it all, so I am backing the pointspread, and fading the wannabe's....things change, and so will I.

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If Ellis' message doesn't get posted up, let me know and I'll cut/paste it over there.

As my name is mud on BF anyway, it won't matter much how they react.

As most of you have seen, posting on BF is pretty much a waste of time and effort for a variety of reasons.

MVS

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• Baccarat Hall of Fame Member

What? No coin collection????

HA!

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If Ellis' message doesn't get posted up, let me know and I'll cut/paste it over there.

As my name is mud on BF anyway, it won't matter much how they react.

As most of you have seen, posting on BF is pretty much a waste of time and effort for a variety of reasons.

MVS

Thanks MVS. I suspect John M got it posted at BF OK if someone could just verify.

We must'nt knock BF too much as they are a great source of humor in these days when humor is a scarcity.

But I'll never forget when their exleader Garnabby came all the way from Canada to watch us play at Gold Coast, Vegas only to see us absolutely kill the shoe with like a 90% P.A. He got laughed out of town and then the next day posted at BF and everywhere else that we had cheated. Then when somebody told him there is no way to cheat in Baccarat he claimed he was never even there - after introducing himself to 15 of us and standing right behind us at Gold Coast for the whole shoe. Par for the course for BF.

But obviously they have some new people over there who are interested in us and well they should be. But nobody there will tell them how to contact us. That's a no no over there as you well know.

It's like Taj 2 when Archer (Jimske) watches me win \$10,000 in a half hour W/O betting over \$200 and then posts at ImSpirit that I lost. Then when confronted he claimed it must have been a different Archer. At least he is well named. I agree with Virtuoid - the guy is a complete basket case. It seems contagious over there at BF.

But will somebody please confirm that my post made it through over there and actually got posted. Thanks in advance.

Edited by Guest
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katchatz, cutting and pasting is as simple as pie, even for me who is about the world's worst with computers. You can do the whole thing right on your keyboard.

Just highlight what you want to copy from anywhere. Hit Ctrl and C at the same time. That copies it to your wordpad. Then go to where you want to paste it and simply hit Ctrl and V at the same time. Voila, there it is.

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But will somebody please confirm that my post made it through over there and actually got posted. Thanks in advance.

Chief,

Yep, just read it this morning. Your BTC link was removed by "Mike" but the message is there!

The conversations are just mind numbing now.

MVS (must run out and buy a few thousand rolls of coins to rummage through)

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Chief,

Yep, just read it this morning. Your BTC link was removed by "Mike" but the message is there!

The conversations are just mind numbing now.

MVS (must run out and buy a few thousand rolls of coins to rummage through)

That figures! Maybe I should post my email address??? It's just that there are some real weirdos over there.

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