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Why people lose so much money playing Baccarat, until they learn NOR

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  • Baccarat Hall of Fame Member


Thought it was a good time to step back from NOR " mechanics" / how to implement this method of play to "squish the casino", and turn our thoughts to some very simple, timeless " truisms" about why people keep losing so much money, in such a simple game!!!

I'll start with reason # 1, and hope all of you will chime in with your own frequently-observed reasons why most players go down in flames...



Can you blame them for thinking this?

Of course not! Weren't we all taught this in about the 5th grade? Flip a coin over-and-over, and it will likely land on one side as often as the other side...

And YES, this is true, the more times you flip a coin....

But, can we all agree that in a small # of coin-flips, if 100 of us stood side by side, we would get a great disparity of results flipping that coin 10 times each??

The first person might get this result: HHHHHTTTTT ( H=heads, T= Tails)

The next Person in line might get this result: THTHHHTHHT ( same coin...)

And the next person: TTTHTHTHTH

And so on, and so on...

The lesson learned is this....In a relatively small sample size ( like one BAC shoe being played in Mississippi, while another is played at the same time in Brisbane, and still another in Macau...) it is almost assured that the results will be very different!!

So guess what, if each of those shoes were played the exact same way, with no regard for what is happening right before your eyes, think there would be more losers than winners??


So, reason #1 BAC is so profitable to the Casino is most people simply cannot get over their 5th grade " math lesson" ...

Reason #2? #3?

Please chime in with your thoughts...will help us all understand why NOR works...

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  • Baccarat Hall of Fame Member


I have observed over and over ' undercapitalized' players coming into the game, hoping to " double their money" , or with some such abstract $$-win objective.

If only they realized that without a good grasp of money management, and a bankroll size proportionate to their bet size, achievement of their goal is generally very elusive...especially if they do not have a good grasp of how to " read" the shoe at hand ( see reason #1 above)

In our NOR manual, and throughout the discussion forums, their have been some very good, insightful discussions of Stop-Win and Stop-Loss objectives , as well as countless discussions of betting progressions.

From time to time, I will take the opportunity to once again search out these topics and comb through the information being debated to establish realistic shoe/ session/ and even trip objectives before I enter the casino and begin play.

Through many years of playing BAC ( and other casino games), to me, the two hardest things are:

A) quitting when you are losing, and hoping that the chance of bankroll recoupement Is " right around the corner"

B) quitting when you have achieved your win- objective, because you suddenly are overwhelmed by the revelation that you have finally " cracked the code" to unlocking the Casino's vaults...

One thing I know for sure, many times I have observed a player win a goodly sum of $$, only to give it all back shortly thereafter. Sound familiar?

And when I see a player lose their entire bankroll, I know that their first visit to the ATM will generally not be their last, and when all is said and done ,they likely have not brought along a big enough shovel to dig the hole they are creating for themselves...

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When I started playing there were no ATMs in casinos and no banks in casino towns. I think both are a disservice to serious players and only a service to party players.

I have NEVER used an ATM machine or casino credit or visited a bank in a casino town. I never take a marker. This just does not fit my impression of serious professional play. I bring whatever cash I bring to a casino. In 30 years I have never gone broke on a casino trip. Plus, this helps you stay under the radar. A word to the wise. The whole idea is to get back home safe and sound with more money than you left home with. If so, you are a winner. If not.....

But your money should be playing a hard to get role. And you need to play within the bank roll in your pocket or wherever. And you need to always know exactly where you stand.

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  • 4 weeks later...

A lot of people out there hate me. This is mostly caused by my exposing the BJ card counting gurus for the frauds they are.

But some because they can't follow simple Baccarat instructions or because NOR involves work.

And some are simply jealous.

Here is a post just posted by "Tom" at ImSpirit. I doubt they will let me reply. Anybody want to reply? I'll see if I can provide a link.


Ellis it is a bunch of horseshit! Baccarat can not be beat. You guys all end up divorced lonely in a game what is 50-50. You see what you want to see. All systems works for a while. Even an ape can win at baccarat. Con artist Ellis. You have no money left Ellis, IF you had you would look a bit better. You look like miserable gambler. LOL"

In your reply, you might make use of the fact that I just turned 73, I'm still a scratch golfer, I beat the kids at 8 ball, and my army uniform still fits perfectly. And most of my students who stick it out, win and often post their shoes.

Rats, I don't think my link will work. But if you want to reply email me


and I will forward their email to you and hopefully the link will then work

or maybe one of you sharper guys can post a link that will work. Here is my attempt:

[New comment] Ellis' NOR Seminar in PA and Field Trip to AC‏


ImSpirit (comment-reply@wordpress.com)

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5:52 AM

To: ellis_858@hotmail.com

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Tom commented on Ellis' NOR Seminar in PA and Field Trip to AC.

in response to virtuoid:

As I had briefly relayed in my previous two posts (Shadowing Ellis and Ellis and I Take on Atlantic City), Ellis convincingly demonstrated to me with real money in live play that he can consistently win at baccarat. Thanks to him, I am a little wealthier today in terms of chips, experience, and perspective. At […]


Ellis it is a bunch of horseshit! Baccarat can not be beat. You guys all end up divorced lonely in a game what is 50-50. You see what you want to see. All systems works for a while. Even an ape can win at baccarat. Con artist Ellis. You have no money left Ellis, IF you had you would look a bit better. You look like miserable gambler. LOL

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Thanks for flying with WordPress.com

No, rats, nothing in there seemed to work but email me or post a link that WILL work.

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