Players in Tunica MS area

[godsend]

I am planning on hitting the tables at Goldstrike in Tunica and i would love if a more experienced member could be there to play beside me.

This will be my first visit since purchasing NOR so I'm hoping that all my practice will pay off.

I would like to go any day between 7/22/13 and 7/24/13 so if anyone wants to join me let me know...if not i will post a trip report when i get back.

(i live in memphis so tunica is only a 30 minute drive away)

[Guest]

I am planning on hitting the tables at Goldstrike in Tunica and i would love if a more experienced member could be there to play beside me.

This will be my first visit since purchasing NOR so I'm hoping that all my practice will pay off.

I would like to go any day between 7/22/13 and 7/24/13 so if anyone wants to join me let me know...if not i will post a trip report when i get back.

(i live in memphis so tunica is only a 30 minute drive away)

I can't make it this time but maybe next time.

But meanwhile let me give you a strong tip for Gold Strike.

The dealers open tables in the morning usually one at a time. They prep new cards right there at the table before starting that table - takes about 20 minutes. Their standard card prep strongly favors OTB4L. And by the time you've finished 2 or 3 shoes they are opening another table and you can start all over again. Sometimes the new shoes favor S40 even more but never F.

I used this tip to beat that casino every time for 3 years.

Yes, let us know how you do.

[godsend]

OK guys, i went to the casino yesterday and today and had dismal results. Yesterday my first 2 shoes were excellent, otb4l and s40, went up 19 units on the first one and 16 on the second quit both shoes early as i am in the stages of building my bankroll. I had a goal to play this way until i got my bankroll up to 100 units. But after my first 2 shoes the next 4 drained 30 of the 35 units i made. Tried it again today on the advice of Ellis going in the morning and sure enough as i arrived there was one table open 8 hands in and was all 2's and one 1. So i went in at otb4l and lost my first bet, won the second then lost 3iar bringing my total to -6. shoe results below...

Please guys help a fellow BTC member out with some bankroll building tips....or do i just have bad luck?

shoe #1

p112343213

b112122131231

b3113

shoe #2

p11121211111211111

b1111415

shoe #3

p32127113

p1112621111111

b14132144

p62111

shoe #4

b23112101

b21121

shoe #5

b112141212212

p2341

[Guest]

Hang on godsend, I'm going over your shoes. A lot of interuptions here lately.

Meanwhile here is what I'd like to know. You are talking about 7 shoes but posted only 5. Do you have the others? Also I need to know which ones you posted relative to new cards. For instance, are these all Saturday shoes and the first 5 shoes at the same table?

Also, are you trying to play just from your manual? Or have you studied the forum as well? The reason I ask is that you've never posted on the forum except here on this thread. I'm trying to get a better grasp of your skill level.

Again, sorry I couldn't be there - you'd probably have your 100 units by now.

Correct, the first two you posted are S40 but the third starts OTB4L. I'd like to know if the 3rd shoe you posted is actually the 3rd shoe at the same new table???

I'm trying to figure out if you were playing before you were ready.

But we will go over all your shoes in detail.

One last thing: On your first shoe what play numbers did you start and finish at?

[godsend]

Meanwhile here is what I'd like to know. You are talking about 7 shoes but posted only 5. Do you have the others? Also I need to know which ones you posted relative to new cards. For instance, are these all Saturday shoes and the first 5 shoes at the same table?

No i don't have the other 2 shoes i seem to have misplaced the scorecards and all 5 of these shoes are from last Wednesday night the 24th. Shoes #1, #3, and #5 were on the same table and #2 and #4 were from the same table

Also, are you trying to play just from your manual? Or have you studied the forum as well? The reason I ask is that you've never posted on the forum except here on this thread. I'm trying to get a better grasp of your skill level.

Yes i have studied the forum i have been playing NOR+ (read the complete thread 3 times and have completed a total of 45 live shoes from Dublinbet and LuckyLiveCasino with excellent results)

Correct, the first two you posted are S40 but the third starts OTB4L. I'd like to know if the 3rd shoe you posted is actually the 3rd shoe at the same new table???

The first and third shoes were played at the same table. I actually played the first shoe otb4l should it have been played s40?

One last thing: On your first shoe what play numbers did you start and finish at?

On the first shoe i started at play 5 and ended on play 47

[Guest]

No i don't have the other 2 shoes i seem to have misplaced the scorecards and all 5 of these shoes are from last Wednesday night the 24th. Shoes #1, #3, and #5 were on the same table and #2 and #4 were from the same table.

OK, so on Wednesday night you decided to defy my tips and play old cards at night. That's fine, just usually quite a bit more challenging. I seldom play night Bac at Goldstrike/Horseshoe because the shoes can be virtually anything. Plus the night pit boss is always screwing with the shuffle machine timers and a table can go from pure chop to pure streak next shoe. BUT their nighttime 2 deck BJ game is a pushover for me. But if I see a good highly biased Bac tote board while looking for a BJ game, I'll give it a shot.

But also you were going back and fourth between 2 tables, weren't you? That is panic mode! That's what the crowd does. Not us. We don't leave a good table until it proves otherwise. We sit their and wait for the next shoe. That is something you can't learn practicing on the internet. Don't get me wrong, internet practice is fine insofaras how to determine system and how to play shoes. But it does not prepare you for table selection/casino strategy. That is something you can only learn in casinos. Starting at play 5 is fine! You certainly don't want to start any earlier with nightime play - too dangerous.

Yes i have studied the forum i have been playing NOR+ (read the complete thread 3 times and have completed a total of 45 live shoes from Dublinbet and LuckyLiveCasino with excellent results

OK excellent! But then, how did you screw up the first 2 shoes??? 35 units is good but it should have been 60! Look godsend, we all want to be conservative. We are already the most conservative players in the casino. But, when we get those "godsend" shoes where we hit +20 U1D2 within the first 2 columns, it is our DUTY to go for +30 because we see such shoes so rarely. We MUST take advantage of godsend shoes.

So OK, you started the first shoe at play 5 with OTB4L Mode 3 per your NOR+ instruction, right. That puts you at +20 at play 38 W/O a single losing 3 bet - if you played right. That early +20 is screaming at you to keep going. Where you quit at play 48 you were at +24 still with NO losing 3 bets. Why would you get up and leave a known quantity only to sit down at an unknown quantity. You had an easy +30 going - maybe more.

So OK you got lucky and sat down to a perfect S40 game. That was pure luck! So, OK, again starting at play 5 with S40 Mode 2 per your NOR+ instruction, this time you hit +20 at play 34 !!! And you quit!!! WHY? I don't exaggerate at all when I say you should have been at +60 at least!

OK +100 units is a good goal. BUT you are not going to get there quitting godsend shoes in the middle of the shoe just to go and find some unknown condition. You don't trade a KNOWN condition for an UNKNOWN condition. See that?

OK shoe 3: That is your first real challenge - BUT only because you changed tables from a godsend table to an unknown.

OK, I happened to start at play 3. It starts out looking OTB4L M3 BUT when you win your 4 bet at play 14 you needed to note that at that point you are looking at 10 Players vs 4 Banks. That is much greater than 2 to 1 so you need to switch to F2 then and there. See that? F2 because of your losing 3 bet back at play 13. Ok, you do get to a 5 bet at play 36 but other than that and playing your Modes correctly, you hit +20 at play 64 - far too late in the shoe to continue.

So now, you should be at +80 or more less a few commission units.

The first and third shoes were played at the same table. I actually played the first shoe otb4l should it have been played s40?

No, absolutely not! Didn't mean to infer otherwise. It is perfect OTB4L M3 - you never lose a 3. I think you said you had +19 at play 47, starting at play 5. If so your play was perfect! Your mistake was quitting.

OK, the 4th shoe, OTB4L M3 you probably started too late and should have quit after either of the losing 1,2s to maintain a + score and protect your 80 units.

I happened to automatically start at play 2 per my usual so I had enough units to ride out the 10iar. I won the 4 at the 6th circle switching me to mode 2 and lost the 2,3 but won the 4,2 at the 9th and 10th play and then the 1 on the Bank side putting me at +6, finishing at +9 where you quit at play 27.

But this brings up a question???

Guys, I'm thinking that in both S40 and OTB4L that whenever we win our OTR bets but then lose our first ATR bet (sorta rare) that should automatically throw us into Mode 1. That way we are on off on off a long run until it ends. Gets our bets down low real quick and keeps them low. Not that we see that many 9+s but that way we make some money on the darn things rather than break even. Plus we retain our advantage of winning our ATR bet half the time when the run ends. What do you think? I sorta like it. In this case it would have improved my score by one unit.

Now the 5th shoe - such as it was - only 30 plays. Starting at play 3 (for a change) with book NOR+OTB4LM3 (obvious) I hit +13 at play 30 W/O a losing 3 bet, well on my way to an easy +20. That would have put me well over +100 for the trip. godsend, where were you that simple shoe???

godsend, I don't mean to be hard on you esp. after a losing trip - that was punishment enough. But, would you really rather that I be soft and say its OK??? It is NOT OK.

But godsend, I think you are a victim of the bad luck of starting off in the casino with 2 shoes from heaven. I hate it when that happens to a new player. Makes them over confident - they stop paying attention to detail - forget table selection - constantly changing tables for no reason - jump up from winning tables. THAT is not us. We RARELY get great shoes. We are used to struggling. It is not you against them. It is you against you.

So OK, NOW you go in the morning and get stomped out the first shoe. Big Whip! Go home! You are in no frame of mind to play any more that day. Hey, I don't always win 20 in a row - nobody does! We all have our fair share of losing shoes no matter how much attention we pay to good table selection. But we are used to rebounding big time. You haven't had that experience yet - but you will! Because you have the guts to try.

But here is the thing: that last day SHOULD have been -6 units from 105 - Shouldn't it have. You totally missed F in the 3rd shoe - didn't you. Stay alert! You are not a regular anymore - you know what you're doing. You had a misstep. Fine, learn from it.

What is this bit about being a loner??? I want to see you joining in on the forum. Make some friends, learn some tricks of the trade. Find some players to play with - some good ones that will keep you on the straight and narrow.

GUYS! Girls! How about a little help here. godsend needs you! And Gold Strike is arguably the best casino in the world. Regular cards - no cheating - easy comps - great buffets! I've had 20 wins in a row there several times playing right by the book - So can you! It's a hell of a lot easier than Vegas these days. They have free bus service from the Memphis airport. Lots of casinos but Goldstrike/Horseshoe is best!

godsend, hang in there. You've put a lot of effort in. It will pay off soon enough. JOIN in on the forum on the popular threads.

[gman72]

Guys, I'm thinking that in both S40 and OTB4L that whenever we win our OTR bets but then lose our first ATR bet (sorta rare) that should automatically throw us into Mode 1. That way we are on off on off a long run until it ends. Gets our bets down low real quick and keeps them low. Not that we see that many 9+s but that way we make some money on the darn things rather than break even. Plus we retain our advantage of winning our ATR bet half the time when the run ends. What do you think? I sorta like it. In this case it would have improved my score by one unit.

This was great piece of information stuck in the middle of the last post by Ellis. I just wanted to stick it out here on its own to emphasize. I'm still only focusing on M2/M3 but when I'm ready to incorporate M1 into my play, these are the tips I want to study. (It's going in the binder).

[bluetri]

I agree Gman...I liked that lil tid bit myself...

[gman72]

Here are Shoes #1,2,3 played out on the scorecard. I seem to off by 1 unit on each shoe in relation to the play narration by Ellis. Not sure where I'm going slightly wrong from his play, but I believe I am close. Hope this helps others see the play, it sure helps me to practice these shoes out.

[Guest]

Here are Shoes #1,2,3 played out on the scorecard. I seem to off by 1 unit on each shoe in relation to the play narration by Ellis. Not sure where I'm going slightly wrong from his play, but I believe I am close. Hope this helps others see the play, it sure helps me to practice these shoes out

gman, I started the first shoe OTB4L so I won the first bet.

The second shoe your bet at play 50 should have been 2.

That puts us square for those 2.

[gman72]

gman, I started the first shoe OTB4L so I won the first bet.

The second shoe your bet at play 50 should have been 2.

That puts us square for those 2.

Oops! Both of those were dumb mistakes by me. The plus side, I only made 2 small mistakes.

[gman72]

The second shoe your bet at play 50 should have been 2.

QUOTE]

For anyone following along, that was a mistake at play #30 in the second shoe. The bet should have been a 2 not a 1. Ellis, thanks for reviewing the shoes.

[godsend]

wow ellis, you really tore me a new one but it was what i needed to hear.

took another trip to GS this morning with GREAT results played 2 full shoes and the first column of the third shoe (loss track of time had to leave) for a total of 49 units profit!!

thanks to everyone who has took time out to go over my shoes and help with my game it is much appreciated.

shoe #1

p161241131

p14121111215

p1311262211

b111113

OK, i walked in at play 9 and started and play 12 at otb4l m3 and it lasted until play 32 where i lost my first 3bet, i go otr winning the 4bet so i go to otb4l m2 and m2 lasted me the rest of the shoe until play 61 where i utilized the half decade rule and quit at 21 units!!

shoe #2

p112341233

b42112221131

b12111321211121

p4133

shoe 2 i started at play 3 otb4l m3 and it lasted me until play 46 where i lose my 3bet and leaves me at 17 units down from a peak of 23 units so i decided to not go below 15 units but i did want to keep track of the shoe so...at play 47 i would have went otr losing the 4bet and went to otb4l m2 for the rest of the shoe...so i would have finished at +25 units but i think i did right by quitting at +17 because even though i would have finished at +25 at play 48 i would have went down to +8 and i dont think anyone here would have risked a 6bet at +8 after going down from +23...but i really would like to hear the comments from this shoe

shoe #3

p211323323

i started at play 3 otb4l m3 and lasted the entire column for a quick +11 units had to quit there because i lost track of time.

All in all think this was a pretty good session.

[moneybac]

nice going godsend

[ztomsk]

Guys, I'm thinking that in both S40 and OTB4L that whenever we win our OTR bets but then lose our first ATR bet (sorta rare) that should automatically throw us into Mode 1. That way we are on off on off a long run until it ends. Gets our bets down low real quick and keeps them low. Not that we see that many 9+s but that way we make some money on the darn things rather than break even. Plus we retain our advantage of winning our ATR bet half the time when the run ends. What do you think? I sorta like it. In this case it would have improved my score by one unit.

The single biggest tip that improved my game was using a 2 bet progression ATR in this instance. I do sort of like the on off on too though. Say we lost the second OTR bet (ex 7iar OTB4L). Should we continue on normal play with the same unit bet? Or up it by one unit do you think? I guess it depends how much we are ahead...

[gman72]

shoe #1

p161241131

p14121111215

p1311262211

b111113

OK, i walked in at play 9 and started and play 12 at otb4l m3 and it lasted until play 32 where i lost my first 3bet, i go otr winning the 4bet so i go to otb4l m2 and m2 lasted me the rest of the shoe until play 61 where i utilized the half decade rule and quit at 21 units!!

I played the shoe out for practice. Didn't get to +21 at play 61, I only got to +18, but still a good shoe. If I'd have played with the method of starting after watching 4 events, I'd have gotten in on play 11 and increased my total by +1unit. Thanks for the practice shoe.

[Guest]

I played the shoe out for practice. Didn't get to +21 at play 61, I only got to +18, but still a good shoe. If I'd have played with the method of starting after watching 4 events, I'd have gotten in on play 11 and increased my total by +1unit. Thanks for the practice shoe.

Well played! Both of you!

But we need to get back to shoe 3 because that was the key make or break shoe for godsend's trip. Had she won that one, I'm pretty sure she would have got out of 4 with a small win and then killed 5.

Gman, do you want to take another crack at it first? Hint: Be careful to bet the right side and stay in the right mode.

But once we have that key shoe posted correctly played I want to show you a neat F trick of the trade that could have got us to +20 quicker and safer.

[Guest]

BTW, sorry the site was down yesterday. A bunch of my posts went to never never land so I finally decided to wash my car instead.

[gman72]

Well played! Both of you!

But we need to get back to shoe 3 because that was the key make or break shoe for godsend's trip. Had she won that one, I'm pretty sure she would have got out of 4 with a small win and then killed 5.

Gman, do you want to take another crack at it first? Hint: Be careful to bet the right side and stay in the right mode.

But once we have that key shoe posted correctly played I want to show you a neat F trick of the trade that could have got us to +20 quicker and safer.

Ellis, should I play the shoe #3 in question a different way than I played it in post #9 below? I believe I played the shoe according to your narration in post#6. I started OTB4LM3 and switched to F2. I did this based on what you had posted. I'm still having a harder time being confident to make the system change mid shoe even in my practice. I haven't been overly successful doing that yet. I sometimes feel like I'm overthinking it and being too mechanical. Since godsend indicated that shoes #1 and #3 were at the same table and shoe #1 was a good OTB4L I see that you started shoe #3 the same way, and then making the switch to F2 when the Player side became dominant seems easy in hindsight, I just don't know if I'd have caught it that soon.

[Guest]

Ellis, should I play the shoe #3 in question a different way than I played it in post #9 below? I believe I played the shoe according to your narration in post#6. I started OTB4LM3 and switched to F2. I did this based on what you had posted. I'm still having a harder time being confident to make the system change mid shoe even in my practice. I haven't been overly successful doing that yet. I sometimes feel like I'm overthinking it and being too mechanical. Since godsend indicated that shoes #1 and #3 were at the same table and shoe #1 was a good OTB4L I see that you started shoe #3 the same way, and then making the switch to F2 when the Player side became dominant seems easy in hindsight, I just don't know if I'd have caught it that soon.

Well, it is pretty hard to miss ten Ps vs 4 Bs esp when you aren't sure if you should get off the run in the first place.

Play 15 should be a 2 bet.

Plays 22 and 57 you bet the wrong side.

Fix those and you should hit +20 at play 64. Then either quit or bet 1 on the run until you lose.

We don't want to have mistakes in godsend's key shoe.

[gman72]

Well, it is pretty hard to miss ten Ps vs 4 Bs esp when you aren't sure if you should get off the run in the first place.

Play 15 should be a 2 bet.

Plays 22 and 57 you bet the wrong side.

Fix those and you should hit +20 at play 64. Then either quit or bet 1 on the run until you lose.

We don't want to have mistakes in godsend's key shoe.

Agreed, no mistakes is the goal. Play 15 I made a 1 bet because since I was switching systems, I decided to be more conservative and start my progression over. A 2 bet is correct if continuing the progression at that point.

I have since realized my mistakes at plays 22 and 57. I was making the mistake of not staying OTR(or on the new SS) until a loss. I was following the M2 and M3 rules and only going OTR for 1 bet in M3 and 2 bets if the first won in M2. I think I'll replay the shoe continuing the progression at play 15 and correcting the plays at 22 and 57 and see how I do.

[gman72]

I just tried to replay the shoe and now I am completely confused. I hate to admit this, but I don't think I understand how to properly play a simple F shoe. I don't think I understand the modes as they apply to an F shoe. Would someone who understands be willing to play out and post the scorecard of the shoe #3 in question. If possible would you start playing the shoe in F2 at play 15 so I can compare to what I did. Thanks.

Just when I thought I was getting the hang of things, boom, there goes my confidence. And I was planning a casino trip this weekend. Now I may rethink that, or at least whether I play bac or not.

[Guest]

I just tried to replay the shoe and now I am completely confused. I hate to admit this, but I don't think I understand how to properly play a simple F shoe. I don't think I understand the modes as they apply to an F shoe. Would someone who understands be willing to play out and post the scorecard of the shoe #3 in question. If possible would you start playing the shoe in F2 at play 15 so I can compare to what I did. Thanks.

Just when I thought I was getting the hang of things, boom, there goes my confidence. And I was planning a casino trip this weekend. Now I may rethink that, or at least whether I play bac or not.

gman, I didn't mean to demoralize you. You can do it perfectly well. You ended up with about the same score I did switching to F where I switched - right after your winning 4 bet. But, with U1D2 your bet following a winning 4 is 2, not 1.

But with F, when you correctly switch sides and win your bet on the other side you STAY on that side until you lose a 2 or a 3 depending on what mode you are in. You did the modes right but you only switch back to the original side if you LOST the bet on the other side. If you win it you stay on the other side but you switched back twice even though you won the bet on the other side. It works out almost the same (1 point difference) either way. I just want to get the shoe posted correctly played. It is a simple thing to fix. You certainly don't need to get all demoralized over it.

[Guest]

Agreed, no mistakes is the goal. Play 15 I made a 1 bet because since I was switching systems, I decided to be more conservative and start my progression over. A 2 bet is correct if continuing the progression at that point.

I have since realized my mistakes at plays 22 and 57. I was making the mistake of not staying OTR(or on the new SS) until a loss. I was following the M2 and M3 rules and only going OTR for 1 bet in M3 and 2 bets if the first won in M2. I think I'll replay the shoe continuing the progression at play 15 and correcting the plays at 22 and 57 and see how I do.

Now you're talking! Yes, I understand why you bet 1 instead of 2. Fine BUT let's stick to the progression rules since we are showing a student how the shoe should have been played. And right, when your win your bet on the other side you stay on that side until it loses - which it eventually does. So you ended up betting the wrong side for several plays twice. You switched back even though you won your first bet successfully changing sides.

It turns out that it made little difference in the score, so you got away with it - This time. But it could have been disastrous. You know what you did wrong so please just fix it. You hit +20 either way but lets get the shoe posted correctly played.

[gman72]

Now you're talking! Yes, I understand why you bet 1 instead of 2. Fine BUT let's stick to the progression rules since we are showing a student how the shoe should have been played. And right, when your win your bet on the other side you stay on that side until it loses - which it eventually does. So you ended up betting the wrong side for several plays twice. You switched back even though you won your first bet successfully changing sides.

It turns out that it made little difference in the score, so you got away with it - This time. But it could have been disastrous. You know what you did wrong so please just fix it. You hit +20 either way but lets get the shoe posted correctly played.

Okay, I've regrouped and I think I've got it figured out now. Below is shoe #3 again, played correctly this time I believe. Take a look and let me know what you think.