What is the correct way for this shoe

[dreamer]

Hi, I follow the nor manual and recorded the following shoe in rwn in New York.

B1132113211112

B11211113311121

P5432121

I selected OTB4L mode 3 after play 7 and started to bet at play 8

Here's my betting sequence

BBPBPPPBBPB

play 19 I changed to OTR for the ZZ and bet B

play 20 I switched back to OTB4L mode 3 and do the following bet

BPPPBPPBP

I switched to OTR again at play 29 for the ZZ run and bet P

Play 30, I switched back to OTB4L mode 3

PBBBBPPBP

Play 39, I switched to OTR again and bet P

Play 40, I switched back to OTB4L mode 3 and bet the following sequence

PPBBB

Play 45, I switched to OTR again and bet P

Play 46, I switched back to OTB4L mode 3 and bet the following sequence

BBPPPPBBBPPBP

I did not do any progression and ended up with +3 for this shoe.

This is my first time trying the NOR system after the study. How would you have played this shoe?

Thanks.

[gman72]

Hey dreamer, here's my 2 cents. I would have started in the blind at play #2 using OTB4LM3 with a U1D2 progression (just realized I started at play #3 by mistake, no worries though, scores the same). I only use M3 & M2, not worrying with M1 just yet. This plays out very nicely to a +21 units. I may have been out after play #44 because not sure if I'd have made the 4 bet at play #45 that would have taken me below +10, but you never know.

[Tanpohh]

Hi gman 72,

Your chart is very clear and good for understanding. Have you played real in casino and are you very consistent in the winnings?

Thanks

Tanpohh

[Guest]

Hi gman 72,

Your chart is very clear and good for understanding. Have you played real in casino and are you very consistent in the winnings?

Thanks

Tanpohh

Well gman, this is an easy OTB4L shoe and you are going to win it no matter what. But look at your play #10.

Tanpohh if I were to critique gman's play at this point I'd say he hasn't been a member much longer than you have. He still makes too many mistakes. But he has come up through the ranks quickly and is well on his way to being a formidable Casino player. He will certainly get their attention!

At this point gman is an excellent example of how forgiving NOR is. Ha, but that is not what we are trying to show you. We are trying to show you how good NOR is when played flawlessly. But gman is certainly getting their quickly. And he is the type of player who learns through his mistakes. Just a little more time and a little more practice, he will be playing flawlessly. He's almost there already.

[gman72]

Well gman, this is an easy OTB4L shoe and you are going to win it no matter what. But look at your play #10.

Tanpohh if I were to critique gman's play at this point I'd say he hasn't been a member much longer than you have. He still makes too many mistakes. But he has come up through the ranks quickly and is well on his way to being a formidable Casino player. He will certainly get their attention!

At this point gman is an excellent example of how forgiving NOR is. Ha, but that is not what we are trying to show you. We are trying to show you how good NOR is when played flawlessly. But gman is certainly getting their quickly. And he is the type of player who learns through his mistakes. Just a little more time and a little more practice, he will be playing flawlessly. He's almost there already.

Dang, I hate making those dumb mistakes, and the accountant in me really hates it when I make mistakes with my numbers. I'm moving too fast I think. I need to slow it down just a bit to make sure each play is correct.

And no Tanpohh, I have not played live yet with NOR. I've certainly played a lot in the casinos, just not following NOR. I'm posting on here in my attempt to learn as much as I can and get feedback on how I'm doing, which as you can see Ellis is correct, I still need to do some more practice. But I do appreciate the constructive criticism, I believe most people learn a lot more from their mistakes.

[Guest]

Dang, I hate making those dumb mistakes, and the accountant in me really hates it when I make mistakes with my numbers. I'm moving too fast I think. I need to slow it down just a bit to make sure each play is correct.

And no Tanpohh, I have not played live yet with NOR. I've certainly played a lot in the casinos, just not following NOR. I'm posting on here in my attempt to learn as much as I can and get feedback on how I'm doing, which as you can see Ellis is correct, I still need to do some more practice. But I do appreciate the constructive criticism, I believe most people learn a lot more from their mistakes.

Wow! A man of true character as well! I'll add that fact to my notes! You'll go places gman!

[Sport]

Hey ellis,if you were choosing a shoe to play,would this one have caught your eye. Are there any sample shoes on this site that you would recommend that we should take a look at.i'm going to be in las vegas next weekend and planning on not sleeping so any extra help would be appreciated.where i play mohegan sun and ac they don't have the bac totes.this will be all new to me.thanks hope to meet you at the clinic.

[Guest]

Hey ellis,if you were choosing a shoe to play,would this one have caught your eye. Are there any sample shoes on this site that you would recommend that we should take a look at.i'm going to be in las vegas next weekend and planning on not sleeping so any extra help would be appreciated.where i play mohegan sun and ac they don't have the bac totes.this will be all new to me.thanks hope to meet you at the clinic.

Hi RUEBEL! Look, not sleeping is NOT a good idea. If you don't have a room arranged maybe you can find someone to bunk with at the seminar or maybe someone will volunteer here on the forum before that. But if you haven't found anyone by the start of the seminar, let me know. OH, just to be sure, are you male or female? This game is hard enough when you're on your toes.

Vegas is preshuffled cards now. But this doesn't matter much if you STAY AWAY from the touch games and new cards. The no touch games settle into normal biased cards eventually and very often favor OTB4L or S40. Seldom F. But don't make the mistake of only looking for chop or streak. Look for otb4l. The fewer runs the better.

Yes, this shoe would have caught my eye because double 1's, 2s, 3s and 4s is OTB4LM3. So we had a few ZZs but you can't have everything right and we did OK on the ZZs. This is exactly the kind of shoe we see in Vegas so often these days. (choppy OTB4L). The regulars lose to them big time. But WE beat them big time.

[Sport]

hey ellis,i'm going to be staying downtown.i'm a 60 yr old man.if you could recommend any playing conditions @ such places golden nugget,frontier,binnions!i'll be getting in friday afternoon.thanks: do you guys ever play downtown?

[Guest]

hey ellis,i'm going to be staying downtown.i'm a 60 yr old man.if you could recommend any playing conditions @ such places golden nugget,frontier,binnions!i'll be getting in friday afternoon.thanks: do you guys ever play downtown?

Just a kid, eh? I get in Fri night too. I actually prefer downtown. You'll likely see me at Binions 2 deck BJ game. And golden Nugget is just a short walk even I can make. And the downtown atmosphere is so circus like. Good street entertainment. It is very old school.

Benions is nostalgic for me and a straight up gambling hall with no funny stuff. The most infamous BJ casino in the world. VERY old school.

I'm staying at Harrah's because they are the only place left that will comp me at all and then only for 3 nights out of 5. Some still won't even let me play.

Please feel free to hangout with us. Just don't talk to me while I'm playing BJ.

[kachatz1]

Just a kid, eh? I get in Fri night too. I actually prefer downtown. You'll likely see me at Binions 2 deck BJ game. And golden Nugget is just a short walk even I can make. And the downtown atmosphere is so circus like. Good street entertainment. It is very old school.

Benions is nostalgic for me and a straight up gambling hall with no funny stuff. The most infamous BJ casino in the world. VERY old school.

I'm staying at Harrah's because they are the only place left that will comp me at all and then only for 3 nights out of 5. Some still won't even let me play.

Please feel free to hangout with us. Just don't talk to me while I'm playing BJ.

Ellis makes a very good ,great ( !) , point here.

Lots of BTC newbies want to play alongside those whom they perceive as LongTerm Winners. AND WE WELCOME THAT!

Problem is, they want to talk about each hand, each decision...but that is what our standard card layout is all for. Have a look, it says everything ... you will quickly know what to do next...

One quick glance, you will know the next play...

Learn NOR+, and you will know "WHY"

And you will be dancing in the winners' circle, real fast.

[Tanpohh]

Hi Kachatz1,

Of course, we would like to work alongside with whom we perceive as LongTerm Winners. I have tried and failed in real casino with NOR+ in my first attempt in pre-shuffled shoes, totally break my confident. I think Ellis should combine NOR and Nor+ Manual into one copy so as to ease newbie to have a clear direction.

Tanpohh

[Guest]

Hi Kachatz1,

Of course, we would like to work alongside with whom we perceive as LongTerm Winners. I have tried and failed in real casino with NOR+ in my first attempt in pre-shuffled shoes, totally break my confident. I think Ellis should combine NOR and Nor+ Manual into one copy so as to ease newbie to have a clear direction.

Tanpohh

Tanpohh, I think that is a good idea and a good project for after the August seminar. Such a manual should be prefaced with an instruction on the various game types presented these days and especially "preshuffled" cards.

There is a trick, more an art form, to playing preshuffled cards:

Preshuffled cards are designer formatted. The games are presented in two distinct ways:

The new cards every shoe "touch games" (these shoes can easily go 2 hours or more and skilled players seldom like them) and:

New preshuffled cards on a scheduled basis no touch games:

every 4 hours (not good) Casinos have their reasons for this and such casinos should be avoided

every shift or every 8 hours (better)

once a day (best as far as preshuffled cards go)

The best Bac games are regular cards prepped at the table where new cards come out once a day, usually early in the morning or whenever a Bac pit opens. Such games are quite common elsewhere but not in Vegas. Not anymore!

There is also new regular cards every shoe touch games (formal Baccarat) but such games are usually only found in high stakes parlors these days. (14 player tables) These games are usually quite easy if the idea of high stakes Baccarat doesn't freak you out.

It is best for new players to avoid preshuffled cards altogether but after several shoes with the same cards the designer element disappears and the games become quite normal. These will be the best games in Las Vegas.

Again, I think that preshuffled cards should be illegal everywhere. How do we even know that all the cards are there? How do we know the cards are in random order? Are we supposed to take some machine's word for it or some dealer's or some pit boss paid to beat us? Trust a casino? That is pure crazy!

It is interesting to note that Vegas Bac Profits have declined ever since they got on this preshuffled cards band wagon. THAT should be telling them SOMETHING!

I think new members get the idea in their head that it is going to be easier than it actually is. This becomes particularly true if they luck onto an easy first shoe or two. IT is all about finding the right game in the first place. And that is the part new players tend to skip most often. None of us can beat any and every shoe presented. It just seems that way to new players. BUT, when you pick and choose carefully - that is what determines your win rate. Sometimes your BEST option is DON'T play - at least not at that particular casino at that particular time.

But new players have the attitude they came there to play. NO, that is not professional. The Pro came there to WIN! Even if that sometimes means Don't Play. If he can wait, so can you.