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NOR+ and the pesky 5iar in M3


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I am far from fully seasoned in this, but every shoe I've seen so far in LV seems to trend towards neutral, as Ellis described in some of his earlier comments. Even those that began with a series of repeats moved towards neutral later, or those that began looking heavy in opposites moved more towards neutral. Perhaps this is the result of the engineered shoes?

Anyway, Ellis has remarked on several occasions that with NOR+ all combinations can be beaten in M3 except 5iar. I realize that switching to M2 will fix this problem, but then leave you vulnerable to 4iar. I observed a shoe that I didn't play at Red Rock today where a 5iar was followed by a 4iar followed a bit later by a 5iar followed by yet another 4iar. It would have been a challenging if not impossible shoe due to the rapidly switching modes in NOR+.

With that as background, I have a perhaps naive question: If one is playing NOR+ in M3, would a reasonable strategy to consider be to just do a "virtual" bet at #5 of the 5iar and resume with the next hand? This should reduce the loss and provide another data point for the next decision.

Any thoughts about this possibility? Would it allow you to play NOR+ in M3 without requiring a change in mode?

Thanks,

Greg

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I am far from fully seasoned in this, but every shoe I've seen so far in LV seems to trend towards neutral,

as Ellis described in some of his earlier comments. Even those that began with a series of repeats moved towards neutral later, or those

that began looking heavy in opposites moved more towards neutral. Perhaps this is the result of the engineered shoes?

Anyway, Ellis has remarked on several occasions that with NOR+ all combinations can be beaten in M3 except 5iar. I realize that switching

to M2 will fix this problem, but then leave you vulnerable to 4iar. I observed a shoe that I didn't play at Red Rock today where a 5iar was

followed by a 4iar followed a bit later by a 5iar followed by yet another 4iar. It would have been a challenging if not impossible shoe due

to the rapidly switching modes in NOR+.

With that as background, I have a perhaps naive question: If one is playing NOR+ in M3, would a reasonable strategy to consider be to

just do a "virtual" bet at #5 of the 5iar and resume with the next hand? This should reduce the loss and provide another data point for

the next decision.

Any thoughts about this possibility? Would it allow you to play NOR+ in M3 without requiring a change in mode?

Thanks,

Greg

Yep, and on top of that I've noticed my last several Vegas trips they have way too many 5 iars! -

Way more than the mathematical norm. Vegas is a tough ball game and we need to adjust our risk and goal accordingly.

Many of our best Vegas players go back to 1 unit on their OTR attempts.

But here is an even better solution. We call it a prog within a prog. This is how S40 won 40 shoes iar (in a row):

Your first OTR attempt bet 1 unit. But if that fails, next OTR attempt bet 2 and next time 3 and so forth. When you win,

start over at 1.

You can even stay in M2 to keep your bets lower while simplifying your play. See that? It's a good way to avoid 3 bets as

much as possible and still win.

And BTW, if you are seeing lots of runs, since you are strictly in M2, once you hit your OTR bet - STAY OTR until you lose.

Now, all of a sudden, you'll see you LIKE runs! The longer the better.

Say Thank You Uncle Ellis

You guys saving my best pointers - this one is a keeper.

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Yep, and on top of that I've noticed my last several Vegas trips they have way too many 5 iars! -

Way more than the mathematical norm. Vegas is a tough ball game and we need to adjust our risk and goal accordingly.

Many of our best Vegas players go back to 1 unit on their OTR attempts.

But here is an even better solution. We call it a prog within a prog. This is how S40 won 40 shoes iar (in a row):

Your first OTR attempt bet 1 unit. But if that fails, next OTR attempt bet 2 and next time 3 and so forth. When you win,

start over at 1.

You can even stay in M2 to keep your bets lower while simplifying your play. See that? It's a good way to avoid 3 bets as

much as possible and still win.

And BTW, if you are seeing lots of runs, since you are strictly in M2, once you hit your OTR bet - STAY OTR until you lose.

Now, all of a sudden, you'll see you LIKE runs! The longer the better.

Say Thank You Uncle Ellis

You guys saving my best pointers - this one is a keeper.

Hi Ellis,

Coincidentally, I just came home from playing a shoe

that started PBBPPPBPBPPPBBBPPBBBPPP

and then I got into the game

BBBBBPBBBBBPBBBBPPPPBBPP

I switched to F2 in the second 5iar, but i didn't bet aggressively

enough to get even, but it was close for a while there.

Anyway, my point is that I think your suggestions for newbacplayer will be a big help in my situation.

Thank You !!!

I play at a small local casino, and i think that if I confirmed that I was

a NOR Player , they would continue feeding me 5 iar's and 4 iar's.

The other players (non NOR) would love it.

But, I like the idea of having BTC cards made up, rather than writing the

information on a scorecard.

Wendell

N.B. Please ignore the reference to professional blackjack player on my description. It must have been added

by someone who is misinformed as to the level of my blackjack play instead of NOR Baccarat Player.

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hey wendel, could you put up your nor cards.i would be interested to see what you use.thanks ruebel

Hi Reubel,

I just use a standard casino scorecard and rename the columns.

the column to the left of B is used for O/R, B is renamed to P, T is renamed to P and P is used for score.

In the second set of columns , O/R goes to the right of the score column.

This is all done in pencil at the casino, so it gets a little messy.

Again, to avoid attention , I prefer NOT to bring my own NOR scorecard.

If you wish I can copy the shoe to graph paper and post it .

Wendel

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wendel,if you have the time i would love to see your5 score card.i'm in new york,and play in pa,ac and ct.thanks ruebel

Hi Reubel,

I have been unsuccesful in uploading the completed scorecard, but if you send me your email address

by PM I will e-mail the scorecard to you.

Wendel

N.B. Please ignore the reference to professional blackjack player on my description. It must have been added

by someone who is misinformed as to the level of my blackjack play instead of NOR Baccarat Player.

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Hi Keith & Reubel,

Since I had a chance, I thought I would redo the scan, because the previous scan had clipped off a little bit of the card

The scan came out a little smaller (403 kb vs 419 kb), so I thought I should try and upload 1 more time. And Viola!!!!

it uploaded and is attached(warts & all).

I can still send Keith the original scan if he wants to experiment with it

N.B. Please ignore the reference to professional blackjack player on my description. It must have been added

by someone who is misinformed as to the level of my blackjack play instead of NOR Baccarat Player.

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