OTB4LM3 Enhancement Worked Great VS. OTB4LM3

[bac-cracker]

I would like to know if anyone knows how to play this shoe. The OR count keeps going negative, but it seems like I can't play F as the runs aren't long enough and it keeps switching sides.

B342254

B145322111

P2

I tried to play this OTB4LM3 U1D2 and it didn't make it through the shoe well as the 4 and 5's kept coming one after eachother. Top was +7 and then end -7 if played out the whole shoe

Then I tried the enhancement this way. If OR was -3 and I lost one bet, I went OTR once and then went off.

If I won that OFF bet, I go back to OTB

If I lost that OFF bet, I go back OTR again, if lost this OTR, I go back to OTB...

So basically I have to lose 2 bets to go back to OTB for the 2nd option.

Let me know your thoughts

[bac-cracker]

I also tried this in mode 1 and did a tad bit better around 4 units on the upside. M1 just didn't work too well because of the 4 and 5

As for the Enhancement I did, I got all the way up to +22 at hand 38.

[Guest]

I would like to know if anyone knows how to play this shoe. The OR count keeps going negative, but it seems like I can't play F as the runs aren't long enough and it keeps switching sides.

B342254

B145322111

P2

I tried to play this OTB4LM3 U1D2 and it didn't make it through the shoe well as the 4 and 5's kept coming one after eachother. Top was +7 and then end -7 if played out the whole shoe

Then I tried the enhancement this way. If OR was -3 and I lost one bet, I went OTR once and then went off.

If I won that OFF bet, I go back to OTB

If I lost that OFF bet, I go back OTR again, if lost this OTR, I go back to OTB...

So basically I have to lose 2 bets to go back to OTB for the 2nd option.

Let me know your thoughts

OK, what you are calling "enhancement" we now call Mode 1 in NOR+ jargon. It applies to OTB4L.

Mode 1 simply says go OTR after 1 losing bet instead of 2 (M2) or 3 (M3)

I don't talk about Mode 1 much because it rarely comes up. But you always want to check for Mode 1 signals

in runs following runs shoes which is what you have here. Mode 1 has TWO prequalifyers:

1. You must have more 4+s than 3s (which you have)

2. you must have lost Two 2 bets more than you have won. (which you did at play 15)

You get both signals at play 15.

We made one change to M1. We said once you get ON a run, stay OTR until you lose.

So that is the way I played it.

This is because you are always dealing with a streaky shoe with Mode 1 and

because you get on runs so early.

I'll see if I can post the shoe for you ???

[PeterUK]

Here's my working scorecard using NOR+ OTB4L M3 ... Treating modes for Straight Runs and ZZ separately ...

[Guest]

Here's my working scorecard using NOR+ OTB4L M3 ... Treating modes for Straight Runs and ZZ separately ...

Well that is pretty darn good! You jumped the gun a little starting M1.

You don't lose your 2nd 2 bet and 4s do not exceed 3s until play 15.

However if you already knew the table was streaky, you might do that on purpose.

You bet on the wrong side at play 24 but that didn't make much difference.

But you've got the right idea. Well done!

You beat me on uploading your file...

I'm still trying to get that right.

I know my scan # and I know the file name, "recently changed"

but I can't seem to get the right file name to upload???

[PeterUK]

Thanks Ellis,

I think I lost my first 2 bet at 7 (needed to wait for another), but didn't wait to see more 4s than 3s. At 23 I went OTR... Having lost the OTB bet at 22... Was that incorrect? I was in Mode 1 or I think I should have completed my ZZ run with OTB4L M3 properly (as this was my first encounter of ZZ in this shoe), after finishing a previous M1 Straight OTR at 21.

For my first NOR+ attempt, not bad ;-)

Looking forward to seeing your upload... I used my digital phone camera to scan and send - works quite well... As my scanner is in a box somewhere... Can't be bothered to unpack it!

Peter

[bac-cracker]

Ok got it, semantics again eh... ha

Got it, I was trying M1 on the run til it ending with -3 +3...

And for the "enhancement" I was going on and off run which made my score go high. Please see if you can post the shoe.

I also went back on my other shoes and the M1 seem to work well with the -3 +3 (not the lost 2 2bets more than we have won) - if i wait for this, the shoe may be over or 1/2 or 1/3 way through?

Anyhow, Some of our runs at the local casino isn't that high but there are bunch of tables that have few 5-6ss and 5-7zz so it would really help with those, we will see if it keeps on helping.

OK, what you are calling "enhancement" we now call Mode 1 in NOR+ jargon. It applies to OTB4L.

Mode 1 simply says go OTR after 1 losing bet instead of 2 (M2) or 3 (M3)

I don't talk about Mode 1 much because it rarely comes up. But you always want to check for Mode 1 signals

in runs following runs shoes which is what you have here. Mode 1 has TWO prequalifyers:

1. You must have more 4+s than 3s (which you have)

2. you must have lost Two 2 bets more than you have won. (which you did at play 15)

You get both signals at play 15.

We made one change to M1. We said once you get ON a run, stay OTR until you lose.

So that is the way I played it.

This is because you are always dealing with a streaky shoe with Mode 1 and

because you get on runs so early.

I'll see if I can post the shoe for you ???

[Wendel]

Ok got it, semantics again eh... ha

Got it, I was trying M1 on the run til it ending with -3 +3...

And for the "enhancement" I was going on and off run which made my score go high. Please see if you can post the shoe.

I also went back on my other shoes and the M1 seem to work well with the -3 +3 (not the lost 2 2bets more than we have won) - if i wait for this, the shoe may be over or 1/2 or 1/3 way through?

Anyhow, Some of our runs at the local casino isn't that high but there are bunch of tables that have few 5-6ss and 5-7zz so it would really help with those, we will see if it keeps on helping.

Hi Killieu,

I think I understand that you go OTR after one loss if the OR count is -3 or lower ?

I don't understand where the +3 comes in. Could you please let me know

how the +3 is used and whether I understand the first part correctly

Thanks in advance.

Wendel

[bac-cracker]

Sorry Wendel, I meant +3 in general for the zz runs I get at the local casino.

Ellis, I saw Peter's shoe already so disregard my message on uploading.

One thing for Peter, I don't get how you determined to go to M1 at play 21 for zz... it worked out on 40,41 though.

Anyhow, here are some other types of shoes I am getting that deal with 5ss into long zz... happens often where I get otb to zz or vice versa or just 2 switching systems.

P3222112211111

B2531111141

P91212

Enhancements worked on this shoe.

Another shoe this is comon.

P4111252121

B11111313212111

P1222223

So these are the shoes I get pretty often where there are 2's and then 1's and then some drops.

Hi Killieu,

I think I understand that you go OTR after one loss if the OR count is -3 or lower ?

I don't understand where the +3 comes in. Could you please let me know

how the +3 is used and whether I understand the first part correctly

Thanks in advance.

Wendel

[Wendel]

Thanks Ellis,

I think I lost my first 2 bet at 7 (needed to wait for another), but didn't wait to see more 4s than 3s. At 23 I went OTR... Having lost the OTB bet at 22... Was that incorrect? I was in Mode 1 or I think I should have completed my ZZ run with OTB4L M3 properly (as this was my first encounter of ZZ in this shoe), after finishing a previous M1 Straight OTR at 21.

For my first NOR+ attempt, not bad ;-)

Looking forward to seeing your upload... I used my digital phone camera to scan and send - works quite well... As my scanner is in a box somewhere... Can't be bothered to unpack it!

Peter

I'm with you peter 4 iar's + seem to be like cockroaches in that if you see one, it's not the only one & there's going to be more of them.

[Guest]

An excellent discussion by all. A couple of pointers:

You DON'T want to be going M1 based on any count. That is delutional.

You ONLY go M1 when 4+s outnumber 3s.

The number of losing 2 bets is not as important because you automatically lose 2 bets when you have high 4+s.

On off on off the run is a bonefied enhancement that we teach.

It works best with short runs 4s 5s 6s.

But if you are seeing 7+s (7 or mores) you are best off to stay on runs until you lose.

So, in the shoe posted On Off was a valid approach.

At play 15, 4+s now exceed 3s. That is your signal to go M1. The first opportunity is at play 20.

Peter jumped the gun and got lucky.

BUT if prior shoes were showing high 4+s, that would be a good excuse to jump the gun - a good time to take a reasonable chance.

High 3s can also cause a minus count. But M1 in high 3s is suicidal. You gota have high 4+s for M1 to work.

[bac-cracker]

Good point, I will be aware of these triggers next time.

Can you tell me how you get a +1 on a starting P51 board on the 6th hand? You mentioned it twice, I just want to see how you do the OTR and switchback or whatnot.

An excellent discussion by all. A couple of pointers:

You DON'T want to be going M1 based on any count. That is delutional.

You ONLY go M1 when 4+s outnumber 3s.

The number of losing 2 bets is not as important because you automatically lose 2 bets when you have high 4+s.

On off on off the run is a bonefied enhancement that we teach.

It works best with short runs 4s 5s 6s.

But if you are seeing 7+s (7 or mores) you are best off to stay on runs until you lose.

So, in the shoe posted On Off was a valid approach.

At play 15, 4+s now exceed 3s. That is your signal to go M1. The first opportunity is at play 20.

Peter jumped the gun and got lucky.

BUT if prior shoes were showing high 4+s, that would be a good excuse to jump the gun - a good time to take a reasonable chance.

High 3s can also cause a minus count. But M1 in high 3s is suicidal. You gota have high 4+s for M1 to work.

[Guest]

Can you tell me how you get a +1 on a starting P51 board on the 6th hand? You mentioned it twice, I just want to see how you do the OTR and switchback or whatnot.

Actually I should have said +2 at play 6.

Ok, I think the shoe you are referring to started P52223, right? And I said if you started at play 2 with

S40 M2 you would be +1 at play 6. Actually you are at +2 because in M2 you stay OTR for 2 bets.

OK you lose 1,2 on B then win 3,1 on P then win 1 on B putting you at +2.

We usually start S40 in M2.

[bac-cracker]

Hi Ellis,

It was actually a shoe a long time ago where you were talking about the enhancements back in 10/12. And stated only OTB uses these.

And you stated that you would be at +1 at play 6 vs a -10 which is a huge improvement, just wondering how you got that starting at play 3.

1

2

3 B -1

4 B -2

5 B -3

6 P -4

That was what you were referring to, but with the enhancements you were trying to say we go OTR earlier, but it wasn't the first losing bet iar, it would be the 2nd on the switch, plus on/off?

Let me know if s40 also plays m1, or only OTB like stated a year ago.

Actually I should have said +2 at play 6.

Ok, I think the shoe you are referring to started P52223, right? And I said if you started at play 2 with

S40 M2 you would be +1 at play 6. Actually you are at +2 because in M2 you stay OTR for 2 bets.

OK you lose 1,2 on B then win 3,1 on P then win 1 on B putting you at +2.

We usually start S40 in M2.