F Approach Question

[Bac888]

Hi All, I was playing an asian live online baccarat and all the shoes were especially short ending on an average of 50 plays. I chose the F approach and was doing well until play 25. I'm not sure if I did the right thing by losing 4 bets in a row. I managed to pick up a bit back and until play 44, I have an instinct that made me change to S40. Reason being OR counts improving on +. If i just stick to 'F', it would have been another disaster from play 45 to 48, losing 10 units. Am I right to do so?

[brad01]

Hi bac888 good call to start with f it looks like the right choice. F or strong side should have long streaks on 1 side and 1's and 2's mostly on other side. This shoe does.

A few things: you are not incrementing your or count - every repeat it goes 1 negative, and every opposite it goes 1 positive. In this shoe it stays negative the whole time it goes to -7 at end of first column.

You are right to choose m3 as streaky shoes or - or count means m3 but why do you switch sides after 2 losing bets? M3 means you don't switch sides intil 3 losing bets meaning you can jump over weak side 2's

No need to switch systems you chose the right one - just keep your or count correctly and learn the correct mode play and then nor can handle some bad runs in the shoe. How do you post results like that and I will post my play?

[brad01]

I just played this with F3 and got to a high of +21 and ended on +16.

Had we switched to a 345 progression due to number first bets won could have really cleaned up maybe as long as we switched back to 123 when we start losing that high percentage of first bets - maybe 35 ish

[brad01]

+34 highest score if switch 345 when going good and then back to 123 when going not so good.

[Bac888]

Hi Brad, thx for the reply but bad news, its my 1st day playing NOR and I started $200 per unit. Lost about $7,000. After each shoe, the dealer shuffles right in front of the camera using a small machine, do you call that random shuffling? Most of the shoes have streaky patterns and since I'm unfamiliar with MDB, I chose the NOR approach. I guess I lacked practice and given only 30 secs between plays, I panicked and just clicked anywhere. Felt like I'm gambling instead of playing systematically. Somehow, I'm more comfortable playing F rather than S40 or OT4BL, maybe I'm just not experienced and can't react fast enough. i attached my play using screenshot on excel, saved as jpg and upload to the thread. Will be good if theres a sticky thread for seniors posting their various plays instead of searching each thread though.

[brad01]

Wow man I hate to hear that. This site is about getting the better of the casinos. I've only been playing a short time but picked it up fast with lots of practise. My advice to you stop playing for real or lower your bet size at least.

Play all the shoes on this site many different ways and learn the weaknesses and strengths of every system so u know them inside and out.

Use or count and sap to determine which system to play and which mode to be in

Don't bet a 2 bet until you can win your second bet as a 1.

Don't bet a 3 bet until you can win a 2 bet and win your 3rd as a 1 bet.

If in doubt bet imaginary or stop playing

Stick to stop loss when you hit it that's it your out

Play a few online games a day for practise and if you can't win then don't play for real.

I will post my play as soon as I can so you can see how I played. I think i did ok.

[Bac888]

Thx for your tips! I'm sure SAP counting is somewhere but could you just explain how to do it here?

[brad01]

I'm not really sure what access you have or what you need to be able to go on the SAP forum so don't really want to give too much away in case I'm giving away info which you may not have access to

Have to consult Ellis on that as I'm not sure and don't want to get in trouble for that - I'll send him a PM and if its ok I'll reply or even better maybe he will .

In summary - what events are happening and just as important NOT happening determines what is the optimum system to use and also what mode to use.

You can determine it all from the OR count but SAP is another way of looking at it.

Current direction of OR count just as important if not more important than overall OR count for NOR.

Try to let the shoe tell you what to do don't guess because if you have to guess then you need more practise

If you get stopped out don't worry - just don't keep losing

Record that shoe and go over it and look what you could have done different - what triggers could have told you what to do, and how to win, and what systems would win and what would lose on that shoe - if you see it happen again then you know

As Oz said: losing shoes is a fact of playing - who cares as long as you win more than you lose.

Maybe nothing works really good for NOR or maybe netbetting or MDB+ would clean up or maybe the best thing is stop and look for a better shoe.

All stuff I got from this forum and lots of practise - read, practise, read, practise

Turn yourself into a machine that takes money from the casinos not loses it!

[Bac888]

I'm a MDB member but understand some stuffs are not to be disclosed. Will search for the thread and by the way, the MDB+ really works wonder. Took screenshots of over 30 shoes dealt live online and have not seen a losing one. Only thing is, waiting for the trigger is a pain in the a** but heck, its worth the wait afterall! This may only be applicable to the live bac dealt in Cambodia.

[Guest]

I'm a MDB member but understand some stuffs are not to be disclosed. Will search for the thread and by the way, the MDB+ really works wonder. Took screenshots of over 30 shoes dealt live online and have not seen a losing one. Only thing is, waiting for the trigger is a pain in the a** but heck, its worth the wait afterall! This may only be applicable to the live bac dealt in Cambodia.

Great Brad! Do you have any questions about F ?

Right, patience is a good discipline to have when you are playing MDB+

[brad01]

Hi Ellis well I played a shoe online the other day and it was like 212121425 etc

I was like this looks like a s40 shoe then I saw a few streaks and went with f. Then it switched back to s40 near the end.

I guess it's more probable a hand shuffled shoe going back to s40 than staying f - 1's and 2's being most common?

I guess if it's f we should see streaks from the start otherwise it's highly probable it's s40 with a few streaks in the middle?

Like you say - there's always a rough patch or 2 in every shoe.

[Pando]

That's a great point Brad01

At SkyCity, Auckland the new Angel card shoes that were very MDB+ friendly a month ago

changed 2 weeks ago into shoes that are streaky, and they change at least once during the shoe.

For example there was shoe with 35 BANKERS (I was at another table) and on

Sunday a shoe had 22 1's and 2's in a row. I cleaned up on that one.

1 month ago I never saw anything like that

So they change within the shoe as well as over a longer time frame

As Ellis says, great Casino business management. We need to be real smart.

cheers

Pando

[brad01]

They probably changed them because you were winnin too much!

[Pando]

Ha ha

I am only playing the table minimum which is $50

Most times my max bet is 2 units

If I am winning a lot of first bets then I bet $75 first up

and $100 for the second bet

I looked again at the stats from the shoes for that month

There is no doubt that the shoes changed - very close to perfect

MDB+ shoes (with SAP counts close to equal) for 2 weeks, and then

the second 2 weeks all NOR shoes

Cant wait to see what they have done this weekend, and if the operate

a 2 week cycle and have MDB+ friendly shoes again.

cheers

Pando