jerseyslim

Just one question. If this is system 40, what do you mean by "mode."

Well I'll be damned if that's not nice. I'll be going tomorrow to the casino so I'll give this all a whirl in real time. Thanks again. This will be our secret. LOL

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. They're all listening. LOL

PJ.........is this then a new scorecard we must use. I don't think there's enought space in the SAP boxes to record all this as far as I can see. If you could scan what type of chart you are using, it would be most helpful............thnx..Jersey

Bill.........how have you been recording these extra SAP scores on your sheets. Possibly you can scan one in or give an explanation as to how you are entering them on your sheet.

Ellis......If I said that F2 was the answer in streaks I only meant when 2's weren't running high. If you have steak, then to use RD1 except where 1's were high. Naturally there is a devil's advocate to every system but we can't throw something out because it loses to something. They all lose to something. Just don't play it if SAP or whatever says not to.

I have been saying to some individuals here that if I was to play any one system, it would be sys40. It could use a little fine tuning but I think you've got a good structure to work with.

Took an over night trip to Mt. Airy last night and today (Wednesday). First bad trip since I've been going. My problem was not with the shoes, but really myself. I found myself over doing it with changing modes while in a shoe, trying to pick up on the latest switch and all I was doing it creating doubt in myself, as to whether I needed to change modes and this caused me to skip hands, that were winner only to jump on the losers and this forced the progressions to get higher. It was like a dog chasing it's tail. I've got to settle down more into a mode, which fits the overall shoe and not change so much. Learned an expensive lesson today. Gotta do much better. Wound up -20 units on five shoes. Not good. A lot could have been handled by system 40 all by itself.

Thanks for the heads up MVS.

Hey John, we'll take the shoes either way. Good to hear from you.

After the fact I know there were things I coulda shoulda done that would have made life easier in that shoe. But the dumbest one was when the shoe was running high in the 2's and I went to F2 at hand 35. Don't know what the heck I was thinking. But I'm learning and gaining confidence in myself and how I want to tackle each shoe.

Took my weekly to Mt. Airy today. Hit my 20 units in 2 shoes. The second shoe was over fast when the shoe provided a 10 streak on player side and I was playing RD1. However, the first shoe was rather interesting. In fact I was down 15 units after a 6 bet. I decided to go for one more but didn't want to exceed -20 so I made a 5 unit bet which won and enabled me to go on from there. Totally turned things around and wound up +10. That was quite a swing. I'll put the shoe up here so you can see it. I started off in the system40 mode after 4 opposites in a row. I started betting at hand 7 which was a little early for me. Usually want 8-10 hands done before placing a bet. At hands 9-10 wound up with a threesome so with all the singles and this threesome I decided to shift to F2. Things were going ok but then in looking back from hands 12-21, all the hands won were opposites. So at hand 22 I shifted back to system40. Hands 32-34 were all losses. Part of that was my fault. You'll note at hand 33 I should have bet B but instead, seeing how the 2's were lagging I decided to go OTR on hand 33 and lost so I stayed on opposites then and lost hand 34. At 35, don't know why I did it, especially with all the 2's coming out, but stupidly went F2 which was the wrong time for that and lost the next two hands. DUMB!!!!! So now I was ticked at myself and had now lost a 5 and 6 unit bet. This is where I decided to make one last bet. I immediately shifted to RD1 after realizing my mistake, and as they say, the rest is history. This was the start to my climb back. I put myself in jeopardy because of some bad mistakes. However, the more I play, the more confidence I get in making these larger progression amounts. However, I never want to go more than -20. Played the balance of the shoe, that is as far as I wanted to go, and wound up with a +10. I didn't even want to continue working the shoe. I had to get up and cool off a bit after that one. Just a side note, you'll notice I've done away with the O/R column towards the right side. Two reasons for this. Last time I was in the casino, my O/R was calling for one thing, but when looking at the more current information provided by the R/O column they were conflicting. I tried to stay with the O/R count but was getting wacked while the shorter term O/R was telling me the way I should be betting now. If I see a lot of red number in these columns, it's really telling me that at least for now, the shoe is turning choppy. Now I could have had a -10 count in the O/R column but that might be down from a -18. So although the longer term indicator was saying stay one way, the O/R count had made a drastic turn in the other direction. There's no miracle pill for what the correct solution is, but for me personally, I'm getting a better feeling as to which way to go by looking at what's going on now, and are we running a lot of 1's or 2's at the current time. There's no 100% correct indicator either way. One is longer term the other is more of a shorter term indicator. For now, I'll go with what's happening now and not be influenced by the longer term stuff. Let's face it, that information could be outdated and that bias now long gone. I also think that if you're going with system40, you can be right and wrong at the same time and still make out ok.

You had some real "brass ones" playing a strong streak shoe with basically a chop system. Why did you wait so long to get in. Was the shoe already started. What you did makes sense.

All the methods have to lose to something. Can't find a postive answer if there isn't one. No matter what method you use, it's prone to loss in one way or another.

Ellis............Here's maybe the problem we're running into with ADN. When we started this thread, you said that with ADN we don't have to stop after 3 losses on the side that's losing. That this system, because of how it works, doesn't need a stop on the side that lost 3 in a row. You said, "The big difference is this: We are starting out with the ONLY system perfectly designed for net betting." Well maybe it has it's flaws and we need to stop it when it's not working and bet the other side unapposed. Just a thought. At this point I'm just going to "roll my own" and do it the hard. way. I understand everyone here has their own ways and time they can allocate to studying a method. So if anyone wants to put the time in, they might try using the usual, when losing three in a row, bet the other system unapposed until you get two in a row or WLW on the losing side.

Ellis..............to me the thing is you have to decide at some time during a shoe, which mode you want to go into. To me, I've narrowed it down to system40, RD1, and F2. Anything other than that I think you're really splitting hairs, and this isnn't really a hair splitting game. You will never by choice, hit the exact mode at the most optimum time. If you do it's by accident. Those three methods will work nicely with just about any shoe with I think system40 being by far the most versitile and can cover up a lot of mistakes. I can't really say how ADN is going to perform during a shoe. I'm not sure just exactly when I should be using it because it jumps back and forth all over the place. At least the the basic 3 I mentioned I know how they will perform and when they won't perform. Obviously I've just leaned tha ADN isn't good with streaky shoes. But at this point, I'm not sure exactly when I should apply it so I'm sticking with the 3 I mentioned and take whatever it gives me. If I lose, then I really know why. When I lose with ADN, I'm left scratching my head and asking why. I've got to shelve working on ADN because I've just found it to be very frustrating yet it has it's times of brilliance.

Every time I hear good posts I jump back on the ADN and when I do, I don't get very good results. I was doing this on Bet Phoenix. I finally stopped at hand 40 because I couldn't take it anymore. Then I redid the shoe and the setup was for RD1 in the Big Three. With ADN I was -11. Doing it the hard way I was +16. You guys try it. B313342211 P334121312 Maybe I did something wrong.

I sometimes bet a second 2 after a loss, with the U1D2M2. I'm still a bit conservative.

And thanks to Keith too for starting this forum. LOL Hey I've already got the key to the vault. What more could I ask for? : )

I made my weekly trip today to Mt. Airy. My focus is on what I call the Big Three. Those being System40, RD1, and F2. I pretty much attempt to fit the current shoe, at the current time, to one of these three main systems. I decide by the O/R count along with the current winnings and losing between RD1 and System. I'll attempt to attach my first shoe from today so you get an idea of what I'm looking at. It's the Maverick worksheet but I look to track the current O/R and the cumulative total of wins between RD1 and Opposites exclusively. What this means is that I could be having a count which says this is a streaky shoe but the recent results showing in the W/L column I should probably switch, at least based on current shoe results. This may be right or wrong, but it's pretty much the way I want to do it. It's not exactly maverick but goes along those ideas. Anyhow, my goal for the weekly session is +20 units. Today, I was able to accomplish this in the first shoe. Normally when I get to +10 I quit and wait for the next shoe, but I'm getting more confidence in my playing a realize the advantage of continuing on. I was at +20 at hand 45 and just paper traded after that. I started the shoe in the RD1 mode, but suddenly saw the shoe swinging the other way so I switched to 40 at hand 19 after pausing to make sure this is what I wanted to do. When you see my O/R column, just remember I record things backwards from what we've learned here. It's a hangup I've got because many years ago I worked with a system that had me recording R as + and O as -. So until I get a lobotomy, this is the way I must do it. I want to take this time to thank Ellis, for having come up with all these various systems over the years, and I want to thank those individuals who have assisted me along the way in order to get where I'm at right now. Some of them are MVS, Wolfat, PapaJoe, and Maxfli. I'm thinking off the top of my head and I'm sure I've left someone out, but thanks to all. If things don't get better, I'm very happy and confident where I'm at. Thanks everyone!

Due to your first couple of sentences, I think I'll print and frame this response. LOL

Ellis.......you say you look at your ZZ and straight runs separately. Could you be more explicit. How do you use that information going forward in the shoe. I wouldn't think you'd worry about the zz's since you want them as long as possible and the streaks, what does the length of the streak tell you what to do further in the shoe. I assume when you play with no SAP you hop on the run for one bet and then back again to the opposites. Just want to make sure because we're starting to get some conflicting things here now.

Personally I wouldn't want to take something that's simple and then hope by making it more difficult, it's going to win more money. I think usuallly the opposite. Keep it simple on this one in my opinion.

Actually in thinking about this a little more, probably the more conservative way to play this would be doing U1D2 but whenver making that down 2 bet, don't make it any larger than you need in order to make a 1 unit profit. As an example, with the "sure method", let's say you have been having a tough time and made a 6 unit bet. The next sequence is 7 units. If you were still down by 8 units after winning the 6 bet, your next bet with the sure method would be 7 units. However, with u1d2, if you won a 6 unit bet, your next bet would be 4 instead of 7. I realize you wouldn't be digging yourself out of a hole as fast, but more importantly you wouldn't be digging yourself into a larger hole much faster. Double edged sword, but I'm a bit more conservative and would be nervous going up 1 unit after winning a 6 unit bet. I would feel a bit relieved going down to a 4 unit bet even though it wouldn't be digging me completely out of the hole. You have to be comfortable making your bet and that's what sometimes comes back to bite me because I either skip a bet or cut the unit back to 1 instead of 3 or 4. So for me, I'd use the up1d2 but let the down 2 be no larger than what's needed to get me to that +1 unit in the progression.

It's funny but when I first read it, I was a bit skeptical but then applied it to some actual shoes that I had a tough time on, and it seemed to work rather well. Turned larger profits on shoes I didn't score very high on. Of course for the most part, I when playing the shoes originally I either stopped betting because I wasn't sure about making the next bet but paper bet it so I know what the next play was going to be, or there were times I cut my progression back, however with this method on paper I just plowed right through and kept the progressions going as the rules state and it worked out very well. Now whether I could keep the progressions high where I stopped betting before becomes another question. Easy doing on paper but putting down the large number of units is another. Key is, do this on actual shoes you've done, hopefully covering your worst loss ration, and see how it turns out. But I found the results rather interesting. Thanks for sharing audionut.