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That's funny you mentioned this. I've done it a few times on roulette just to see and it worked wonderfully actually. I just treated it like the baccarat table and bet on the outside colors for red and black as if they were Player and Banker. I know there is no reason for it to work since roulette is completely random while baccarat has a fixed number of cards... but the biases on roulette stayed biased for long enough to win and get out. But I assume I just got lucky, ha. Even though I won, I still wouldn't recommend playing it since it's a true game of chance... unless you are already up a bunch from dominating the baccarat tables with NOR :-) Never tried the inside numbers... but thats an interesting strategy. I might just give it a shot!

Ellis, I know you’re probably sick of explaining Modes, but I just wanted to clarify that I understand it correctly. I always try to think of NOR in the simplest way as much as I can. When you explained OTB4L by saying it is “betting a repeat after an opposite and opposite after repeat†- that helped me understand more than reading pages and pages on the forum. So for the Modes - basically we are simply repeating the previously run, whatever that might be? For instance, say we are playing S40 and the last run is 3. The next time we see a 3 in a row, we bet ATR so that it will stay at 3. If it goes 4+, then the next time we see a 3 in a row, we bet OTR (repeating the run of 4+). Correct? And whatever happens in between the runs, just play as normal betting opposites on ones and twos? Say the last run ended at 4… then we would not bet a second OTR bet because it would have lost previously, right? Thanks

If it's a strong side shoe and the weak side doesn't call for you to switch onto it... you would simply bet one side every single hand, right? For instance - if the shoe is strong side Banker. And we are in mode 3 and the Player hasn't gone past 2 in a row. We would bet Banker every hand? I was playing next to a gentleman the other day and noticed he was doing well - I asked him if he was playing a streak system. He said "no, I just bet the Banker every time". It just so happened that the shoe was very Banker heavy - over 60%.

Hey Davis, I am considering joining the NOR forum. I am just curious how is the information presented. Is it just spread out through the forum or is it all in one place? Does the manual come with the forum purchase? I see $600 for the pricing.... Thanks P.S. what does NOR stand for?

Through the many many hours of study, research and play time I've finally came to the conclusion that the most important part and the key to long term victory is picking the right shoe to fit your personal play style, method, strategy etc. I love the playing game and understand the math behind the game. I understand that there are "pattern trends" and percentages for those trends. What I don't understand is knowing what shoe to pick or how to determine if it's going to favor my play style. Some shoes keep doing what they are doing while other shoes balance themselves out. This is very frustrating and is the only concern that I have about following strategies and beating the game. A recent example... I've waited half way into the shoe... it was choppy, so I jumped on and played the chop. But it quickly turned into an anti-chop shoe all the way until the end. It balanced itself out, but in an unusual half shoe way. Anyone have any advice or tips that help them determine when/if a shoe is crummy? How long into the shoe is good before betting? I know it's not possible to determine 100% obviously... but any tricks that help reveal something to make a more educated guess? Thanks guys.

I was just wondering if it's possible to use your system (or at least the theory in your system) by going off of the horizontal electronic score card that the casino provides. Or is the reason it works because of the way you track the shoe?

Sure thing. I'm new to this forum and seen a Pittsburgh post and thought I would chime in. Ha-ha I think we all can relate to the wife/girlfriend thing in one way or another. I just got back from the Casino tonight and the bac tables min was $40. Every so often they bump it up randomly for some reason. I figured I would play conservative with the first couple rows - just betting that row 1 wont go to 2, 2 wont go to 3, 3 wont go to 4, etc... doubling my bets if I lost. You know, real basic playing. It was a picture perfect shoe - it didn't go more than 3 rows until near the end of the shoe. I was up a nice chunk of change, and that little voice inside my head told me to get up and leave. But I kept playing anyways, and sure enough... streak after streak after streak came and wrecked havoc on my chip stack. I ended up losing almost as much as I had won with the same method of playing. Clearly should have left the shoe or at the very least changed the way I was playing. But at least I didn't let myself give it all back. Davis - yea you're def. right about the object leaving with more than you came with. Knowing when to stop or adapt strategies is real talent indeed.

I live in Pittsburg and go to the Rivers a lot - it's a nice casino with an awesome seafood buffet. It's nice when the mini bac min bet is at only $10. But usually after 8:00 the min goes to $25 and max is at $3000, which can be tough to keep playing if you get off to a bad start. It is hard sometimes to get on the tables though - they are madly overrun with Asian gamblers. They must group play with shared money because you will often see them bet thousands a hand all night long with no problem.