# Biased table selection?

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• Users

hi all,

read thru some of the posting & noticed that prior to play any shoe, it was recommended to look for biased table? is it using the OR count, so long as its a +OR, we'll take it as a chop, likewise, if its a -OR, it's a streak? but how do we know which & after how many hands then we can determine the type of shoe we gonna play?

TY.

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hi all,

read thru some of the posting & noticed that prior to play any shoe, it was recommended to look for biased table? is it using the OR count, so long as its a +OR, we'll take it as a chop, likewise, if its a -OR, it's a streak? but how do we know which & after how many hands then we can determine the type of shoe we gonna play?

TY.

The OR count can only do 3 things:

+ OR = Chop = S40

- OR = Streak = F

Hovering 0 = Neutral = OTB4L

You can usually tell in 5 or 6 hands. Some like to go a few more. Just don't wait too long. If you still can't tell in ten hands, the shoe is not worth playing.

PS, you should post such a question in the NOR Questions thread.

If you are a private NOR member you should already know this from your NOR Manual.

If not, you should join. You can't learn to play on the public forum.

Edited by Guest
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• Users

Hi Master Ellis (ha, rather call u Master as to

uncle),

So there'll be 3 systems that we need to study to counter these situations? Actually i'm still in the midst of consideration to join. However, its seem that the forum is kind of quiet (maybe all busying studying ya?, ha!)

Anyway, if there were more trips reports,i'm certain it will boost our confidence to be part of your community...

Cheers~!

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Actually i'm still in the midst of consideration to join. However, its seem that the forum is kind of quiet (maybe all busying studying ya?, ha!)

This particular conversation is being done in the "public" area of the forum in the baccarat section. For some reason, very few of the registered public members post up many questions or recent plays they've had.

The majority of discussions are in the private baccarat areas.

A few of the private members will check in here from time to time but most are concentrating on their NOR practice and work.

As you can see, Ellis does check here for questions from the newer people who come in.

MVS

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Hi Master Ellis (ha, rather call u Master as to

uncle),

So there'll be 3 systems that we need to study to counter these situations? Actually i'm still in the midst of consideration to join. However, its seem that the forum is kind of quiet (maybe all busying studying ya?, ha!)

Anyway, if there were more trips reports,i'm certain it will boost our confidence to be part of your community...

Cheers~!

Well, you make a good point. We are not much on sales around here. But we've all been at a BTC Bac/BJ seminar in Vegas all week. Just got back late last night.

MVS, would you please take the whole seminar reviews thread and post it here in the public forum for Mr Knight and others who are interested. I think there were a few trip reports on that thread. Anything you deem too sensitive just delete. But I don't recall mentioning any trade secrets on that particular thread.

Mr knight, we post more trip reports at BTC than the rest of the internet put together, but mostly in the private forum. The pitiful fact is we all tend to forget about the public forum. We're just too busy. And remember, these were just the reviews we got in one day.

There is a similar review thread on the new NOR Manual but I'd have to edit that for the public forum unless I could get MVS to do it for me.

Edited by Guest
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Oh, here's a few:

NOR Manual Testimonials:

Re: NOR Manual

Thanks Keith and Ellis,

Very clear and concise. Well done. Looking forward to the sample shoes.

Tom M

Re: NOR Manual

Originally Posted by BigVic

Thank you Ellis. Great job!

Could you include the shoes you played during the first NOR seminar trip as sample shoes? Maybe with rough play by plays?

Good idea Vic! Will do!

Re: NOR Manual

at last!

Plasia

Re: NOR Manual

Nice work with the Manual Ellis. I read it throughout school this morning and it made my day lol. 11 more days until I get my paycheck to start a \$500 bankroll.

Jimmmay

Re: NOR Manual

Great job with the manual Ellis! Wow you are getting better with age! How the heck do you do it? Again just a fantastic job! Keith, great job with the PDF and all your hard work! You are a great team! Wish I could be in Vegas next month! Knock em dead guys!

-----------------------

John

Re: NOR Manual

Keith sent me a copy ! Thanks! And thanks Ellis and Keith for putting it together and for the forum. Yeah, so you make probably, again "Probably", make maybe a few bucks, but after all said and down.....I think very few !! Considering you're time and sharing of you're knowledge.......maybe minimum wage, if that ?

So thanks for all you guys do !! The insight into the game and ability for us to hold our own at the table, is well worth the price of admission !

johnny/albuquerque

Re: NOR Manual

Congrats on a great job. I agree with Ellis - concise

and all inclusive. Easy to read and understand.

Even the guys on BF could understand it! See you

in Vegas

Paul

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Mr Knight, You can read the entire trip report of the prior seminar at ImSpirit for an outsider's opinion.

Does anybody have that link handy?

At that seminar I played 6 NOR shoes in casino and maintained a 26% Player Advantage. That's certainly a world record for 6 shoes.

And we posted the 12 or so actual shoes from the seminar before that in the private forum.

I'd post those in the public forum but some clown would try to pick up on what we were doing and go out half baked and lose his shirt. Sometimes a little information is worse than none at all. I think we averaged +12.2 or maybe it was +9.2. Who cares.

Edited by Guest
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Ellis,

If Keith doesn't beat me to it, I'll start to put the threads together starting tomorrow night for posting in the public baccarat section when I get back home and on a real computer.

MVS

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Ellis,

If Keith doesn't beat me to it, I'll start to put the threads together starting tomorrow night for posting in the public baccarat section when I get back home and on a real computer.

MVS

OK, thanks MVS! Meanwhile here is a preview trip report from a whole page full yesterday from the Vegas seminar.

Re: Vegas Seminar -- trip report

Originally Posted by way2fast

Thanks to Ellis and Keith for an incredible seminar on Saturday. I have been on here for close to a year and have had excellent and consistent results with the NOR concepts as they have been developed. The manual summarizes the entire approach, and the many fine points raised on Saturday by Ellis and Keith are real gems worth multiple times the cost to attend.

Played 4 tables at Aria over the weekend using strict NOR rules and guidance from the seminar:

1. Saw ZZ run of 5 at start of shoe and immediately jumped in with S40. Quit after 25 plays at +10. PA 31%.

2. Started S40 after a 2-1-2 start. Switched to OTB4L at play 20. Stayed between -1 and +4 for a while and decided to quit at +4 after hitting the 4-5 range for the third time. Low PA of 7%, but thrilled with my new understanding of how to get out of a tough shoe with a nice profit. THANK YOU ELLIS.

3. Saw fellow student, HawaiianAl, killing a table which started as an F table (4 followed by 6), and then turned into a dream OTB4L with nothing by 3s and 2s. I started at play 24 and quit at play 33 with a +10. PA of 83%! Great fun to nail it along with another student.

4. Tote board showed all 2s and 3s in the first 18 hands, so started with OTB4L. Hit +9 three times, then finally got to +10. Captured +9 on next hand and quit with 20% PA.

Over the four tables collected 33 units with PA of 22%. Statistically, my best trip with NOR -- so far!

John,

I'm looking at returning to Vegas on the 6th through the 9th, let me know if that fits your schedule.

Al 12-15-2011 04:59 AM

Mr Knight et al: A 22% PA is 44 times better than a perfect card counter strives to attain. Not 44%, 4400%

Edited by Guest
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BTW guys, I realize I get a lot of bad press all over the internet except for real sites like ImSpirit.

But that is par for the course when you have been #1 in the business for 30 years.

The bottom line is I have never gotten a single return in 30 years after millions of dollars in sales in spite of the fact that I always offered a full money back guarantee. Nobody else in the business can say that - Any of it.

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• Users

Hi Master Ellis,

Thanks for the report & congrats for another successful trip! I feel that even after reading the nor manual, player will have to be able to identify when/what method to system during the game rather than evaluating the scorecard after that which he/she might already loss (even with a stop loss of 8u), does your teaching able to do that? I think that is the most difficult part, perhaps I'm a slow learner... lol...

Anyway, keep these reports keeping in if it's not too troublesome...

Thanks all~!

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• Users

How I wished would be able to win some money for the course fee...

Will be hitting the cruise ship next week... Any tips? lol...

BTW guys, I realize I get a lot of bad press all over the internet except for real sites like ImSpirit.

But that is par for the course when you have been #1 in the business for 30 years.

The bottom line is I have never gotten a single return in 30 years after millions of dollars in sales in spite of the fact that I always offered a full money back guarantee. Nobody else in the business can say that - Any of it.

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Hi Master Ellis,

Thanks for the report & congrats for another successful trip! I feel that even after reading the nor manual, player will have to be able to identify when/what method to system during the game rather than evaluating the scorecard after that which he/she might already loss (even with a stop loss of 8u), does your teaching able to do that? I think that is the most difficult part, perhaps I'm a slow learner... lol...

Anyway, keep these reports keeping in if it's not too troublesome...

Thanks all~!

Yes, that is hardest for some at first but of course the manual as well as the private forum go all through that in great but simple detail. The manual is pretty much idiot proof but there is a Manual Questions thread in the private forum and there is no such thing as a stupid question around here.

We have a simple count beginners can use for system selection at first which is very accurate and you can litterally learn it in seconds.

This is the computer age. Everyone has become a slow learner! But I'm a slow teacher.

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How I wished would be able to win some money for the course fee...

Will be hitting the cruise ship next week... Any tips? lol...

Ha, I think you've got the cart before the horse. Learn first, then play.

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How I wished would be able to win some money for the course fee...

Will be hitting the cruise ship next week... Any tips? lol...

Hah! I have yet to find a cruise ship with a bac table.

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• Users

Ha! Totally agree.. If I do win, just mere pure luck~

Well, do hope to learn to win consistently from our Master...

In fact, I'm waiting patiently for fellow member to demo me 'live' to see the power of ya method...

Cheers~

Ha, I think you've got the cart before the horse. Learn first, then play.
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Ha! Totally agree.. If I do win, just mere pure luck~

Well, do hope to learn to win consistently from our Master...

In fact, I'm waiting patiently for fellow member to demo me 'live' to see the power of ya method...

Cheers~

Lol Knightbac so you still having doubts? I will tell you that NOR is definitely a worthwhile investment. Myself and other new members had earned back the course fee in our first trip! You have to believe to learn.

Hope to play with you at RWS soon!

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Not doubt la... But wana see 'live' with own eyes ma...

So when you'll be hitting rws huh...

Lol Knightbac so you still having doubts? I will tell you that NOR is definitely a worthwhile investment. Myself and other new members had earned back the course fee in our first trip! You have to believe to learn.

Hope to play with you at RWS soon!

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