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Having problems with the F Shoe


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System 40 stats that I will give myself 1-3 chances before it switches side.

First bet 1 unit, win +1 ,or lose -1 -we lose so continue

Second bet 2 units, we win, we recover 1 unit , and gain +1 unit, we lose total loss now at -3. -we lose so continue

Third bet 3 units, we win, we breakeven. we lose we are at -6.

This system work as long as it switches sides or flip flops with a high frequency.

Is there anyway to get coverage like this during an F shoe?

B1511412122

B6113311121

B1112115711

B241111

Does 2 in a row losses count as a trigger to switch systems? Say going from TB4L to OTB4L?

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System 40 stats that I will give myself 1-3 chances before it switches side.

First bet 1 unit, win +1 ,or lose -1 -we lose so continue

Second bet 2 units, we win, we recover 1 unit , and gain +1 unit, we lose total loss now at -3. -we lose so continue

Third bet 3 units, we win, we breakeven. we lose we are at -6.

This system work as long as it switches sides or flip flops with a high frequency.

Is there anyway to get coverage like this during an F shoe?

B1511412122

B6113311121

B1112115711

B241111

Does 2 in a row losses count as a trigger to switch systems? Say going from TB4L to OTB4L?

Brendan, I can see you are trying but struggling so let me give you some pointers here.

Let's take your last question first. 2 loses iar is pretty much meaningless because all 3 NOR systems are designed to absorb 2 losses and often 3. At first, your best indicator of the wrong system is 4 bets - particularly multiple 4 bets win or lose.

But you need to learn to mentally overlay all 3 systems onto the beginning of a shoe to see whitch would be performing best. This way you catch it earlier. It might already be telling you to change systems after a losing 1 bet.

Now, back to the beginning of your post:

You should be starting out with NOR, not NOR+. Master NOR first. NOR uses a 123 4 progression. BUT, at the beginning of a shoe we don't bet 2 until we have won a 1 bet. This stops you from losing a 123 right off the bat. Better to lose a 111.

We usually ignore that in NOR+ but sometimes we wish we hadn't.

Correct, S40 likes shoes to switch sides frequently. We call that chop. That is why we deploy S40 in choppy shoes - shoes with high 1's. Only high 1's can make a shoe choppy - more than 1 every 4 plays. So high 1's nearly always calls for S40, especially high 1's with high 2s which is usually the case with high 1's - but not always.

Which brings us to your shoe:

So OK, you saw an early 5 so you are thinking F. - it is a common mistake to let an early run screw you up. It so happens that S40 M2, which is how we usually start S40, LOVES 5s. And so does S40 M3.

Say that to yourself 20 times: S40 loves 5s. Then do 5 Hail Mary's.

The shoe began with a 1 and by play 8 you've already got 3 which would normally take 12 plays. (1 every 4 plays) So you've got high 1's with a 5 - both loved by S40.

Your OR count is hovering 0 which usually means OTB4L except OTB4L hates high 1's. It loves 2s but there aren't any at all until play 15.

This is definitely an S40 shoe!

Nothing indicates F. You have no SS (Strong Side) and no multiple long runs and no high minus OR count.

Try starting at play 2 with S40 M2 and bet U1D2.

OK you win your 1 at play 2. Lose a 1,2 and win your 3 OTR as well as your 1. Then you win a 111 on the ZZ, lose a 12 and win your 3 OTR again. Lose your 1 OTR but win your 2, lose 1, win 2, win 1, lose 1, win 2, lose 1.

Your first col score is a good indicator of performance. You are at +8, down from +9 which is freaking excellent!

You hit +10 at the top of the 2nd col. lose a 12 and win your 3,1 OTR, lose 1, win 2, win 1,1 then lose a 1,2 plus your 3 OTR which puts you in mode 3, and then lose your 4,5. But you hit the dreaded 3,3 at +14 so you've got the chips and sure enough you win your 6,4,2,1 getting you back up to +12 then you lose 1 and finish the col with a winning 2 putting you at +13 - excellent for the first 2 cols. Then you go crazy at the top of the 3rd and win a 1,1,1,1,12,1,1 putting you very quickly at +20 at play 48 - a great shoe!

Should you go on? I wouldn't after that 6 mishap but if you do, you hit +20 again at play 52 - a definite Quit point. And if you stay in you hit 20 twice more before finishing at only +17 - an excellent example of how well our cash mgt rules work.

Brendan, you've got to read more, learn our rules. What we are teaching you works!

You need to be asking questions more often!

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Ok I see where I made a mistake at play 12 is OTR bet I win, then the next bet should just be

below that bet instead of switching sides because it's another OTR bet. Is hand 14 a Banker because it's the opposite of hand 13 or do I bet straight down until I win.

Same goes for hand 30 lose 1,2 switch sides 3,4,5 then a win at 6.

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Ok I see where I made a mistake at play 12 is OTR bet I win, then the next bet should just be

below that bet instead of switching sides because it's another OTR bet. Is hand 14 a Banker because it's the opposite of hand 13 or do I bet straight down until I win.

Same goes for hand 30 lose 1,2 switch sides 3,4,5 then a win at 6.

OK Brendan, I can see you are starting to catch on and you are asking the right questions. Since I see I've now got your attention I went back and edited my game post. I didn't change any plays - just made it more legible.

You are correct about play 12. Now we started and are still in Mode 2 at play 12. With mode 2 (all 3 NOR and NOR+ systems) we stay on the run for TWO bets because we got on the run so early. We are just going with the odds. You see later in Mode 3, we only stay otr for ONE bet because we got on the run so late - see play 53.

Right again! Play 14 is B BECAUSE we lost our 2nd OTR attempt so we go right back to normal S40 which is Opposites. This we do ANYTIME and EVERY TIME we lose an OTR bet attempt regardless if it was the first or second OTR attempt.

Put in simpler words - Whenever we lose OTR we go right back to the system we were playing.

And right for the 3rd time! Starting at play 30 you lose a 1,2 so you bet 3 OTR because you are still in mode 2. But then you lose your 3 OTR which immediately puts you in Mode 3 meaning you are going to bet your 6 straight down. And our Mode change works! Yes, we lose our 4,5 but win our 6, 4, 2, 1 putting us right back in the game. This is the advantage U1D2 has over basic NOR's 123 4.

Yep, you are definitely starting to get it. Keep up the good work!

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Is this most common I see that I will be up +10 units in a shoe and then give it back on the third column? Had I stopped on either the first or second column I would be positive on just about every shoe. Or do I keep going like every other player until the shoe ends?

P1214112211211

P1123342121

B3112153112

P311116

I tried playing both system40 and OTB4L ,but only got a low score.

How does NOR hold up against tournaments? Does anybody have experience in tournament play?

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Brendan, not sure I see the problem with this last shoe. I played it assuming in the blind, started at play 2 with OTBL M3 using U1D2. That play 2 was the only one I went negative. Ended 1st col up+6, and ended 2nd col up+19. By play 47 I had hit +20 for the third time and probably would have got out. Played it on out and didn't change to mode 2 until play 55 after losing 3rd ST bet at 53 and the one 4OTR bet at 54. Went OTR at 63 in M2 and lost the second OTR bet at 64. Went OTR M2 again at 72 made the first OTR bet but not the second at the last play and ended +14. (Never looked for M1 since I'm only playing M3 and M1 for now). Any see it any different.

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Well done gman. Only a couple minor things:

The top bet in the 2nd column should be a 2.

The last bet of the shoe should be OTR since you are in Mode 2.

Play 56 should have waited one more play to go OTR since you were in mode 3.

But none of these effect your +20 except you would have got there sooner.

There was a discrepancy in the original game itself since one column, the third I think, had 21 plays so I put the extra play at the top of the 4th. Don't know if you did the same but that could account for our slight difference.

One trick I used that we haven't talked about in a long time is that whenever you have a 2,3,4 twice in a row like you did starting at play 58, it's a good idea to then go to 1 instead of 2. Of course you already had your +20 so.....

But the main point was: this certainly was not an F shoe.

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The last bet of the shoe should be OTR since you are in Mode 2.

Quick ?. I didn't make the second bet OTR in M2 on the last bet at play 73 only because of what happened last time I went OTR in M2 at plays 63 & 64 and the second OTR bet lost. Was this a mistake? Am I misapplying the proper play?

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No, it was good reasoning and not a mistake. I NEVER bet the last play because if you lose, there is no recovery. But, if I were forced to make it, you know, like if the dealer were armed, I would go with the base rule of 2 OTR bets in Mode 2 simply because overall, that wins the most often. BUT anywhere else in the shoe I'd go by shoe history just as you did. Good shoe and well played. Just pay more attention when you start a new column. That is where we make the most mistakes.

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Quick ?. I didn't make the second bet OTR in M2 on the last bet at play 73 only because of what happened last time I went OTR in M2 at plays 63 & 64 and the second OTR bet lost. Was this a mistake? Am I misapplying the proper play?

No, it was good reasoning and not a mistake. I NEVER bet the last play because if you lose, there is no recovery. But, if I were forced to make it, you know, like if the dealer were armed, I would go with the base rule of 2 OTR bets in Mode 2 simply because overall, that wins the most often. BUT anywhere else in the shoe I'd go by shoe history just as you did. Good shoe and well played. Just pay more attention when you start a new column. That is where we make the most mistakes.

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  • 1 month later...
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Hi gman,

I'm a new member and I was admiring how you played this shoe. I was trying to go thru it myself, play by play and figure out how everything works out. On play 21, I figure that should be a 2 unit bet, but you are only betting 1 unit. Is that an oversight or am I not seeing something here. Can you please take a look.

Thx brother.

CT

Hi gman,

Pls disregard my question. I noticed that Ellis had already brought it up.

Thx

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