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. . . there is no holy grail. Let's get over this right now - logically. This should be obvious to everyone but being human we always want that magic formula.

First: a holy grail has no need to not bet due to a stop loss or stop win. A holy grail IS a holy grail because it can predict when a bet will win more times than not. So the only reason to not bet is due to our predictive criteria not being met. So we either have a known advantage bet or not. Doesn't matter how many times we lose that bet because eventually we will win more bets than lose AND pay the house juice. So as soon as we see an arbitrary unit stop loss/win we know this falls under the auspices of MM, not advantage betting.

Second: holy grail has no need to do more than flat bet since we will win more hands than lose and any bet increase will, overtime, produce the same percentage win as per the average bet size of all cumulative hands. Of course we could increase bet anytime we want in an attempt to increase shoe win rate. But that will require additional bankroll and the bankroll would be calculated to the ABS to eliminate risk of ruin.

So these guys in the private forum who say that they have a holy grail based on the 4D stuff are putting you guys on.

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. . . there is no holy grail. Let's get over this right now - logically. This should be obvious to everyone but being human we always want that magic formula.

First: a holy grail has no need to not bet due to a stop loss or stop win. A holy grail IS a holy grail because it can predict when a bet will win more times than not. So the only reason to not bet is due to our predictive criteria not being met. So we either have a known advantage bet or not. Doesn't matter how many times we lose that bet because eventually we will win more bets than lose AND pay the house juice. So as soon as we see an arbitrary unit stop loss/win we know this falls under the auspices of MM, not advantage betting.

Second: holy grail has no need to do more than flat bet since we will win more hands than lose and any bet increase will, overtime, produce the same percentage win as per the average bet size of all cumulative hands. Of course we could increase bet anytime we want in an attempt to increase shoe win rate. But that will require additional bankroll and the bankroll would be calculated to the ABS to eliminate risk of ruin.

So these guys in the private forum who say that they have a holy grail based on the 4D stuff are putting you guys on.

Sounds like you want a winning lotto ticket handed to you and you don't want to put an effort in.

A lot of people are using it and it has been around for awhile...so obviously it has some value.

Just how much value...????

Unless you purchase NOR or NOR+ or NOR4D you will really never know.

And oh, this game takes a bit of time to get good at...don't expect to destroy the casinos over night.

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Sounds like you want a winning lotto ticket handed to you and you don't want to put an effort in.

A lot of people are using it and it has been around for awhile...so obviously it has some value.

Just how much value...????

Unless you purchase NOR or NOR+ or NOR4D you will really never know.

And oh, this game takes a bit of time to get good at...don't expect to destroy the casinos over night.

??? ?? I have played thousands, literally thousands of live shoes and win. The point I am making is that there is no holy grail. IOW no one way to follow a bet selection system and/or a bet progression method such as U1D2M2 or any other progression and win. Bet selection is nearly meaningless. I can win at Baccarat by simply flipping a coin on each decision. Doesn't matter. It's a betting and money management game. NOR, 4D, etc. nothing wrong with them if you like them. It's good to have structure in the game to follow so you don't go crazy "chasing your tail." But one played by the rules is not superior to the other.

Once more. There is no holy grail as some on the private forum have suggest from time to time.

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So these guys in the private forum who say that they have a holy grail based on the 4D stuff are putting you guys on.

Blake,

And welcome to the forum to you, too! Nice introduction to the group. (where's my sarcasm font?)

I don't believe you'll find anyone in the "private" forum saying they have the Holy Grail. You're the one who is jumping in with both feet here.

Anyway, welcome aboard and here's hoping you can add the to collective knowledge of the players here.

MVS

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PS. I have all these systems and others as well. Sorry I didn't pay for them. Why would I?

Ha, we got a wannabe master thief here.

So you can learn, when, where, and how to play them with all the tricks of the trade.

Everyone here has a manual with all the systems. But no matter your IQ, you can't learn from a manual. Every member here will tell you they don't learn from their manual - they learn from the forum where eveything is clearly explained with examples. If they had to depend on their manual, they would be losing just like you. It takes work and effort and practice to learn how to beat a casino. You are up against full time professionals. You need a professional on YOUR side. Otherwise you are just thowing your money away. The avg Bac player loses more money every day he plays than BTC costs. They have every manual ever written too. Nobody cares what systems you got for free. You are still a guaranteed loser. You've already learned by now that I speak the truth. The members here are laughing at you! Many here knew the basic systems before they joined, too - for all the good that did them. That's why they joined. Something for nothing is nothing. Anyone here will tell you that.

If the manual could teach you how to play we wouldn't put them in public places.

My advice is stay away from casinos until you know what you are doing. You are probably a lot better off just continuing your adventures as a common thief.

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Stop pretending your stuff is that valuable!!!

???Thief??? A friend never gave you a CD or book to read? You’re being ridiculous. But what else is new? No worries Davis, I play my own way and collect systems for fun. I have no interest in disseminating your stuff. I seldom even bother to do more than skim over them.

My point was not about 4D but since you bring it up. This is one of the worst you have ever conjured up. Why? It is unnecessarily complicated. The casinos let us have paper and pencil for a reason. Many even post the popular charting Roads on a screen. Here is why in a nutshell: NO AMOUNT OF CHARTING WLL ALLOW THE PUNTER TO PREDICT MORE WINS THAN LOSSES!

Of course it is best to have a strategy (bet placement and money management) but wasting your time charting 8 columns is just about the dumbest thing you ever came up with – next to “Twister†and “Anti-Twister.†Those were super dumb.

Don’t get me wrong. There is some value in ALL strategies. It’s a free country and you have every right to sell system after system and the consumers can buy them or not. Makes no never mind to me. I find it all very humorous.

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Stop pretending your stuff is that valuable!!!

???Thief??? A friend never gave you a CD or book to read? You’re being ridiculous. But what else is new? No worries Davis, I play my own way and collect systems for fun. I have no interest in disseminating your stuff. I seldom even bother to do more than skim over them.

My point was not about 4D but since you bring it up. This is one of the worst you have ever conjured up. Why? It is unnecessarily complicated. The casinos let us have paper and pencil for a reason. Many even post the popular charting Roads on a screen. Here is why in a nutshell: NO AMOUNT OF CHARTING WLL ALLOW THE PUNTER TO PREDICT MORE WINS THAN LOSSES!

Of course it is best to have a strategy (bet placement and money management) but wasting your time charting 8 columns is just about the dumbest thing you ever came up with – next to “Twister†and “Anti-Twister.†Those were super dumb.

Don’t get me wrong. There is some value in ALL strategies. It’s a free country and you have every right to sell system after system and the consumers can buy them or not. Makes no never mind to me. I find it all very humorous.

Oh please let me be the first to respond to bake

1. I find that you coming on to the forum as a guest who hasn't joined to learn to solely bash the approaches to be a joke- yes I'm laughing at you

2. My 16 out of 19 +5 shoes using 4d are laughing at you too

3. Your remarks without knowledge they help us laugh at you.

4. As kdawg would say I am happy playing my way and I'm not moved by your remarks.

5. I am not moved by your propaganda, but find extreme humor in your use of the word punter.....

You may go back to your hole now troll, you're dismissed

I yell "winner winner chicken dinner on all naturals"

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Oh please let me be the first to respond to bake

1. I find that you coming on to the forum as a guest who hasn't joined to learn to solely bash the approaches to be a joke- yes I'm laughing at you

2. My 16 out of 19 +5 shoes using 4d are laughing at you too

3. Your remarks without knowledge they help us laugh at you.

4. As kdawg would say I am happy playing my way and I'm not moved by your remarks.

5. I am not moved by your propaganda, but find extreme humor in your use of the word punter.....

You may go back to your hole now troll, you're dismissed

Why do you guys get so defensive and make personal attacks? I didn’t say that the stuff had no value. It has value. How much is arguable. Play what you want.

Charting is fine - to a point. I chart. I’m just saying that 4D is unnecessarily complicated. What was wrong with NOR, ADOT, S40, Twister, etc., etc? Nothing? Well what’s the point of 4D then?

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