Jump to content

Atlantic City report - Caesars Palace 12/12-14 | ECD GROUP | December 14, 2014


Recommended Posts

I had to be in NY for two consecutive weeks, so thought a trip to AC was the obvious thing to do over the weekend. I didn’t wander around to any other casinos (it is winter here, and damn, is it cold for this SoCa boy), so I can only report on Bac at Caesar’s.

Caesars Palace – AC

All the bac tables are in an Asian game room located near the boardwalk entrance. I wouldn’t call it a high limit room – they just decided to put all the Asian table games in a separate room. The other “high limit†room at Caesar’s has BJ, roulette and craps – no bac. There are a variety of bac tables at Caesar’s, with a striking lack of consistency. There are 3-4 EZ bac (i.e. no commission) tables open most of the time, and they are, by far, the most crowded games and the lowest limits ($25). The EZ bac games are all no touch and the tables have the standard EZ bac tote board. There are several tables offering a “touch†game. Most of the time there were only a couple of these tables open. Saturday night there were more open– maybe 5-6, but at least a couple were “reserved.†These games are also not busy – usually empty except on Saturday night when there were a couple players at most tables, but there was always at least one empty just waiting.

I can confirm that all of the bac tables use pre-shuffled cards, which come to the table in a single box – looks exactly like the ones in Vegas. The no touch EZ bac games use two alternating decks with automatic shuffle machine, just like no touch games in Vegas. What is interesting is the variation in shuffles which occur with the new cards when they come to the table. In Vegas, everything is done the same at every table, and under the watchful eye of the pit critters. Here, it seems like the dealer can improvise, and the pit critter pays little attention to them while they are prepping the cards. I found each dealer doing things differently, and often just playing with the cards in a haphazard manner. This is just one of the MANY ways that this place feels very different (and not in a good way) from the Vegas experience. The dealers were friendly, but the supervisors and other players were not. Supervisors seem suspicious of everything. Dealers were not allowed to break down even a hundred dollar chip without calling over a supervisor to watch. The largest chip denomination in the tray at most tables was $500. Several tables were stocked with $1,000 chips, but I only saw a couple tables with $5,000 chips. All the casino procedures were old fashioned – like they are still using procedures from the 1950’s. It takes a good ten minutes to get a marker. They manually fill out a request form that two people bring to the table to have you sign. Then they disappear and eventually come back with marker, which is a multiple carbon copy form. The carbon doesn’t work well so you have to manually sign both copies. I asked about it at the cage and they told me every time there is a marker request someone from the pit has to go to the cage to view the signature card and copy of my photo ID. Are you kidding me? Are there no computers in AC?? The other interesting thing I noticed was all the security officers walking around the casino. They wear uniforms with a badge that make them look like police, and they are everywhere! During the day, I swear there were as many security walking around as patrons. I don’t know whether to be happy they are there, or concerned as to why they need to be. The environment does not create a lot of fun. Of course, for me, winning is the fun – but it is also nice to feel welcomed and enjoy some laughs with the players and casino staff while going about it. There was none of that here.

MDB+

So enough about the environment. How did MDB+ do?

The short answer is it did fine, but it was a grind. Over almost 80 shoes playing MDB+ I have experienced smooth sailing, with a win rate of 93% of all signals. Yes, I have had a loss of the progression and have lost shoes. But I take my loss and move on to another table, where I would quickly encounter very high win rates again. It was different here. First table, I lost a progression right away, before another progression started. So I was down 7 units in 15 minutes and off the table. I had never had that happen before, and the worst part of it was I violated one of my most important rules – never play the 1 stays 1 when a game starts with nothing but 1s and 2s (chop). So I was really down on myself and didn’t play anymore Friday night. It got better, but was tough.

I played 8 shoes total and lost a 3 bet progression 4 times. Never lost that many in one trip before—even when playing many more than 8 shoes. In the aggregate, I won less than 50% of my first bets; less than 50% of my second bets; and won 60% of my third bets. By far, the worst hit rates for all three bets than I have ever had. MDB+ still won 12 units over the eight shoes. So with my worst MDB+ experience so far, I still averaged 1.5 units won per shoe. Greatest System Ever. Greatest F*cking System Ever!

I was hoping to hit a big level up this trip, but came up a few units short. Just as well, I was getting too much attention even at the unit level I was at. It will be good to be back in Vegas where I can play big units and still be a small player.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great review, thanks way2fast

This sentence is especially interesting and useful

"I had never had that happen before, and the worst part of it was I violated one of my most important rules – never play the 1 stays 1 when a game starts with nothing but 1s and 2s (chop). "

thanks again

Pando

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Way2fast,

What you are explaining is almost exactly what I have been dealing with at the local casino here

in Socal. Touch cards come in boxes and the no touch have that machine like you stated however I am not

sure if it was you that mentioned about how they take the boxed cards to the back room and shuffle them there.

I am not sure if AC does the same thing but I do see a pattern of what you went through also the issue with failing

progression. That is great you had a large enough bankroll to ride the storm. I see you have certain signals you use when you

play MDB+ and I am not talking about the MDB+ rules of what to bet but what you need to see first before betting.

Like you mentioned you never play 1 stays 1 if you see a 1,2 chop pattern.. Do you have other rules for when 2's go to 3's or

2 stay 2's after to 3's? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I think you have tweaked MDB+ a little and I would really

like to have this information.. Thanks a million

P.S. Ellis his buddy how is the NORM system coming along? Can't wait for the rules

on that !!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Way2fast,

What you are explaining is almost exactly what I have been dealing with at the local casino here

in Socal. Touch cards come in boxes and the no touch have that machine like you stated however I am not

sure if it was you that mentioned about how they take the boxed cards to the back room and shuffle them there.

I am not sure if AC does the same thing but I do see a pattern of what you went through also the issue with failing

progression. That is great you had a large enough bankroll to ride the storm. I see you have certain signals you use when you

play MDB+ and I am not talking about the MDB+ rules of what to bet but what you need to see first before betting.

Like you mentioned you never play 1 stays 1 if you see a 1,2 chop pattern.. Do you have other rules for when 2's go to 3's or

2 stay 2's after to 3's? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I think you have tweaked MDB+ a little and I would really

like to have this information.. Thanks a million

P.S. Ellis his buddy how is the NORM system coming along? Can't wait for the rules

on that !!

I play the nine signals in the rules. I just don't take a signal triggered by 2's if the shoe starts super chop or perfect OTBL. Those shoes will spit out a million 2's and are too risky to be betting against a second liner or an end to the 2's I also don't take the signals triggered by a 4 in the second half of the shoe.

The cards I saw come in a sealed cardboard box from the factory, just like Vegas. Nothing like SoCa cards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had to be in NY for two consecutive weeks, so thought a trip to AC was the obvious thing to do over the weekend. I didn’t wander around to any other casinos (it is winter here, and damn, is it cold for this SoCa boy), so I can only report on Bac at Caesar’s.

Caesars Palace – AC

All the bac tables are in an Asian game room located near the boardwalk entrance. I wouldn’t call it a high limit room – they just decided to put all the Asian table games in a separate room. The other “high limit” room at Caesar’s has BJ, roulette and craps – no bac. There are a variety of bac tables at Caesar’s, with a striking lack of consistency. There are 3-4 EZ bac (i.e. no commission) tables open most of the time, and they are, by far, the most crowded games and the lowest limits ($25). The EZ bac games are all no touch and the tables have the standard EZ bac tote board. There are several tables offering a “touch” game. Most of the time there were only a couple of these tables open. Saturday night there were more open– maybe 5-6, but at least a couple were “reserved.” These games are also not busy – usually empty except on Saturday night when there were a couple players at most tables, but there was always at least one empty just waiting.

I can confirm that all of the bac tables use pre-shuffled cards, which come to the table in a single box – looks exactly like the ones in Vegas. The no touch EZ bac games use two alternating decks with automatic shuffle machine, just like no touch games in Vegas. What is interesting is the variation in shuffles which occur with the new cards when they come to the table. In Vegas, everything is done the same at every table, and under the watchful eye of the pit critters. Here, it seems like the dealer can improvise, and the pit critter pays little attention to them while they are prepping the cards. I found each dealer doing things differently, and often just playing with the cards in a haphazard manner. This is just one of the MANY ways that this place feels very different (and not in a good way) from the Vegas experience. The dealers were friendly, but the supervisors and other players were not. Supervisors seem suspicious of everything. Dealers were not allowed to break down even a hundred dollar chip without calling over a supervisor to watch. The largest chip denomination in the tray at most tables was $500. Several tables were stocked with $1,000 chips, but I only saw a couple tables with $5,000 chips. All the casino procedures were old fashioned – like they are still using procedures from the 1950’s. It takes a good ten minutes to get a marker. They manually fill out a request form that two people bring to the table to have you sign. Then they disappear and eventually come back with marker, which is a multiple carbon copy form. The carbon doesn’t work well so you have to manually sign both copies. I asked about it at the cage and they told me every time there is a marker request someone from the pit has to go to the cage to view the signature card and copy of my photo ID. Are you kidding me? Are there no computers in AC?? The other interesting thing I noticed was all the security officers walking around the casino. They wear uniforms with a badge that make them look like police, and they are everywhere! During the day, I swear there were as many security walking around as patrons. I don’t know whether to be happy they are there, or concerned as to why they need to be. The environment does not create a lot of fun. Of course, for me, winning is the fun – but it is also nice to feel welcomed and enjoy some laughs with the players and casino staff while going about it. There was none of that here.

MDB+

So enough about the environment. How did MDB+ do?

The short answer is it did fine, but it was a grind. Over almost 80 shoes playing MDB+ I have experienced smooth sailing, with a win rate of 93% of all signals. Yes, I have had a loss of the progression and have lost shoes. But I take my loss and move on to another table, where I would quickly encounter very high win rates again. It was different here. First table, I lost a progression right away, before another progression started. So I was down 7 units in 15 minutes and off the table. I had never had that happen before, and the worst part of it was I violated one of my most important rules – never play the 1 stays 1 when a game starts with nothing but 1s and 2s (chop). So I was really down on myself and didn’t play anymore Friday night. It got better, but was tough.

I played 8 shoes total and lost a 3 bet progression 4 times. Never lost that many in one trip before—even when playing many more than 8 shoes. In the aggregate, I won less than 50% of my first bets; less than 50% of my second bets; and won 60% of my third bets. By far, the worst hit rates for all three bets than I have ever had. MDB+ still won 12 units over the eight shoes. So with my worst MDB+ experience so far, I still averaged 1.5 units won per shoe. Greatest System Ever. Greatest F*cking System Ever!

I was hoping to hit a big level up this trip, but came up a few units short. Just as well, I was getting too much attention even at the unit level I was at. It will be good to be back in Vegas where I can play big units and still be a small player.

Well first we ALL need to thank way2fast for such an excellent and complete report.

I see things haven't changed at all at Caesars A.C. It always was the most unfriendly casino I ever played. Been kicked out of better places.

So way2fast only averaged 1.5 units per shoe with MDB+ at Caesars.

3 things about that:

1. Remember that casinos order preshuffled cards in card orders they specify. They order what they do best with.

Vegas tends to think random is their best card order so MDB+ has a very high shoe avg against Vegas preshuffled cards.

2. AC, at least Caesars, not nearly as close to random. Therefore MDB+ averages less in A.C.

But we are spoiled. Recognize that 1.5 units per shoe is STILL a record average. No one else in Baccarat is even close to that.

3. A player once said: "Show me a system that can guarantee ONE unit per shoe and I'll give you a million dollars for it."

See, way2fast realizes that and that's why, in spite of averaging 1.5 units a shoe, he is still saying that MDB+ is the best Bac system on the planet.

I'm wondering about an AC countermeasure??? Except in one instance MDB+ reacts to 2 of a kind.

I'm wondering if we should play AC reacting to 3 of a kind instead of 2.

What happens is your number of bets decreases but your hit rate on your fewer bets increases dramatically. I'm guessing we could get our AC performance up to about 3, maybe 4 units per shoe???

BTW, I very much like the common sense way2fast is attempting to apply to MDB+ in AC.

Recognize that for every event a given shoe is high in, it MUST be equally low in another event. That's TWO clues right there.

Basically what way2fast is saying is: Don't be found betting against an event that is already occurring more than normal.

You are much better off betting against the events that are occurring LESS than normal.

In other words: if an event is occurring more than normal wait for 3 of them instead of 2 before betting against them.

But meanwhile on events occurring less than normal bet against them after only 2.

Always remember, even though the system is mechanical, you are still allowed to use your head.

Way2fast, save your shoes. I would like to see how NB2Hi does with them.

I'm trying to get NB2Hi firmed up but you'll just have to bare with me. I'm running into every personal family business distraction you could possibly imagine right now.

Edited by Ellis
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Keith Smith changed the title to Atlantic City report - Caesars Palace 12/12-14 | ECD GROUP | December 14, 2014

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use