Ellis : MDB+ and MDB+ (with SAP)

[d0ma1n]

Hi Ellis,

I just purchased the MDB+ manual and going through it.

I think i still didn't understand it fully and need some clarification from you.

What is the difference between:

1. "MDB+ Rules (5 of a kind) Date: 10/1/14

and

2. MDB+ with SAP Date: 6/4/14

From my reading,

MDB+ only bet when we see the "triggers" and

MDB+ (with SAP), will start to bet when we confirm the MC events.

So, which approach are we using now ?

If possible, can you provide a sample shoes because i am a visual leaner.

Here are two live online shoes (https://www.m88sb.com/Main/Casino/)

P32112113241123431112231311131

P61124432121421111163613

Thanks.

d0ma1n

[brad01]

My play with original rules

I don't play exactly this way but this is how I started with original rules - they work

[brad01]

That's your first shoe

Goes +7 with only 1 3rd bet and that's online hand shuffled

Looks like OTBL NOR as well

[brad01]

error on play 27 should be 3 stays 3 not 2 goes 3

[d0ma1n]

brad01,

Thanks for the excellent chart.

Now i can SEE CLEARLY the EVENTS as it is not the same way we chart the SAP as before (by adding up the numbers).

Do you mind to share how you play MDB+ now ?

Cheers

d0ma1n

[brad01]

Pretty much the same as way2fasts rules and changes he made

I found hand shuffled cards and more biased cards it pays to wait for more events.

The original rules were made for factory preshuffled super random cards.

They don't work as well on biased so it pays to lengthen the events to allow for the bias

[d0ma1n]

In your comment, what it mean:

"T=3x>=2iar" ??

[brad01]

It's my shorthand writing for 'after 3 x 2iar or more events bet the next potential 1 stays 1'

[brad01]

In regards to the new MDB+ manual I don't know what it is and what you refer to as MDB+ with SAP.

Since I joined there was a manual with the initial rules but its basically a short list of triggers so you can get it off this forum.

Then there's an updated list of triggers that have a higher hit rate.

If you were using MDB+ with SAP then I guess you would use the SAP count to confirm that the events were relatively random and not biased

I suppose you could use the SAP count to determine which events were biased and stay away form them

EG if SAP count shows high 2's and you saw 212 or 222 then don't use next 2 goes to 3 trigger as it would be silly to bet against something when it is likely that there could be many 2's before a 3

Also in reverse if you saw 313 or 323 but the 4+ count was zero then maybe you would want to avoid betting 3 goes 4 until the count evened out - some 4+'s occurred - why bet something will happen when it is quite possible that there may not be a 4+ before a further 3 x 3's

These are the type of common sense things that way2fast and others mentioned they do to increase hit rate

Yes MDB+ is a mechanical system that wins as it is but it doesn't mean you have to take every trigger especially if it may be a little more risky than others

[d0ma1n]

Hi Brad01,

Thanks for the clear explanation. I need to start practising again as i was away from the forum more than a year.

the MDB+ (SAP) i mentioned about is from this sticky thread (Do not post on this thread. MDB Rules) by Ellis.

http://www.beatthecasino.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8117

System Selection: (SAP explained)

We use SAP to determine which of the 3 MDB systems to play or switch to.

I'm going to rename the 3 MDB systems here so that the system's name relates to the SAP counts.

S1 (BaS40) is played when 1's are the highest SAP count.

S23 (BaOTB4L) is played when either 2s or 3s are the highest SAP count.

S4+ (BaS40M1) is played when 4+ (4 or mores) are the highest SAP count.

We change systems immediately whenever the highest SAP count changes.

This part is where i am confuse as MDB+ (SAP) seems like playing NOR with SAP to me and there is no trigger to look for.

Your input ?

Thanks.

d0ma1n

[brad01]

I believe this was the start of MDB concept but then it evolved to how it is now so mdb is now 5 of a kind system using triggers

[d0ma1n]

Brad01,

I see, ok this clear another confusion. thanks.

I have a question here,

if we have 212211223223

now, we have 3 triggers (red 2).

after the first 3s, do we continue with the 2nd & 3rd trigger (which is also the same "to go to 3" as the first trigger) ?

Cheers,

d0ma1n

[brad01]

This shoe looks like biased for otbl. It could produce many 2's in a row without other events. I wouldn't bet on the 3 until you saw a 3 happen first. Then I would probably wait for 4 2's at least before going for a 3. Or avoid this bet.

Why bet that a 2 goes to 3 when the shoe is producing many 2's?

Better wait for 2 3's without a 2 and then bet 2 stays 2 because at least you are betting with the trend not against it

[brad01]

By the way just lately I have come to realise the first full potential of otbl. I would be focusing on playing that right on a shoe like this. You can hit +20 off that short run. If it continued like that you could easily hit +40 so I wouldn't be rushing to look for MDB bets when you have that in front of you

[William Looi]

Hi. I am new to MDB , I have study and go through MDB manual, nothing is written about SAP can anyone help me where to find information how to count SAP and give some example

[brad01]

can you go to SAP forum and read? also there is thread here written 'MDB - SAP perspective' - try this

[simontsui8]

Hi Brad.

What's wrong with play 27

I can see it is the bet on third 2s(not confirmed) after the trigger of two confirmed 2s( 15&16, 23&24), seems nothing wrong with it. Or does it overlap with other progression I didn't notice?

Thanks

[brad01]

Hi mate. Yes i believe you are right good pick up. I checked it thru and was looking for errors but maybe it was right first time. Thanks

[brad01]

2nd sho domain below: