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Hi Johny

If you have not found a way to consistently win with what you have here then I understand your frustration.

But I think there is enough here to make you a winner.

You maybe just need to go over what you have and work out which approach you like and then make it work for you.

In 1 year of joining this forum I have practised my arse off and learned and tried every approach and now I feel that everything is starting to come together for me and I am winning consistently.

I play combined approaches MDB+ / Same Side MDB+ / NOR / Pattern Break Method (my approach)

I never bet more than 2 units.

Sometimes flat bet, sometimes 1,2 loop, sometimes up as you win 1,2 , sometimes up as you lose 1,2,2 or up as you win 1,2,2

2 units is enough you don't need more than that and the rest comes down to hit rate, patience, discipline, tight stop loss and stop win.

As for Ellis's new site and LCNB good luck to him but what Keith said really hit it for me when he said what we have here is good, and its enough. we have dissected every way to play the game. 

We don't need more systems with fancy names we just need to use what we have to win and to refine that and to bounce ideas off each other. We have great players here.

That's why I decided this site is all I need and if I cant win with what I have here then I never will.

Johny I play every day and practise every day. I have won this morning, just a few units but it all adds up. I hope to be full time soon and the only thing that is stopping me is time as I have a business to run which consumes a lot of time but I know as long as I'm patient its just a matter of time before my BR will be big enough.

If you want me to send you scoresheets or info let me know. I'm sure there are guys more experienced than me that would help you but the offer is there. 

I would suggest you don't need to spend any more money on different approaches but speak to members here and find out how they win with what's here.

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The normal ebb-and -flow of the game (wins and losses) has always presented me with the greatest obstacle.

NOT for lack of understanding the 5th grade level math of the game.

NOT for mis-application of " systems" ,whether back in the day...or in the present.. ( frankly, it's still B/P, O/R....)

NOT because of hand-shuffled cards VS. pre-shuffled cards.

No, the biggest roadblock I have ever observed in playing, and watching others play, has always seemed to be the size of one's bankroll, and how to deploy it, monitor it, and protect it..

And I don't care how big your UNIT is .

( nothing personal, mind you...)

Whether you've got got one table, or 50 to choose from...and whatever bet amount " best suits you" ( $10 or $10,000), the      strategy one uses for " bankroll management" is Wayyyyyyyyyyy more important than the strategy one uses to determine whether to bet Banker or Player...

YES, I just said wayyyyyyyyyyy more important!

So enuff about LCNB vs. AD1 vs.MDB or even The Twist, or whatever...

IMHO ,Brad is correct.

A player can make any " betting strategy system" work, no matter the casino conditions.


Methinks we need to explore this further....



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As a system designer a system seller will always come up with new methods to make money.  Our program has a different philosophy as we will be giving all premium members access to everything we have including 2.2.1 and our Blackjack content.

We want to thank Kevin,  Way2Fast  and everyone for contributing to help each other.  You will never again see a $1000 systems here promising the next best thing.  This will be a community of people who want to help each other and we offer it for a small membership fee.  We will continue to have the free seminars at destinations at our own expense and we will embrace the philosophy that you can play and win as I did in Florida. 


Please look forward to having access to everything we have, everything that Stats for Profits will add  and and most importantly everything members  can contribute.  Mike and myself are moving as fast as we can to make this World Class.



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That sounds really great Keith, I was wondering what the new premium plan was. Having access to everything would be really awesome, I would be happy to join that.

You guys have really taken this forum to a new level

BR Management - yes I forgot to mention that.

What size bank do you need?

How many units?

What unit size do you play?

At what point do you go up a unit level?

But Kevin can you comment on this though: BR although important is pretty much common sense - start with a unit size you are comfortable with and then multiply that by the number of units you feel you need to be able to sustain some losing sessions - 3o units would mean you would have to lose 6 sessions straight at 5 units per session to wipe you out.

I feel if you can win consistently that is enough. (as a minimum) You can either win consistently or you cant. If you are winning consistently then you should be winning more than you are losing.

At the moment I am losing less than 1 in 5 and my winning sessions and losing sessions are about on par so that means for 4 sessions I am increasing my BR, and for 1 losing session it takes 1 to recover.

If you cant win at a rate like that or greater then you really have no right playing seriously, and need to keep practising until you can I feel.

When you double your BR then you can double your unit size and all the while I am putting extra units in to slowly increase my bank from 30 units upwards so as I go up in unit size I am building my bank as well to sustain a potential really bad run (which in theory should never happen.)

Eventually in theory you will get to the point where your unit size will permit you to take some $$ out as profit.

(I'm not quite there yet but hopefully a few months away)

All the while you keep practising and learning to make you a better player thereby increasing your winning sessions and decreasing your losing sessions.

The start is the hardest as you feel like you are playing for peanuts but as soon as you go up a few levels you will start to see the potential and things will get exciting as you suddenly realise that couple of units you are winning each time which before was nothing is now some decent $$ and its only gonna get bigger if you keep doing the same..

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And Kevin I understand what you mean about bringing many tools to the table now.

I play a multitude of approaches at the same time.

NOR, MDB+, SS MDB+, My own tricks and twists, other peoples,

The more you know the more high % betting opportunities you will see.

There is no HG - every system has a strength and a nemesis.

If you bring to the table a multitude of betting strategies its highly likely as the shoe unfolds something will click and you'll go 'wow look at that - that's a good bet to make'

Not many MDB+ bets but what a really strong Opposite bias lets grab a unit or 2 there if I can before its gone

Look at that pattern it just cant in reality (or highly unlikely) go on much longer now is the time to put up 1 or 2 units to bet it wont.

As Bruce Lee said - learn everything but keep what is useful, reject what is useless!


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Johnny I just noticed the new chat option on this forum.

This is ideal for playing live shoes.

What is your time zone?

Mine is GMT +8

Let me know if you want to chat and do a live play by play with online shoe?

Let me know what time / day is convenient for you and I will see if I can do it then?

Let me know

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On 12/19/2015 at 11:49 AM, johnnycs1 said:

Over on Elli's new web site....Papa Joe and a couple of other guys are saying Elli's new LCNB method ( least common net betting ) are doing well with it usin a 2Hi bet.......that was Norms favorite progression and also Papa joe's I think ? 

Anyone have a clue how this new method is ? Its about a thousand I think , to join that forum ........I'm way over that amount here, having bought in here for $500...plus seminars attended plus air fare , hotel , car rental........and still have nothing to show for that money invested over the last 5 + years ! So thats it ...not spending anymore and would appreciate any insight, thoughts on LCNB .



Hi JohnnyCS1,

Have you watch the Liberty Mutual TV commercial about the girl who named her car Brad?

It sounds like Ellis is repeating the Ultimate Net Betting Rules he created, plus adding the Least Common 4D approach, we  learned 2 years ago.

Where you start your entries immediately under the first circle on each side betting U1, D2, M2 with a goal of 20+. Allowing

only one losing entry under 2 or more and two losing entries under a single 1. Resume betting under the next circle on that side.

You're also, looking at the Lowest Spread in the 4D count to switch and apply the normal Net Betting method.

Edited by FrontAl

Be a Tracker and Hunt wisely!

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Hey FrontAl.

No haven't seen that ad but I can guess the principle of what its about - renaming old stuff to make it look different.

I tried netbetting and found the principles are good but trying to use it as a universal way to win all the time I don't think so.

Good luck to Ellis I sincerely hope he does well with his new website and book and systems etc

Hes been in the game a long time and he deserves success in what he does.

I haven't looked at LCNB and don't see the need to as I know what Keith said is right - we have dissected every possible way to measure and play the game here at one time or another. 

NOR, MDB+, Bias, Lack of Bias PB, OR, OT, OOTT, SAP, High disparity, No disparity, Flatbet, 1,2 loop, 122, 124, U1D1, U1D2, M2

We have guys right here who are consistent winners and to become one of them the answer is not to keep searching for the next HG system but to find the HG in yourself by tweaking what we have here.

I believe this forum is headed in the right direction and has stepped up to the next level with what Keith and the guys have done recently..



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