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Sorry for this silly question. I got a little confused on what exactly is the method for on the run.

What exactly does it mean when you go OTR - on the run? Does it mean that you go on one side until it hits? or do you switch sides and then go OTR?

Also, I know I am just starting to learn from the forum but I get this feeling that ECD's method has been favored to FTS. I bought the NOR Manual back in 2015. I had to put it in storage due to some a change in my lifestyle. After I settle in my new house, I found the manual again in the box that I had stored it and began studying it. The boot manual was just not working for me after I had put it all together and tested it. The outcome was just mediocre and not what was advertised. But then again, I did not go to the forum and started ask questions so here I am. I originally thought that NOR was to use the OR Count to determine what your next bet is. Then use S40, F or OTB4L. Now after reading some of the information on the forum, I am having to do an EVENT count and other methods on the card just to get an idea of what to bet next. I get this feeling that the OR count has been rendered useless.

Is the OR Count being used and how would you effectively use it because I was still not able to get an effective outcome after doing all the plus and minus counts. Sometimes I would just add the previous 4 minus/plus counts to give me a general direction of where the shoe is heading. I don't think this was what ECD had in mind.

Should I just abandon what I have learned in the manual and just study FTS? Seems like I should just wait until I get a trigger and then flat bet. Then run after I hit 3 units.

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  • Baccarat Hall of Fame Member


Somepeople think after 3IAR , you just keep betting for the run…

Some people think  NO, wait until after 4IAR, you just keep betting for the run..


( Either way, you can only lose once , you keep up betting on repeats...) 



          - What’s ,”happening “ in the shoe ( O/R)...bet accordingly...


          - 87% solution will help. 

          - I did not “ invent “ this ...it’s just the way it is...Call me 850-687-3128 you need help...


          - PBPBPBPB ( 11111111)  is just “ a run” , same as P8


( call me 850-687-3128 you need help...sorry, do not have time or inclination to answer all inquiries via this forum...) 

       - If UwereME, And you pretty sure you can win more bets than you lose? Spend time/$$ in the casino?    Or spend time with emails...)


Thinking you got it.


Edited by kachatz1
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and any other new players who are just beginning...


Read my lips.... 'CALL KEVIN😲 ☺️


When I first started I had no idea as to how to play Baccarat other than the rules to the game.

I called Kevin.


Then being "smarter than him" 😲😲😲 being the "Mr. Know It All" I went off on my own and spent an awful lot of time reading everything on the forum, testing and getting myself more thoroughly confused.

Eventually, I found myself gravitating back to 5D which is 4D plus FTS, MDB, etc...4D is the basis/basics. Everything else is on a higher level.

And that is why I am saying "CALL KEVIN" and don't waste your time as he knows everything there is to know on the forum and then some and can point you in the right direction.


Read the NOR manual. Sure. This is a beginning to get down the fundamentals. But, don't spend too much time there. McVince said he was not able to make NOR work for himself (and McVince is an intelligent guy). Eventually, he created VinSAP, which is a viable method for winning too.  In it he uses a SAP count which over time has been modified. And that is why I recommend...



A new person does not have to go thru what myself and others have gone through in trying figure out how to win at this game. There are no quick fixes. IT doesn't come easily as there is work that needs to be done. But, it shouldn't take you more than a year - like it did for me.


Ohhhh. and did I mention..... "CAL... LOL 

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Kevin ... Thank you for your generous offering to help. I'll definitely give you a call. Once I get everything down and learn about 5D and 87%. I still haven't gotten it yet so I don't want to ask silly questions that would just embarrass me more. LOL !!!

Jimmy ... I appreciate your reply with your great advise. Makes me want to call Kevin now!

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