witchygal
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Posts posted by witchygal
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Hi Witchygal,
do you know the answer to my question below?
rgds,
Raymond
Sure Raymond.
The play is totally correct. I will explain it here.
Hand 39 is S40 mode 2. So we go OTR after lose 2 times. When in mode 2, follow 1 more time before coming back to opposite.
As you see hand 40 the OTR has lose. So we need to go back playing opposite with S40.
So on hand 41 we are betting opposite against player at hand 40, hence the bet on banker.
Hand 45, we go OTR but lose. So we go back to progression of 1 unit by playing opposite the result of hand 45.
Hand 47 is the same. Still playing opposite with S40.
Hope this helps.
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Witchy, I didn't mean to put you on the spot. If you can't post a shoe picture just post one using our short cut method requsting that somebody else post the picture.
No worries. We are all here to learn. I have posted the shoe and welcome comments from all members.
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Hmmm, all I was trying to point out is that I didn't abandon the net bet thread. I was 1200 miles away and preoccupied.
Standard NOR already uses SAP to determine when to go OTR. The 3rd bet rule is SAP.
For instance, say you are playing OTB4L. What you are interested in is which you are seeing more of 4s or 5 or mores so that you know when best to go OTR, if at all. There is only an average of 2 4s and 2 5 or mores in an entire shoe. And the first one doesn't count because you are not betting on it. If the shoe is streakier than that, you would not be playing OTB4L. You would be playing F.
So usually you are making your decision based on the last 4 or more event. The 3rd bet rule gives you the correct SAP play based on the last 4 or more which is usually the only 4 or more. The 3rd bet rule gives you the latest SAP information.
So if you are saying that Modes are not reliable, you are, in fact, saying that SAP is not reliable with preshuffled cards. That is what I'm going by.
If that is the situation you have two choices:
Stay in mode 2 and bet a 0123 prog on your OTR bets that is independent of your regular 123 prog. Note that I didn't put a 4 on the end of either prog because Mode 2 has no 4 bet.
The other choice is to net bet in the way I'm proposing. In that case you don't care whether a run goes 4 or 5 because in both cases you are already on the run. The whole OTR decision is eliminated.
It is just semantics but your last statement is backwards. SAP is 100% mechanical. Every bet is based on either MC or LC. It is NOR that is not fully mechanical because you have to decide on which system to play as well as if and when to go OTR. Once you are making decisions it is no longer mechanical.
Thanks Ellis. So if you are not 1200 miles away and preoccupied now, maybe you can reply to your own post and post the play by play for net betting as promised.
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Well, I was teaching it at the seminar. But also rather than teach a short version just to fix XDX when you have a tied SAP count (quite rare) I'm thinking a full blown version designed for random cards as well as biased cards would do everyone a lot more good, especially our Singapore players. I'm thinking that since the NOR Modes are not doing well against your preshuffled cards in Singapore, you might prefer a modeless system??? Quite frankly, I don't think SAP will do well against Singapore cards either for the very same reason but I'm anxiously awaiting your report on that. I could be wrong. I remember once back in '54 .....
Hah so those who couldn't make it to the seminar will not be able to learn anything. It's like throwing a wet blanket over you know? Ellis, you already knew that we were facing modes problems in Singapore and Asia casinos and i believe that this happens worldwide too with preshuffled cards. Changing the NOR play method to mode 2 with a progression within a progression may seems cheaper to the units incurred but it also does not rectify the problem.
Witchy, remember that Modes are based on SAP too. That is why I have my doubts about SAP against preshuffled cards. Can you confirm? Or deny?Yes i agree SAP will guide you which to bet and indirectly it replaces modes. However SAP is not mechanical like NOR. We change when the values change. NOR is more mechanical.
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Thanks for replying Ellis.
Somehow i thought information on playing baccarat are to be taught and shared generously between members in the private forum for free. Charging us for a "new system" seem unjustifiable.
Moreover you haven't even reply to the OvR Net Betting thread over at Universal Baccarat thread after the XDX fiasco. I would ask that you don't leave thread postings halfway hanging and if you would take some time off your busy schedule to reply promptly, i believe it will certainly benefit more members here.
Of course these are my personal opinion and i hope you don't get offended by what i said.
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Hi Ellis,
Hope that the AC seminar went great. Can anyone share an update on what was being taught during the seminar? I believe many of us are looking forward to learning the new NORSAP or NORA.
Could you post something soon to feed our appetite?
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Yes Raymond, Harrican told me about the player 7 table. I have never been to MBS yet but i think we better stick to the normal baccarat game.
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Welcome Raymond!
For a start you may be overwhelmed by the information here. I suggest you read the following threads to build the basic first.
The NOR Approach
http://www.beatthecasino.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6409
NOR Questions & Answers (old thread)
http://www.beatthecasino.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6393
NOR Sample Games
http://www.beatthecasino.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6665&page=2
Download the NOR Manual and read it.
Then read this thread on the NOR Manual questions
http://www.beatthecasino.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6658
Hope this helps.
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Keith,
Your playing style gives me a heart attack! -27 and still going at it. It takes alot of nerves to play like that.
The progression just keep getting higher! Gosh! -
I like the idea of flat betting when you are losing which NOR normally does.
Ellis did you mean NOR normally does lose? Lol
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Thanks Keith.
That's a reasonable amount to buy in. I guess we have to be "lucky" at the shoes then.
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Hi Keith,
So may i ask how many units did you brought with you before playing that shoe in Hollywood? If you had lose the 3456 (total -18) would you have tried another shoe with your left over bankroll or you will just go home?
Play for your stakes and stay there you are most vulnerable when you raise the stakes.Hi Keith,
I believe your direct answer will be a good reference for all of us newbies. Kindly reply to the above when you can.
Thanks,
Witchy
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Hi Keith,
So may i ask how many units did you brought with you before playing that shoe in Hollywood? If you had lose the 3456 (total -18) would you have tried another shoe with your left over bankroll or you will just go home?
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Hello,
2.5 months at genting including 2 nights slept at lobby due to christmas.
I modified nor to flat betting because 1234 doesnt suit with genting`s environment. I do not need table selection again because my method doesnt need it and the beautiful thing, with just flat betting, i can produce profit daily.
What i think is, 1234 or 345 is superb when i find superb bias table. But here, maybe from 20 shoes, only have 1 bias shoe. So lose 4 in a row here is a common thing. Dat means if i use 1234 i will lose 10 units. It is not easy to recover from -10. So i modified nor.
I already have 3 people in my group, all from btc asia. They try my method and it works well and safe.
Lets burn the table
I agree with Core. As the modes changes too much, we tend to lose 123 and even the OTR bet. As long as there is a safer way of playing and producing profit, i don't see any harm in modifying NOR to suit individual playing style.
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It wasn't real hard betting on an 8 in a row. I wish I was betting up as you win.
What if it isn't 8 in a row? The 3456 could have been -18! Wooh.....you mean you can predict the future?
I myself can't play with limited table selection and play tight to -8 and 1,2,3 I would never get to play. In Vegas yes I'm the first one to say ok we are at +8 were outta here ( and I was), but I don't have those conditions here. So i increase the risk and the progression to etch out wins. Christ Kit we have been down a 100 units and came all the way back and then some when playing in turning stone and foxwoods. From those experiences it is very hard for the casino to beat you if you have the system matched and play up 1 down 1 or 2. Ron and myself proved it's hard for them to beat you if you play the same system and have a bank roll and just keep going at them. It takes balls. But in a non table selection situation I would say you can expect to change systems more often. If you have table selection cherry pick your spots with NOR.So you mean we need to have a substantial bankroll when we play. If the bankroll is too small, we will not be able to fight back again. Hmm maybe you are right.
If possible can you post more hard shoes examples? As over here there are getting lesser and lesser bias shoes. They are mostly mixed. A few of us find it difficult to play and come out as a winner.
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Yes, for sure. I already mentioned how it should have been played to NOR standards.
So OK we knew that the table was spitting out long runs. So fine, NOR allows for that by simply staying on runs until you lose. But from there the NOR 3rd bet rule works perfectly in this shoe for determining Mode giving you a highest bet of 3 and +18 units W/O having to resort to U1D1. Other than staying on the runs all he had to was follow the manual. No switches were necessary.
I was just trying to be polite about it.
I was also trying to change the subject. But nothing much gets by you does it Witchy. Good call!
Hah Ellis i was just trying to make sure i am learning the correct way. As you have mentioned before, there is no future in switching after you decided on a system. So i was wondering why Keith had switched 3 times in that shoe which just ran a short 36 plays.
The aggressive progression also scare me. I would not bet a 3456 at this stage in time. Of course i know that both Keith and yourself are experience players and perhaps he have his reason for making those bets.
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Went through the score card and saw that Keith actually chose to stay mode 3 for all 4 times even though he changed from OTB4L to S40 and then to F.
I noticed that he did not quit the shoe as well even at -10.
From a +7 to a -10 in a mixed shoe........Does this defies NOR standards?
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Ellis so do you mean that when we play mode 2 we should play the same mode for the whole shoe? Same for mode 3?
Previously we were taught to start mode 3 and if it lose, we would change to mode 2 next. So in 1 shoe, we would be changing modes a few times.
Either which, i feel that it is still 50/50 as there is no confirmation that modes can win consistently in a shoe.
Is it beneficial if we play 1 mode for the entire shoe?
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Sorry Witchy - I think you misunderstood me. SAP does not help determine the mode - it
makes the modes unnecessary. Modes are used to determine when to go OTR and how
long to stay OTR. For me the SAP count and LC and MC determine those bets, so there
is no need to worry about modes. As Ellis has said, it sounds a lot more difficult than it is
when playing
Paul
Hi Paul,
Yes what i mean is how to place the bets using SAP? For example if i am playing S40 and then encounter 1,2 lost and now i'm suppose to choose which mode to use, what i mean is perhaps i can refer to SAP to place the bet instead of having to choose between mode 2 or mode 3.
It would be great if you can post a live shoe using SAP to show us the bets decision.
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The way I play the SAP count usually overrides the NOR decision. You must have a strong indication from the SAP count. If it is close
I might ignore it and stay with the system. This is something you get the feel for after a while.
SAP actually replaces modes for me. You don't need to know what mode to play if the SAP count
is giving you LC and MC. I never worry about modes.
Hope this helps
Paul
Hi Paul,
Can you give an example of how SAP helps to determine which mode to be in?
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Why would it be player instead? I switched to OTB4L after play 22.
Oh sorry i mean for the last shoe. First one you play correctly.
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Why would it be player instead? I switched to OTB4L after play 22.
Yes correct. Since you already lost 123 (mode 3 lost), the 4 units you should go OTR which is opp. However seeing your chart, you are actually play OTB4L the 4th time.
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Very nicely done for your first time playing NOR! Congrats!
For the first shoe the last bet you should place OTR on player and won instead. The modes change is still a headache for many of us.
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Yes more practice and you will get the hang of it.
I will chart all 3 systems for the shoe and compare which is the best to use. You will also discover the overlapping advantage in each system and how good you score for each system.
How to bet after 3 losses?
in BeatTheCasino.com Q and A Baccarat and Blackjack
Posted
You are welcome Raymond