witchygal
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Happy Halloween to all members!
Today also happen to be my birthday (the reason for my nick) and i decided to make a trip to the casino to try out NOR after studying and practicing for a whole week! I also feel lucky since it's my birthday!
Here is my trip report to share with all of you.
Reached the casino and remembering what i learned step by step, i took a score card and planned how to chart by writing down the various columns in vertical mode (OR, P, B, Score). Next i went around looking at the toteboards and try to spot a bias table. I observed quite a while and playing NOR in my head to test out my accuracy. I also counted the OR and SAP to check which system to play.
After roaming around for 1 hour, i finally found a very bias table and with confidence, i buy in and started playing.
First shoe i played today with very strong S40
P211111111121111211 (i start playing after these came out)
So the following were the hands i played
B111121211115122
P221111223223
The whole shoe ended.
Result was +13 units at $25 each. The highest i hit was +20 and I used 123 prog and never had to bet more than 2 units. OR at the last hand was +23! Very strong S40 right? I could have changed to 234 or 345 but since it is my first time playing NOR and to be safe i stick to 123. I could have stopped playing at my highest +20 but i wanted to finish the whole shoe. Nevertheless it was a good game!
Next i took a 30 mins break and after that continued to find a good table.
Spotted another bias table at the smoking zone similar to the first shoe i played! Jumped in without fear and played S40 too!
2nd shoe was as follows:
B1121121122 (after seeing these and double check i started playing)
Started from these hands:
P121512112128
P2211412122
B12111111
The shoe ended. OR count at last hand was +10.
Result i scored +15 units at $25 each and also using 123 prog. This score is the highest for this shoe. I know i know, i should have used 234 or 345 but i did not again. Too excited and happy because i'm playing with confidence and totally different from my previous trips to the casino. Last time i was betting with fear and playing the guessing game. Now that i learned NOR, it changed the game totally for me!
Total 2 shoes played today with +13 and +15 = 28units @ $25 = $700 and I got my membership fees back!
I played non-commission table so it's really awesome for my first time results. I am so glad i found this forum and more glad that i learned NOR!
Thank you so much Dr. Ellis and Keith for putting up this awesome system so that we can become consistent winners and players! I will continue to practice hard and learn more!
This concludes my first trip report and applying NOR at the game. For those who are hesitating to join the private forum, you are missing out on real solid stuff! Please join if you want to be a winner!
Lastly Happy Halloween to all! Have a spooky time!
(P.S. It's 11.40pm here in Singapore and my birthday is nearly over. Still, i am a really happy girl today!)
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Hello,
I cant find nor manual here. What i found was s40 n f2. No table selection manual too. Or it just based on OR count? Need guidance. Thx
Hi Core,
Welcome to the private forum! You made it! First download the S40 and F2 manual and read them so that you know how the system works. The examples in the manual will teach you how to count OR and SAP.
Then go read THE NOR APPROACH thread and the NOR Questions & Answers. All the steps are explained inside the threads. Practice on some shoes provided by the members with the 3 systems yourself and you will slowly understand.
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Witchy, I've been trying to get back to that prior list of questions you had but your middle question was about latest Modes. You aren't seeing this quite right yet. No such thing as "latest Modes". The Modes have always been exactly the same. What changed was merely terminology.
When you read the preliminary NOR manual (The NOR Approach) it is best to start at page 9, the first page written, and work forward. There will shortly be a formal, hard copy NOR manual with all the terminology corrected.
When I started the preliminary NOR manual, I was referring to Modes according to the length of run you were betting under so I said things like "Mode 5" referring to your bet under a 5 in a row.
But then I realized we could standardize to only Modes 2 and 3 for all 3 NOR systems if we went by the number of losing bets rather than the number of circles in the run.
Therefore,
Mode TWO means: After TWO losing bets either stop betting or bet OTR (On The Run)
Mode THREE means: After THREE losing bets either stop betting or bet OTR
Whether you stop betting and wait for the run to end or Bet OTR is decided by if you are seeing runs or not. If you are seeing none of very few runs, there is no point in betting on them. You are further ahead to simply stop betting and resume your system when the run ends. Nor can you simply keep betting forever against all runs. Suppose it goes 9. So, we let the shoe tell us the optimum time to stop betting in that particular shoe as well as whether to bet OTR or wait.
Our next question is once on a run, how long do we stay OTR???
Our rule of thumb is:
Mode 2 try for 2 OTR bets
Mode 3 try for only one.
BUT, if we are seeing lots of long runs (as you seem to be seeing in your casino) then our reasonable course of action is to stay on all runs until they end. Just remember to make separate judgements on ZZ vs straight runs when you are playing OTB4L. On the other hand if we are not seeing long runs we might even not want to risk a second OTR bet in Mode 2. I, very often find myself in that situation at the casinos I frequent. Just the opposite of what you seem to be seeing. All this is determined by a particular casino's card prep and shuffle. So we must be alert to where we are. All casinos are not the same.
Now the most important question Mode brings up: Which Mode should we be in. That is the easiest part. We usually start in Mode 3 until the shoe tells us otherwise. This doesn't cost us anything the way we do it.
System 40: You lose 2 bets to the first 3 in the shoe. STOP and see what would have won. If the 3 stays 3 we are in Mode 3. If the 3 goes to 4 we are in Mode 2 BECAUSE our 3 bet would have won OTR after 2 losing bets.
So in S40 we are interested in 3s vs 4s.
We do OTB4L the SAME way except OTB4L is interested in 4s v 5s instead of 3s v 4s because it is already ON the run for the first 2 circles instead of only the first circle. Also with OTB4L it is critical to look at straight and ZZs separately. 40 is already ON all ZZs.
We do F the same way except F is only interested in 2s v 3s on the wrong side but the decision is still made after 2 or 3 losing bets.
Now, once in a Mode you simply stay in that Mode until it proves wrong. Sometimes it never does. In those shoes +20 or more is virtually guaranteed. esp if we advance to 234 or 345 but DO NOT advance in Mode 3, only Mode 2. You will see why as soon as you try it. Once a Mode loses an initial OTR bet, regardless whether you actually made the bet or not, it changes Modes unless, in spite of the loss that Mode won the most often. Ties go with the latest information.
I realize this all sounds a bit much at first but you'll soon see that it is all plain common sense.
But, will you two see it by next week? Ha, maybe not. You guys are scaring me by talking about going to a casino so soon and you know what? You shouldn't scare old people.
Thank you Dr. Ellis for your explanation.
I know the latest NOR systems only consists of mode 2 and mode 3. My confusion was due to the sample shoes posted in past threads and i have seen that members played it differently then and there was as high as 5 losing bets before changing sides?
Now it is simply losing 2 or 3 times before we switch side or stop betting.
S40 mode 2 or 3
F2 or F3
OTB4L mode 2 or 3
that is all in the latest version of NOR am i correct?
Lol i am not scaring you Dr. Ellis. I will make sure that i've practiced enough and understood the 3 systems before i step into the casino. Have a good day!
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You are right - a lot of questions. I'll try to get to all of them.
In the shoe you detail the SAP count at the time the run of 13 occurred was 12-8-15-4
I would have been in S40, so I would have won the 2 bets prior to the run and the first
in the run. I would have lost the next bet. Looking at my SAP chart I see 2's usually go
to 3, so I bet P and win the next bet (2 units). Next, seeing that 3's usually do not go to
4, I would bet B and lose the next bet (1 unit). At this point I might do one of 2 things:
sit out a hand or jump on the run. If I sit out, I jump on the run next hand. Either way I
am going to hit 8-9 wins. After the run I probably quit. I would not go to F based on one
run. If I stayed in S40 I would be about even the rest of the shoe
You are correct in all 3 examples of OTB4L.
As far as the modes are concerned, with my use of SAP modes are unnecessary. I just
go by the chart
I like to join the shoe when I get a clear indication of what to play. That could come
at any time. I don't have any rule as far as entering the shoe. You will get a feel for
it as you gain experience
Hope this helps.
Paul
Thank you Paul! Finally someone answered my questions!
So just for discussion purpose, S40 will be a better system for this shoe? Will OTB4L work as well? Like you say i would probably get out too once i hit the winning units and not stayed till the streak anyway.
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Right, unless table selection tells us otherwise we usually don't bet at all until the system reveals itself. Then we flat bet at 1 until the Mode reveals itself. If there are no revelations we get out. We don't wait for -8.
The more biased a shoe is the more we like it. We don't waste time in bad or mediocre shoes. There are other tables - usually.
On the other hand, we need to be just as quick to upgrade to the 234 and then 345 in good shoes where we are getting a good hit rate on out first bets - our 1 bets. It is important to exploit good shoes to make up for bad shoes. There is such a thing as being TOO conservative. You don't want to be gun shy when you have the shot.
Sometimes we make the mistake of talking too much about the bad shoes and not enough about the good shoes.
Yes Dr. Ellis i understand totally what you mean.
I understand too and, in fact, some members have needed more than 20 units to start and some did fine with only 20. But usually luck had little do do with it and preparedness had a LOT to do with it.But we have all these flim flam guys on the internet who teach in terms of "risk of ruin" and "lifetime bankroll". I suspect core has had some dealings with such con artists. They talk in terms of 500 unit lifetime bankrolls. Really, that's just to give them time to get out of town before their victims realize they have been scammed. These guys go a long way to ruin my industry which I created. When I started I was the ONLY Baccarat instructor in the world. But I made a LOT of money and that draws competition and that draws riffraff. Half of these jerks have never even seen the inside of a casino. Such is the internet world we live in. And I end up picking up the pieces. Many members here will confirm that.
We ALL have good days and bad days in casinos. INCLUDING ME. Casinos have periods when they are vulnerable and periods where they aren't. It depends on crowd size, day of the month, weather and a whole host of things.
These scammers don't understand that. They would have you go into your "lifetime bankroll" on the inevitable bad days. That is the downfall of most players. That helps create the 26% casino profits. That is exactly the WRONG thing to do.
Now, I'll bet you are saying to yourself, "yeah, he's right! I remember those bad days. I should have got my ass OUT of the casino!" Aren't you.
Here is what I teach. It is very, very scientific: When you are losing your ass get your ass OUT of the casino. It is not going to turn around. The casino has it together that day. Surrender! Leave! DON'T think in terms of lifetime bankroll. That is for losers. Get your ass out of there while you still have one. I want core thinking that 20 units is ALL the money he has to work with. That is a healthy way to think.
Ha, that is about as scientific as you have to be. But every member here knows from experience exactly what I'm talking about, including you two, don't you.
Every member here has gone past a -8 stop loss. The WORST thing that can happen is when it WORKS. Because now you are destined to try the same stupid thing again.
Sorry to be so blunt. But on some subjects, that is what is called for.
I guess now Core should have an idea of what you are trying to talk about. I totally agree with what you have said as some of my friends have bad experiences with those "con artists" as well. I guess it's time to get them to join BTC! But i have to prove to them my results first before they are convinced lol.
My bankroll is always $1000 when i step into the casino but my cut loss is $300 so i will not go beyond that. We need to be disciplined too so that we will be a winner. Now with your systems in place and discipline, i do not see why we cannot win.
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thanks for your responses witchygal !!!
That's the idea to be in the NOR forum and all together against baccarat. but it is expensive to me so far, I am trying to find some friends to share the cost.
when do you estimate you will be back in the casino? I think it will be your final test
Thanks Danicito, i will probably go in 1 or 2 weeks time after making sure i've learned all that i should learn and also including practice and practice! =)
Witchygal,I would suggest that you do not use a prog at the start of the shoe unless history of the table gives you confidence on what type shoe it is. Start with a flat bet until you are + 3-5 units and pretty sure of the shoe type, then start your progs.
Bill
Thank you Bill. I like your suggestions especially for a beginner like me. Appreciate it! =)
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Hello witchygal
I am newbie here as well and I am very interested in NOR also. Its good to know that newbie members just like me are in here, I am not alone
I have read your recent comments about NOR and I would like that you can response some questions.. I will appreciate it.
- is it easy to learn or do you have experimented some hard time to learn it?
- do you have to make some additional notes in the score card beside regular notes?
- is it completly different from the way you used to play before?
Thanks
Hi Danicito,
My answers to your questions are based on my own opinions after joining the private forum.
1. NOR (consist of 3 systems) and are easy to learn. I read the explanations a few times and understood it.
2. Yes on the score card i also put it O/R count and SAP counts. I believe if you want to learn something, learn all of it.
3. I would say yes because with NOR, i know the next time i will not be guessing on my bets. NOR tells you what to bet.
Hope to see you and Core in the private forum! Let's all learn together and win! =)
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Witchygal, i notice that u are newbie just like me. What are your opinion about NOR so far? It,s nice to find asian in this forum. Maybe you can go to malaysia to play together as a team since singapore not far from malaysia
Hi Core,
Yes i just joined the private forum 3 days ago on sunday! If you have played baccarat and understand the rules, you will know why the systems can be applied successfully in the game! I have spent 3 days pouring all over the content in the private forum and i practically live and breathe baccarat even during sleeping hahah.
My opinion is that the system will definitely help us play the game better and eliminates the guessing part. Before i have any knowledge of the system, i placed my bets on guessing whether next hand is banker or player by looking at the 4 other charts (bead road, big eyes, small road and cockroach) and they are sometimes right and sometimes wrong. Now that i learned NOR, i know i dun have to anymore.
I am currently practicing shoes on paper with the 3 systems i learned and once ready, i will step into the casino again and i know i'll win!
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Hi again core! First, forget "risk of ruin". That is a loser mentality term used by instructors who need that term because they lose. You are not there to lose.
OK, we buy in at 20 units. BUT only 8 of those units are in play. The other 12 units are only to make it easier to get comps, if that applies at Genting. Our strict stop loss is -8 units and we seldom go even that far.
Now, stay out of the casino until you have learned NOR completely, including table selection. You strike me as being over anxious. Genting will still be there next week and next month.
Your first goal is to win your FIRST NOR session. Good table selection will make this easier and more assurred.
But you must practice first until you can play NOR flawlessly. You have met me now. For you, Baccarat is no longer a game. Now it is a job! You must now learn how to do your job! And that is my job.
But to answer your question directly: if you follow my instruction to the letter, 20 units should be more than enough.
Lol Dr. Ellis,
I understand Core's concern as let's say if we really did proper table selection and have checked O/R and SAP counts and picked a system but "SUPER UNLUCKY" we placed our 1st 3 bets in progression 123 (6 units) and 3 times we all lose the bets. Then what shall we do if our cut loss is 8 units and there are 2 more units left?
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Hi Witchygal,
Nice to have you in our World's Best Baccarat Forum, especially with our great Father of Modern Baccarat, Dr. Ellis teaching us on his NOR, the integrated World's Best Baccarat Winning Approach!
I live at Johor Bahru, Malaysia and Chua Chu Kang, Singapore. I often play baccarat at Resort Worlds Singapore, Marina Sands Singapore and Genting Casino Malaysia. Still learning from Dr. Ellis and BTC.
I think we are all privileged to learn Baccarat from the World's Best.
I am trying to organize BTC member networking in Malaysia and Singapore, there are now only a handful of us. So, if you or other BTC members here are interested, please feel free to PM me your contact numbers, ok?
Yours Sincerely,
JohnMalaysia (MBA. BBA)
University Putra Malaysia.
University of Cincinnati, USA.
Hi John,
If you could organize a gathering that would be great! I am interested to join you in any discussion or go together for live shoes at RWS or MBS. I am now still studying the 3 systems and practicing on paper first. Perhaps next week i will be ready to go practical for the first time! Let me know ok?
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So that is to say if we combine O/R count and SAP count and then choose a table which is biased, we will have a good chance of winning?
I feel that SAP helps to determine the LC and so we will know to go mode 2 or mode 3? But how often do we need to check SAP? Every 10 hands? Also for O/R count do we need to monitor the change in it as well so that we will always be prepared to change our system if necessary?
For e.g. if a shoe goes choppy but mid way changed drastically with a long streak of 13, how do we know SAP will help since there are no indications before the streak. This is only an example shoe i quote but do we play S40 in first 2 columns? then the 13 streak comes will S40 still work or should we change to F? This kind of shoe i have seen many times in Singapore casino.
E.g. B 31211411321
p 31211123311
P [13] 21241321
I am still not sure about the latest NOR modes. Are these correct? Can you enlighten me on the various 3?
1. S40 - lose 3 bets or 4 bets before changing side?
2. F2, 3 - when to lose 2 and when to lose 3 before changing side?
3. OTB4L - still a little confused on this. Also how many times to lose before changing side?
OTB4L means bet on the side opposite the win before last win right?
so if it is BB we bet P,
BP we bet P
PP we bet B
PB we bet B
Correct?
Also how many hands is appropriate before we join the table and play? Will 15 to 20 hands be better than a 40 to 60 hands? Normally a shoe ends around 74 hands from what i noticed in Singapore casino (8 decks) The long streaks normally comes in mid shoe and if i wanna play it safe, would it be better to join early or catch the ending phrase?
Sorry but i think that's a lot of questions one shot. Please dun mind me. =P
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Of course, you must realize by now that we are expecting you to entice at least half of Singapore to become BTC members! Work a deal with Keith. He's always up for that sort of thing. Me? I just teach.
Lol Dr. Ellis you are a funny man! I will put what i learn to test first. If it works for me then my friends will be amazed and join! I am a pretty good affiliate marketer you know. That's what i do for a living anyway hee hee.
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Let's go back to your SAP question: I can teach NOR from several different perspectives. One good but somewhat complex way is to teach NOR from the SAP perspective. At first, I chose that perspective because I was teaching students whom I had already taught SAP.
But for new students unfamiliar with SAP there is a simpler way. What is it we really need to know to play NOR successfully? We know that the 3 NOR systems each have their likes and dislikes from an events perspective. Each has events it likes and events is doesn't like to various degrees.
For every event a shoe is high in it mathematically MUST have event(s) that it is equally low in. THAT is a given mathematical FACT we can use to our advantage in system selection.
Yes, SAP is good for that. Given. But there is a simpler way. What we really need to know is which events is the shoe at hand high in and which events is it correspondingly low in. We can use our law of NORMAL mathematics which is:
Normally there will be:
a 1 every 4 plays
a 2 every 8 plays
a 3 every 16 plays
a 4 every 32 plays and so forth
See that? It helps that we have our card in 20 play columns. Now mind you, we are not talking here about the or mores. We are only talking about completed events.
Are 1's occurring more or less than 1 every 4 plays?
Are 2's occurring more or less than 1 every 8 plays?
And so forth
To each his own BUT let me point out one thing here: SAP has an advantage here over NOR. However slight, we can always use all the advantage that we can get.
It came up in a shoe Keith and I were playing side by side at Hollywood that I was playing exactly to the posted NOR rules to verify the posted rules.
The shoe called for OTB4L and all of our bets were the same until we got to about hand 15. Then I note that my bet is on Bank and Keith is on Player. So I check my bet. No, my bet is right. Under NOR rules, OTB4L ALWAYS bets opposite a 2 in a row and there had just been 2 Ps.
What are you doing?
I'm betting 1 on P.
I see that. WHY!
SAP! Most of the 2s have gone to 3.
Shit, you are right! (I change my bet to P)
P won!
See that? NOR would not have picked that up but SAP DID. THAT is the advantage of using the more complex SAP way. And some would argue that it isn't even more complex. Especially if you already know SAP.
I realize I'm getting into really fine points here. BUT, sometimes it is the fine points that put us over the top.
So that is to say if we combine O/R count and SAP count and then choose a table which is biased, we will have a good chance of winning?
I feel that SAP helps to determine the LC and so we will know to go mode 2 or mode 3? But how often do we need to check SAP? Every 10 hands? Also for O/R count do we need to monitor the change in it as well so that we will always be prepared to change our system if necessary?
For e.g. if a shoe goes choppy but mid way changed drastically with a long streak of 13, how do we know SAP will help since there are no indications before the streak. This is only an example shoe i quote but do we play S40 in first 2 columns? then the 13 streak comes will S40 still work or should we change to F? This kind of shoe i have seen many times in Singapore casino.
E.g. B 31211411321
p 31211123311
P [13] 21241321
I am still not sure about the latest NOR modes. Are these correct? Can you enlighten me on the various 3?
1. S40 - lose 3 bets or 4 bets before changing side?
2. F2, 3 - when to lose 2 and when to lose 3 before changing side?
3. OTB4L - still a little confused on this. Also how many times to lose before changing side?
OTB4L means bet on the side opposite the win before last win right?
so if it is BB we bet P,
BP we bet P
PP we bet B
PB we bet B
Correct?
Also how many hands is appropriate before we join the table and play? Will 15 to 20 hands be better than a 40 to 60 hands? Normally a shoe ends around 74 hands from what i noticed in Singapore casino (8 decks) The long streaks normally comes in mid shoe and if i wanna play it safe, would it be better to join early or catch the ending phrase?
Sorry but i think that's a lot of questions one shot. Please dun mind me. =P
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Paul had good answers as usual. Another reason to fill in your whole score card is to help start your own collection of complete score cards. By the same token, we are usually out of the shoe before it ends. We seldom play the entire shoe. But you may want to finish your card to build your collection.
BTW, that reminds me: We have one hard rule here at BTC: NEVER leave your card in a casino. Take it with you.
While we have a tester of 500 complete games on score cards. I seldom recommend it because they are too old. But they do demonstrate the history of Baccarat or better, the evolution. Shoes used to be more biased than they are today. Ha, but see, we have to play what IS and not get confused by what WAS. We can't play nostalgicly and hope to get anywhere. We MUST play what IS because that is where the money IS.
Another point about your developing shoe collection is that it is best to have a collection that reflects the shoes at the casinos you frequent. All casinos have their own oddities.
Casinos are always favoring what is most profitable at THEIR particular casino.
For instance: casinos that cater to new and beginner players (vacation type casinos) will tend to favor streak because new players invariably bet chop.
Inversely, casinos that cater to experienced players and pros will present chop because, think about it, the casino can never get hurt by a choppy shoe. They are safe, but throw a 20 in a row at experienced players and the casino is going to get cleaned out.
Casinos are much, much smarter than the average player realizes. Basically what we do, what BTC does, what NOR does, is to use the casinos own intelligence against them - to use their own orchestration against them. THAT is the whole concept of winning Baccarat play. It happens to also be the whole concept of winning BJ play, incidently.
The average player is really pretty dim witted. He THINKS it is a random game. He even argues that it is a random game. It doesn't occur to him that casinos could not possibly make 26% profits in a perfectly random 50/50 game. It doesn't occur to them that if the average player loses that much, it mathematically CAN'T be random.
Think about your own experience. You have played a lot of shoes. Think about the state of affairs just after the last hand of the shoe is dealt but before commission is collected. Usually, at that point, most of the players are down aren't they. Often, ALL the players at the table. Ha, they WISH they were only out commission.
But, as the Horseshoe Las Vegas clearly demonstated: casinos can eliminate commission ALTOGETHER and the players STILL lose at an alarming rate. Yeah sure, there are winners. BUT for every winner there are like 10 losers.
Take BF: They have no concept of actually how hard it is to produce truly random cards. They argue (vehemently I might add) that all cards are perfectly random. What would this mean? It would mean that overall, the players would win half the hands and lose half the hands. Except for commission players could neither win nor lose and casinos would be reduced from 26% profits down to commission. Casinos can't survive on commission alone.
Think about your own experience. Players don't win half the hands do they. They WISH they did!
BF (and many others, I don't mean to pick on just BF) argues that the cards are perfectly random. Therefore they are arguing that there is no way to win. That is what RANDOM freaking MEANS. Anyone would be utterly STUPID to play a game they can't possibly win, wouldn't they. THEREFORE, they are arguing that they are utterly stupid, aren't they. (Two things equal to the same thing are equal to each other - a basic law of Physics) THEREFORE BF is arguing that they are utterly stupid. Ha, I finally agree with them on something!
One last point on this. While we are very few, some of us are VERY consistent winners. Yes, mostly at BTC but there are also others. I'm sure you have met some by now. Think about this: if the cards were, in fact, always perfectly random, consistent winners would be mathematically impossible. I rest my case!
As John Malayia, from Singapore incidently, puts it: E. Clifton Davis, the father of modern Baccarat. Ha, I agree except that I think it should be "grandfather".
Yes Sir! =) I also feel that i should start collecting my own score cards so that i can also practice on shoes with the 3 new systems i learned. I can just go around the casino and copy them from the toteboards lol.
For the past 2 months i guess i've played at least 30 shoes but it's more of hit and run. I recall now on my best "lucky" stint that i'd won 6 hands straight with flat betting at 1 unit and i was actually playing S40 without any knowledge of it and just guessing that the next result will be opposite! After i won i bet the opposite! I was lucky on that shoe as it went PBPBPBP lol. If i had learned NOR then i would have stayed on with confidence!
I also recalled that sometimes i lost 2 bets in a row on betting the same side and i persisted to bet the 3rd hand and i won my chips back! All these steps i can see in S40 system now that i understand it. Now that i understand NOR, i can understand why i had won my money and why i have lost! I wish i have learned NOR sooner!
I know now that when i am ready to step into the casino again, i will not be betting on luck and guessing blindly. I will be playing with a system that works and that gives me the confidence i need! Gambling with fear is the worse thing you can experience in a casino (unless you love the thrill and excitement it brings lol)
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We usually go with the lower one (2 in this case) but my play
would depend on what the other numbers are.
Thank you so much! Now I'm clear that I am understanding the correct stuff.
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I'll try to answer your questions
you don't have to copy the hands onto your scorecard - most players don't.
On the other hand, I do! It takes very little time. I also do a SAP count
and bring it up to date. I find it helps me to know how the shoe is playing.
Great players like Ellis can just look at the board and know what is going on,
but I find it is better to write it down. Like I said, it takes only about a minute.
I do not use the O/R count - I use SAP instead. But the same is true for the O/R
as for writing down all the plays - it is a personal choice. The O/R count can
vary in different parts of the shoe, so you might just want to look at the last 20 plays.
You are correct about the SAP count. Remember 1's count for 1, 2's for 2 and 3's and
4+'s count for 4. The count for 4+'s could never be 10 as in your example. In your
example 2's would be the LC (8) and 3's would be the MC (16). If I was going to enter
this shoe I would play S40 to take advantage of the high 1's, but when it went to 2 I
would bet the same side, expecting the 2 to go to 3. This is my method of incorporating
SAP into NOR. I expect to be demonstrating that method at the Vegas seminar. Hope
to see you there
Paul
Thank you Paul for this explanation. Now I understand it better. So if there are 2 equal values (e.g. Heading 2 and 3 are the same 16 and 16) which will be the correct LC?
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Hello everyone,
I'm a new member and after reading through the threads i wanna be sure that i'm going in the right direction. Can someone tell me whether i'm right or wrong?
This is what i have gathered from reading the information available.
1. First i learn how to do an O/R count from the toteboard - Is it necessary to count the O/R from play #2 onwards to the current hand? If i enter a shoe mid way say #50 do i need to count from #2 to #50 to decide whether it is in + or - and decide on what system to play?
2. Do i need to copy all hands played on the score sheet if i enter the shoe mid way?
3. What does it mean to say the least entry of heading 1 2 3 4 is the least common (culprit). If e.g. 1 2 3 4 has value of 13 8 16 10 then does it mean 2 is the LC cos it is the least entry value? I'm confused at this part.
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Oh i forgot to mention that the shoes were played in Resort World Sentosa Singapore today.
Just calculated the P.A just for fun:
Shoe 1 :
Net win : +13 units
Total bets : 62 units
P.A. : 20%
Shoe 2 :
Net win : +15 units
Total bets : 69 units
P.A. : 21%
Average P.A. for 2 shoes played : 21%