ChiefAurelius

Can I just ask a question MVS, and forgive me if this is a newby mistake, but in a sequence of 21212121, is there a refinement above OTB4L? I can see quite plainly how you've flogged this shoe, and walked away smiling, but the reason I ask is that I see so many shoes that have that 21212121 sequence. It doesn't seem to be as common as the TTs where OTB4L reigns supreme, but it does seem to be common. Or is the rule to keep a steady ship with OTB4L and use your betting progressions to harness any fluctuations in the wrong directions? Thanks Chief

Thanks MVS. I was making the same error without realising it (posting the 4 at the end of column one instead of limiting to a count of 20, then continuing on the next column with the remainder of 3). Much appreciated. Cheers Chief

Thanks Ellis. Hope everything is ok with your emergency. Cheers Chief

Hi Shereevanest, Here you go...http://www.beatthecasino.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7200 Cheers Chief

Forgive the maths-dummy question, what's the correct calculation for Hit Rate/PA? Thanks Chief

Thanks Ellis! Another element of Bacc play that had completely escaped my attention. You are a genius. I thought I might post my first sojourn at the tables since studying the system... I might preface by saying that while I'd read the manual, started to highlight the NOR+ thread elements, and am halfway through the bootcamp manual, I still felt immensely underdone. One just has to read any of your posts Ellis to realise just how deep this journey goes. The reason I went, in spite of having very limited time, was because it was dawning on me how important the OR Count is, and I didn't feel it was sinking in. So I went in with the objective of solidifying my OR Count proficiency. The previous night I'd done hours of reading and studying, and had even prepared a "prompt" card, to keep in my pocket, with some coded rules that would prompt me should I lose my way. I walked in, sat near the shoe, grabbed a card and rearranged their card so it tracked all of the elements you'd taught us to track - at least to the best of my rookie ability. I'd played before, but as I mentioned, under the tutelage of a 'professional gambler'. He does alright, but through this forum and your work, I realised he can - like many others - only play streak or chop. He simply won't throw down if the shoe wanders into neutral. I've got a sneaky suspicion now that whilst he's very good at streak, a lot of his winnings stem from being one of those rare really 'lucky' people. So I started charting the shoe, measuring the count (yes, I really needed to do it with a live shoe for it to sink in), and lacking a bit of confidence on the betting strategy at the moment, only 'paper traded' or zero bet. When I hit three out of three, I decided now was as good a time as any. I cashed in 9 units (all that was within budget at this time). Here's the shoe: B 2542111212 B 111218411 P 33224224 P 21311111 My betting strategy understanding is still shabby, so I concede that I no doubt messed a lot of that up. Also, when the shoe produced 4 B after 8 P I got a bit lost. Fortunately, recalibrated and rode out the tail end of the shoe until I remembered the win/loss stops. Ended up with a ratio of win 14 against a loss of 11. With my shabby deployment of the betting strategy/cash management, I ended up 5 units in front, before I backed out because of the stop loss points. What was quite interesting was that after dinner I quickly returned to that table before I had to leave. I quickly scribbled down the tote board before I had to go (which was before the shoe was finished). Here it is: P 311123122222 P 112344121 B 11212221 (incomplete thereafter). Interesting huh? What a completely different shoe. This casino works on preshuffled decks. The best thing was not the tidy profit, but how much more clear the concepts became once - having put in hours of study - the rubber hit the road. I'm intending to spend the weekend, trying to review the accuracy or otherwise of my decisions. The outcome was achieved in that I realised how CRITICAL the OR Count is, and even better, got paid for learning. As an aside, I noticed two interesting things other than the core learning experience: 1. the Tote board had an extra hand to compared to the number I had recorded. I don't know the significance (if any) of this, but I rechecked 6 times and could not tally my hand count (P & B not counting Ties) with their hand count. 2. there was another player who was seated at the table. I was a bit preoccupied with what felt like a million things going on at the one time - OR Count, hand count, correct recording of the hand, bet recording, bet strategy, and finally stop points - but I looked up at him, and he would put down his bet and his hand wouldn't stop shaking. He was betting 6-10 units at a time, and seemed to be winning more than he was losing, but he was obviously physically - and adversely - affected by every hand. The reason I mention is that it struck me as to the contrast. I was so preoccupied tracking my - now not so elusive - prey, that the result of the hand was less a consequence than a confirmation of the next step. He was a mess. What a difference it makes learning from an expert. Anyway, thanks is all I have left to say. Cheers Chief

Thanks Ellis. That's very helpful. Just to clarify, Gold Strike and Tunica MS are preshuffled ('prep'ed) shoes? Generally designed to fall into OTB4L (thus more unwinnable for the average punter)? Also, I was reading on the thread titled "Wendel's Shoe" you mentioned 'play 2'; does this mean column 2? Sorry for the million questions, I'm just trying to join all the dots. Cheers Chief

Thanks Ellis. So every bet that you don't make is a zero unit bet? And by extension there's no need to record - just keep the OR count?

Sorry guys, another newby question. What is a "0 unit bet"? Is that like dummy trading? Cheers Chief

Thank you immensely for that response. I guess it is ungainly at this stage, but your answer opened many doors in my mind. The couple of hands that I've run the count on to practice - while it took time - made it incredibly obvious which mode the shoe was in. I was a bit stunned... after a year or so of reading tote boards. I can really see now how it fits, particularly when you spoke of specific modes liking certain events and hating others. I might also pencil in to scan the boards for reference to the preshuffled cards. That sentence about the choice of preshuffled cards seems like a goldmine on its own. I'm very grateful for the insight. Chief.

Hey guys, Forgive a beginner question...I'm still plowing through the manual, trying to thoroughly understand the concepts. Did you find it hard getting your head around the OR Count at first? I suppose like all beginners, I've absorbed some concepts really quickly and others are taking longer to sink in. Also, do you record the OR count on your scorecard? If so, where? (eg at the end of 20?) Thanks all. Hope you're all cleaning up. Cheers Chief

Thanks to you both! That's a major help as a guidepost through the immense amount of material I've already gotten lost in. I'm nearly finished the manual and will follow your tips in hopes that it starts to take shape. I really appreciate the assistance. Hope you're both having outstanding weeks! Cheers Chief

Sydney based, although I shuttle around a bit. I'm just plowing through the manual at the moment, but I'm sure to have a million and a half questions. A very dear friend has been playing bacc for thirty years and brought me in on his system. After about a year, I could see holes in it, so I started looking for extra info and ...voila, here I am. Is there a better way to go through the info on the boards? I'd be keen to catch up one weekend once I've digested all the material (I'm a bit of an information fiend, and like to understand an area as thoroughly as possible first). Anyway great to meet you Oz. Thanks for the welcome. Chief

Hi all, Another new member currently located in the land of Oz. It's encouraging to see that there's an Australian thread here. Looking forward to learning from the masters. Best luck and Best wishes, ChiefAurelius