BigVic
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Posts posted by BigVic
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Guys, no matter what direction this forum goes into now, please think about this. Ellis claims that what used to work to beat the casino baccarat game no longer works because of pre-shuffled shoes. So even how Ellis USED TO PLAY back in the day won't win anymore according to his argument. He even claims that NOR is obsolete now. His latest system or method is to learn how to win +5 units per shoe consistently and then progress your betting to reach a million dollars of profit within weeks (the time target does seems to be changing so who knows what it is now).
Wouldn't it make sense then for someone, preferably Ellis or Keith (the ones who are SELLING this idea) to test it out first to find out if what they say is even possible?
Would you pay for advice on how to become a millionaire in the CURRENT CONDITIONS of the stock market from somebody who just has a theory about how to do it? Or from someone who actually did it. Ellis claims he made gobs of money years ago playing baccarat, but according to him the game has completely changing sense then. It's quite comical really. If Ellis or Keith did the +5 unit a shoe million dollar program for real and were successful at it, then they could charge almost anything they wanted for access to the forum...but as it is, $10 a month was the last going rate I heard...how sad. But $10 a month is what you can expect for something that promises grandiose rewards with zero proof of accomplishment.
And if you think me as crass or ungrateful towards the BTC, just remember it wasn't that long ago the BTC was trying to sell a unproven "superbet" system for 5g's that very quickly unraveled into what we have left of the 4D today. Hell it isn't even being sold anymore, now that's a first ever sense I've been here.
Just be careful. That's all I'm saying.
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The answer to all Keith's and Ellis's problems are staring them right in the face! I think the two founders of "Beat The Casino" who want to sell a product called "Million Dollar Webinar" should lead by example and individually go out, spend the next 30 days and each make 1 million dollars playing baccarat exactly the way they teach it in the webinar.
That would serve two purposes.
First: Prove beyond a doubt that what they are selling works for the baccarat game currently being dealt.
Second: NO MORE MONEY WORRIES FOR THE FORUM!
Simple really.
Excuses to follow.....
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I'm just wondering what comes after the million dollar baccarat, 1 billion? Now that I'd pay to see.
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I have asked this question before and did not receive an answer.
Ellis, Keith, Steve Spataro and other instructors and top NOR players -
"What percent of hands do you actually win?"
This happens to be a very crucial piece of information, regardless,
whether one flat bets or uses a progression.
Please, do NOT keep me in the dark on this.
Thank you in advance.
Sakana
Honestly I've never have kept track of my percentage of winning hands per shoe/session/etc. However I will say this. If you aren't winning close to 50% of your hands in a small sample say per shoe or at least per session than you're not seeing the game good enough to be successful at it. You can win with less but it makes it "interesting" when you're only winning 1 out of 3 hands or worse.
All of this is just opinion of course.
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Are you visiting the casino on the same days or the same times of day every time you visit? Because the shoes you are posting are quite consistent with one another. Until that changes I'd keep playing with what has been working with little to no fear. But the shoes will change eventually so be watchful.
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You just refuse to accept my gift. You win,already! Lets move
on and teach some good lessons.
A real "pro" knows when to fold em.
Talk about lawyers. How about a whole bunch of them in a class action?
Will you send jacoby or myer? (i didnt see their screennames being
"used" here)
Dont "press" it with this crap.
And you couldn't afford the public defender.
When we met in AC i watched you among others play. It was a high stakes seminar but you
played greens. (yeah i know it was a saturday night-- right) You lost both shoes you
played.
You talk about comps in your manuals. in your posts. Now you are against them.
You were banned from AC yet you used a players card that night.
Maybe you need a vacation down to South Beach?
Need I go on?
You see , casino money can fund a million memberships for me.
Now folks, there is a 50/50 chance that this we be my last post
in this regard, as I am only here to help.
I will bet a 3-4-5 on the run though.
Hows that for a "twist"?
(lets move on)
kramden/santa fe
And this is contributing to the forum? Please take your "gift" someplace else.
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Just remember i did you a favor.
I always knew who you , Oz , and etc are.
I gave you an "out" and you should thank me. (you know my anger
display was what you anticipated)(a little gift for you)
This went from me trying to help your members to a chess game.
The shame is that the only ones who lose are the members.
Game over. You are welcome.
Boy are we completely full of ourselves.
I apologize to the whole forum....hell I apologize to all of humanity. Kramden/Jesus was about to bless us all with a baccarat miracle and now he won't. We are all doomed.
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Wow - massive synchronicity in my bacc experience this week!
In light of having fun with the riddling, I can attest to the table biases going beyond NOR. Many of my local sessions are like a game of 3 card monte. Most of the players fall prey to the trickery, but an astute one won't fall for the casino's sleight of hand.
I wonder how stacked, non shuffled cards would play out?
Care to provide an example of this? What does, "table biases going beyond NOR" even mean? That sounds like a big contradiction.
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Anybody that professes to being a newbie trying to figure things out while at the same time claiming that they can win every shoe with their new shiny never-before-seen-uber-secret-discovery deserves some scrutiny and ridicule. Unless of course they can back that up with some sort of solid proof. Otherwise they're just another johnny come lately to this board that long time members here have seen come and go for years now.
BTW, I was always the nerd in class that got picked on and did others homework for them so I wouldn't get picked on. Good to know that I'm now a "punk". That feels really "cool". Thank you.
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Chief,
OK, this is the thing I'm just not seeing.
Why must the highest count move upwards?
MVS (slightly behind the rest of the class)
Because Ellis said it would. Shoes are less random when Ellis plays them.
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OK guys,
You walk into a casino with one table.
You see this on the toteboard:
b p b p b p
b p 0 p b p
b
or we can transcribe it as:
B321222
(obviously the zero is a tie--posting will not allow for a space for a single
So the question is, would you sit down and bet and what would the bets be?
Please answer me with your reasoning.
I wish to have as many answers as possible from everyone please, as I am still figuring something out. Consider me as a "newbie".
So you're a newbie, trying to figure something out but at the same time never lose a single shoe. Uh huh. I'll tell you what you are, one weird duck.
Do you just like the attention from your posts or are you just full of BS and are desperate because your losing streak didn't end with bet phoenix and maybe followed you into the real brick casinos?
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I'm only posting my results with the 4D because Ellis asked me to (they were originally sent to him privately). Only a few people seem interested in working out the 4D rules and maybe that's because everyone else is waiting for the next big method to be unveiled. Adding to that, it seems more of the "I have it all figured out but I'm not sharing" attitude has been showing it's face lately. While I'm sure these members have their reasons (annoying questions, possible casino countermeasures, etc), it's incredibly discouraging to everyone else who has paid $600 to be part of a community.
That being said, I posted what I've been working on, not to "show off", but to get some help so we can eventually settle on a set of rules that consistently produces. Unfortunately, out of all of our members, only one has stepped up to help me and that says a lot. So I'm going to keep chugging away behind the scenes because I know we're close, but I'm bowing out of future discussions. If you guys want to do some testing, have at it (most of what I'm doing has been posted in this thread). I'd be curious to hear your results.
Results:
If we count a +2 or higher as a win and a -6 as a loss, then I only had 2 losses out of 32 shoes. Most of these shoes I stopped around 4 or 5 but I'm sure I could have scored higher if I kept going.
32 shoes
30 finished above 0
2 finished below 0 (both at -6)
Total average is 5.69 units (take this with a grain of salt because of the +17 and +14 and also because I stopped most shoes around +4 when I most likely would have scored much higher)
1. +3
2. +14
3. +5
4. +4
5. -6
6. +2
7. +8
8. -6
9. +3
10. +4
11. +6
12. +6
13. +9
14. +7
15. +11
16. +7
17. +9
18. +5
19. +6
20. +4
21. +12
22. +4
23. +7
24. +8
25. +8
26. +4
27. +4
28. +17
29. +6
30. +4
31. +2
32. +5
Update:
Going by my original parameters of considering a +4 or more a win and a -6 a loss, my updated rules have gotten me 35 wins out of the last 42 shoes I've played (all different shoe types) playing the rules mechanically while disregarding table selection.
It's not the member's responsibility to develop a winning system. Paying members PAID their money upfront with the understanding that what they were getting for their money was a complete proven winning system. And to be fair NOR is that winning system that most of us payed $600 for.
What you're going on about is the $5000 super bet system. I guess $5000 doesn't go as far as it used to. My advice to anybody is to master NOR. Too many here fall to the trap of being " a jack of all trades, master of none."
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Hi MVS how are you...i'm all for cleaning up the site if you would like me to help tell me how...we dont use RD1 and Adot and alot of other systems they should be erased from the forum only the relative stuff...NOR NOR+ 4D 2-2-1 progression NBJ and the Roulette section needs to be updated....as for rewriting the manual its in PDF form its 2-3 diagrams and a better explanation i can help with that as well make a sticky that says updated manual and 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 download the latest one and it avoids all the same questions being asked and Ellis getting a massive headache ....we all should be posting shoes myself included i have a 60 Vegas shoes from Norm A god rest his soul if you want it PM me i'll email it to you unless MVS can tell me where the paperclip is to download them to a post Lets clean up this site and get it more organized get some stickys up and start posting some shoes guys....by the way MVS i'll help anyway i can
Says you. Quite presumptuous of you to think that.
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Hey Vic,
Have you been playing this way(using 4D) and how long?
And what progression have you been using?
I know Ellis mentioned something similar earlier on in the program about this but I think it was if the count went up 2 bet it would go back towards zero...
Anyway I have just ran this through a few shoes and it went really well the beauty of it was that it only ran in to trouble on straight runs(iars) playing by betting on the highest count reversing,NOW if there is a run on the opposite side you win every bet until the run ends if you stay on that run!!!As it automatically reverses the count back to zero! Its just a matter of what your progression is or pausing after so many losses on the first run.
If the run stays strong side we also have the option of play F system,I know its only a few shoes but this just might be the answer to making the runs are friends and is definitely worth looking into.
Bacc A I thought that until i played it,as Vic said observe the current shoe trend not play it mechanically. Ellis/Glenn ?
Regards Lou.
I'm sorry Lou, I don't play the 4D. But if I did I would play the way I just showed and then maybe play to 2 or 3 losses in a row and then stop and wait for a win or two before continuing. I think getting to know your casino and their tables is much more important than being dogmatic about playing a system.
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look for the highest entry across the columns, starting from left to right, regardless of + or -. Look at the direction the column was going in and bet that it reverses.
I caution you though on trying to find a magic set of rules to bet. Mechanical bet selections always lose. Better to be loose and free with your observations and bet the current shoe trends as they develop.
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This ought to rattle your brain somewhat. One rule was used for bet selection for all bets.
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If your casino still permits betting on banker and player at the same time, you could bet say an offset of $10 or $15 on the two bets. That way you turn a $25 table into a $10 or $15 table. Of course you'll pay a commission penalty and you would need to practice so that you don't make betting mistakes when betting that way.
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If you are in a shoe THAT high in 1's why would you even mess with 3's or more?
Bet 1's until you lose twice in a row...wait for a confirmed 1 in a row and then continue with your betting the 1's.
Remember this is a shoe high or very high in 1's.
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I think to ask whether one is ready means one still has lots of grounds to cover ...dun trust online casino I wish there're more trip reports by newbies
On second thought I think you're ready. Go get'em tiger.
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Why not practice at a live baccarat internet casino? Doesn't cost anything.
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Whether we like it or not, despite the system or method we use, it is all just a guess.
The question is, how good are your guesses?
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Hi,
Playing F usually doesn't work for me, not saying it doesn't work, but I always am too late and shoe changes or something goes wrong.
The shoe I was giving you was just an example I just made up as I typed the last post, if I played F, this would take you 5 bets from the get go if you were playing all P at the beginning, lose 3 bets, then go OTR lose, then you are at a 5 bet win, then lose the net 2 etc...
Just hasn't really worked for me out of all the times I played it. s40m1 was the savior for me after you introduced it few months ago... But the OR repeat recently has worked well for me, but I just wanted to ask you how you get away with those 1's once they come out in sets.
Let me give another shoe that is more like what I mean.
P531641
B4511135
P41134 (here if you went otr after 3 losing bets, you would have lost)
So lets just say you are on the repeat train and then you get the 1s, would you do what I did and go otr after 3 losses. The sporadic 1's force you to do this.
Let me know your thoughts.
Your shoe scores +24 with a highest bet of 3 playing TB4L.
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Well no Vic. They are similar but the difference is important.
orbes:
Just as S40M3 goes OTR after 3 losing bets
and S40m2 goes OTR after 2 losing bets
S40M1 goes OTR after 1 losing bet
This changes S40 from a chop system to a streak system particularly useful in streak with runs on both sides. F is still better in Strong Side but S40m1 is best in streak with no strong side (very common).
TB4L Goes on all runs straight and ZZ at the 3rd circle.
The advantage of S40M1 is while it is on St runs from the 3rd circle, it is on ZZ runs right from the first circle.
This advantage can be huge in streaky shoes with ZZ runs which is so often the case.
Both TB4L and S40M1 lose to 2s, while F3 beats 2s.
So you only want to choose S40M1 over F3 in streaky shoes low in 2s as is so often the case with streaky shoes.
Both S40M1 and TB4L lose the bet directly below a 2. Your best defense in this case is to start your prog over at 1 and cut your losses.
TB4L is perhaps the oldest betting system in the world - some 400 years old.
Many players play only TB4L because it likes long runs but, as they constantly prove, it loses big time in today's Bac game because casinos have figured out how to cut way down on long runs. We used to see 15 and 20 play runs on a daily basis. Today maybe once a year if you're lucky.
Well what I prefer to do is to stay on runs until they end. What you're describing is to bet the run for 1 bet then bet opposites, and if that bet loses then bet repeats for 1 bet and then back to opposites again. That would drive me nuts constantly going on and off runs that way.
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S40 M1 is just another way of saying bet TBL (Time before Last) or avant-dernier if you prefer. No big mystery.Hi Ellis,Where can I read up on S40 M1?
Thanks!
Million Dollar Webinar!
in BeatTheCasino.com Q and A Baccarat and Blackjack
Posted
Ellis if you had taken the time to read my post you would of seen that I agree with you. I think that your +5 is wonderful, why then won't you put your money where your mouth is and just play it? Surely the system creator is willing and ready to play his own system? If you did then your financial shortfall would be over and the pressure off to constantly trying new ways to make money from this forum. Surely playing +5 you can more money with that then you ever could with this forum. What am I missing here?