BigVic
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Posts posted by BigVic
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And also, if he is playing SAP he has only been playing if for 2 months at the most because that is when PJ taught it. But core announced this Genting thing months ago, long before he ever heard of SAP. We haven't taught it in years. Back when he announced it he said he was flat betting NOR, then came the Fibonaci thing. Now to flat betting SAP, all in a matter of months. If you are going to buy, you better hurry before it all changes again. Maverick all over again. Then he had Ultimate Maverick. Now Ultimate whatever. Desjavous all over again. Just don't say I didn't warn you.
I really wish I could post questions here without the backlash. I'm curious Ellis when did I ever express an interest in buying anything from CORE?
Can you please stop with the whole angry old man thing and please just calm down? All I wanted to do was to find out what casinos were like in the Asia subcontinent. Chances are I'll never travel that far to find out myself, so while I have access to somebody from across the Pacific I thought I'd pick his brain a little.
Thank you Core for answering my questions. Best of luck to you.
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Guys,
Wanna see the real battle??? Me versus ellis. Student vs teacher. Unexperience newbie vs 30 years top guy. Core ultimate vs nor.
Come on ellis, come here, i will provide you the room.
What do u say?? All btc members may see our duel. I think PJ will love to see our duel.
Core, you don't play NOR? I see that you did buy NOR, correct? If not NOR how do you play now? Another BTC system? What are the shoes like where you play?
I sincerely don't want to get in middle here, but Ellis you know there are ways to win 25 units in a shoe flat betting without having to win "50 hands more than you lost". That was unfair and misleading.
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Hi Vic, I'm guessing that your point is that ten years ago or whatever we sold lifetime memberships for $1000. I'm guessing that we would still hold true to that. But we dropped the $1000 lifetime memberships a long time ago and we sell forum memberships now for less money. Like, for instance, the Universal forum. Keith was good enough to upgrade everyone in the Universal forum to the NOR forum but we simply can't continue to do that due to vastly increased competition.
Back then we had virtually no real competition for new memberships and we were getting several per day. I wrote the first ever Baccarat book (They sold at $3000 per copy) and Keith started the first ever Baccarat forum. Since we had no competition it was easy to only make money on new memberships.
But today we are competing with hundreds of new forums for the same members and getting new members is like pulling teeth. Recognize that prospective members have no idea of which forum to join. So all we get is a very small share.
Like the guy the other day who said he had gone with 200 different purchases. Well we can't keep the forum afloat that way. And not many people can afford multiple purchases.
I never dreamed when I started all this that every Tom Dick and Harry on the internet would go into competition with me regardless of the proven fact that they have no idea of what they are talking about. But it renders Keith and me working for less than half of minimum wage.
We tried other things first like commission sales but very few members are the least bit interested in that in spite of the fact that we have paid out a lot of commission. People don't come here to work.
So unless somebody sees some other way of doing it I don't see where we have any other choice but to go back to Manual sales which is the way we started out. At least now we can keep the prices a lot lower.
With what I know now it was a big mistake to get away from manual sales but who could foresee all this fly by night competition. At least we are only looking at about a tenth of what we used to charge.
Does anyone have a better idea? I'll listen to anything.
It is still very low cost for what everybody gets and still the best Baccarat forum in existance.
The only alternative I see is to start a new forum and go back to our old pricing which has drasticaklly inflated at this point. We are trying to avoid all that.
Oh boy. Here we go.
I posted that old forum entry to point out what you got with your lifetime membership. But now you are reclassifying the terms and splitting hairs calling lifetime memberships, "forum memberships". Haha, Fine. Guess what, that is taking advantage of your students. Something you claimed BTC was above and would never do.
ways to market your forum for you? I got one. WORD OF MOUTH. Its a very powerful marketing technique.
These past 2-3 weeks around here have been like an old twilight zone episode. Unbelievable.
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Hello Ellis: my name is Zdenek. I would like to ask you several questions :
1. What will I get for paying the 1000$ for your system TWISTER and also, what is the antiTwister ???
2. You know, $1000 is a lot of money, but … how long would it take for me, to get the 1000$ back by winning at BACCARAT ???
3. Can I use it on ONLINE CASINOS (Las vegas casino - PlayTech)
4. Is there any money back refund / guarantee ???
Sorry, if the questions are too common for you, or maybe stupid … and, excuse my poor English.
Zdenek
P.S. : Can you explain to me the difference between your system and all the others I see on the internet.
Hi Zdenek, Ellis here: Your questions are excellent and very representative of what others want to know. There’s no such thing as a stupid question. I have numbered my replies the same as your questions above.
1.0: What do I get?
1.1: You get life time membership in our group and our school.
This means, for one thing, that you get all updates, improvements, and new systems free for life.
1.2: Our job is to teach you step by step to become a professional player. You will be rubbing elbows with other beginners as well as with experienced winners, and professionals, learning from their trip reports and their casino strategies. Recognize that there are many aspects to becoming a professional player. You must learn the ways of the casino. You must understand the weapons the casino deploys against you and how to turn those same weapons against them. You must learn how to get information about your game before you play it: How to use the tote board; how to get reliable information from the other players; how to read their scorecards and get critical information from them; how to glean information from the card preps and shuffles; how to time shuffle machines to know what kind of shoe you are about to play; how to anticipate what casino tactics to expect from the way the others are playing. You are about to enter the world of the professional player as well as the world of the casino. Recognize that a player with no casino savvy armed only with a single system, no matter how good that system is, has no chance whatever. The casino will devour him. Recognize that its not about beating testers, its not about beating computers, its about taking well guarded money from CASINOS. That’s a whole different ball game. Testers and computers are not out to beat you. CASINOS ARE! And WILL! It’s their JOB and they are very good at their job. My job is to stop them and I’m very good at my job. Just as the casino relies on a highly experienced, highly paid casino Manager to beat you, you need an equally experienced professional mentor to beat them. Just as a professional football team would never dream of going to a playoff game with only one play, no matter how good that play is, and without thoroughly studying their opponent’s tactics, neither should you enter a casino with those same fatal handicaps. You’re not there to play games, you’re there to win!
1.3: 99% of all players play either streak or chop. They bet repeats or opposites. But 99% of all players lose. Casinos don’t present only two game types. They present eight game types. Therefore, we teach you eight systems. Twister is not a single system. There is NO single system that can beat today’s Baccarat game. Twister is a professional, real world approach to the game. You must be equipped to deal with whatever the casinos dish out and you need to know what kind of shoe to expect. We teach you how to know which system is the most effective for the shoe type you are playing right now. That is what winning professional play is all about.
1.4: Casinos MUST present biased games to remain viable. Casinos can’t survive on the 1.25% profits that commission generates. They need and get 16%. Casinos, with help from the card prep, the shuffle and the shuffle machine, have total control over the game type presented. They present the game type favorable to THEM, not the players. We teach you how to anticipate and identify the bias at hand and how to play WITH that bias instead of AGAINST it like the amateurs do.
1.5: Dealers cheat! They are like CIA agents. If they get caught the casino disavows them. But they almost never get caught. If you don’t know exactly how they cheat, its only a question of time. You WILL get cheated. We teach you how to detect and how to avoid getting cheated. We’re on to them!
1.6: We teach you how to net bet! We have known for 15 years that net betting is far and away the best betting method for Bac.
Progressive betting is simply too risky. Flat betting is silly. Look, Baccarat is a 50 - 50 game. Every play is 50 - 50. There are no patterns. There is no way to predict the outcome of any play. It’s purely 50 - 50. Half the time you will win more than half the hands and half the time you won’t. No professional would ever flat bet in a 50 - 50 game. This would be totally naïve. When you flat bet, the ONLY way you can win is to win more than half the hands; Considerably more when you figure in commission. Why would you limit yourself to winning only half the time? The game is hard enough without handicapping yourself. The object of the game isn’t to win the most hands. The object is to win the most MONEY. That is exactly why you net bet! Net betting will ALWAYS win when you win more than half the hands. But it often wins the most when you win less than half the hands. Try that flat betting. Net betting is a process of greatly reducing your avg. bet size (and your commission) while increasing your avg. units won and your player advantage. Which reminds me, you don’t want to be fooling around with single digit player advantages. You need a double digit player advantage. Net betting is the way to go. Always was and always will be. True pros know that!
1.7: You get download instructions for your manual and color coded sample games and you get the password for our private forum where we hold our classes and where you can converse freely with me and the other players. This is where you learn how to become a professional player, where you get your playing tips, your updates, advice on casinos you plan to play and all the personal help you need. The players here speak many languages.
2.0 How long does it take to learn?
2.1: This depends somewhat on your experience level and your knowledge of the rules of the game. We strongly recommend that you don’t play until you know the rules of Baccarat and the first two systems thoroughly. We recommend that you practice at home until you can play fluidly without error.
2.2: Nevertheless, some more experienced players have gone to the casino the same day they downloaded their manual. Most did well and some well enough to pay for their manual the same day they got it. Still, I would feel a lot better if you gave it more study first.
2.3: The first two systems are the Twister and the AntiTwister. They are the hardest of the 8 to learn mostly because they are also your first experience with net betting. The other 6 are easy.
The first two are what I call amateur systems. They do not involve any prior knowledge of the shoe type. That’s where I draw the line between amateurs and pros. Pros always bet with an edge. Pros will have researched the shoe type before they play and will select the appropriate system accordingly. They will often, therefore, play much higher return systems. But when you first start, you won’t know how to do that research. It takes time to learn. But meanwhile that is exactly what the Twister / Anti twister is designed for. The Twister has a chop mode to handle chop and a streak mode to handle streak. Most of my competitors stop right there. That’s it, that’s all you get. But Twister doesn’t stop there. If it did it would be too easy for the casino to beat. All they need do is shuffle for a neutral shoe. About the time you go to chop the shoe goes to streak and when you go to streak, the shoe goes to chop. It’s like having your shoes on the wrong feet. When this happens, The Twister will automatically kick you into the AntiTwister mode, usually within the first 15 plays. AntiTwister works like a third mode. It likes neutral. It likes what the Twister does not like. It likes the very shoe type the casino is most likely to deploy against Twister.
See, Twister, with its three modes, is a cleverly designed entrapment for the casino. It gets them coming and it gets them going. But if they try to escape out the side, it puts AntiTwister to work and gets them there too. It’s very much like learning golf. Twister is like a very fine all purpose club you can use to play very well while you are learning the purpose of the other clubs. But, esp. because it employs net betting and esp. because it employs three modes, it is the best all purpose system ever devised.
3.O: Can I use it for on line casinos?
3.1: Zednek, I would love to tell you yes. If I could say yes to that question, my sales would increase ten fold. But I can’t and won’t say yes. On line casinos cheat. Until they clean up there own industry, I would steer well clear of them.
3.2: There are sites on the internet that purport to separate the cheaters from the non cheaters. But I have no way to verify this information. I have had players beat these casinos only to have the casino refuse to pay off. The horror stories are endless.
3.3: Anyone who tells you their system will beat these casinos is jeopardizing your money, not their own. I won’t do this. Enough said.
4.0: How does the financing work?
4.1: We charge you $500. Usually this is done by Paypal because that is usually the simplest way. But other methods can be used: personal check, Western Union, etc. You receive your download instructions, with necessary pass words.
4.2: A month later we bill your account the other $500. Now you are a member for life. But if, in the interim you decide that this isn’t for you or that you want to stick with the amateur systems, you have that opportunity. We have had only one person elect to do that.
5.0: The difference between us and others:
5.1: Zednek, precious few players beat this game consistently. Those that do win by preying on casino biases. That is the only way to win. That is what we teach. There is no single system that even beats random numbers, let alone the multitude of casino biases. Yet that is what they sell. We don’t and won’t. We won’t take advantage of our own students. Enough said.
Sections 1.0 1.1 and 5.0 5.1 are particularly enlightening.
Your "idea" to charge existing members for your newest latest and greatest take on Net Betting is offensive and a direct violation of what I thought I piad for with my LIFETIME MEMBERSHIP. This is very insulting and distressing.
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Getting a little hostile now aren't we? If you aren't using the MM in Frankenstein baccarat then you aren't playing Frankenstein baccarat.
How come people always get angry when you tell them that using a matingale MM won't work? Why so defensive?
I keep wishing you good luck and you keep getting more angry at me. Weird.
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It does not matter when i have a run-out...... Already way ahead of my initial bankroll, you dont understand his system...........any system, even these on this forum, all will have a run-out at some point in time, the longer you play, the more the house has the advantage, no need to warn me.........
LOL What's so hard to understand? A Martingale? Sorry doesn't work because you'll have to bet that 6th or 7th or even 8th step sooner or later then its goodnight. Like I said good luck with that.
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Bacqueen,
Enjoy your success while you can. With this system the longer you play, or the more shoes you play the higher the chance that you will lose all your little wins and more. With the way I play the longer I play the less of a chance I'll lose my money back.
When it does happen just remember you were warned about it.
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Well its real simple. Start at the minimum bet allowed then keep doubling your bet on a loss.
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Hi. I figured I had some time today and wanted to run at least one of those shoes and it looks like Ellis got the first one so I'll try the second one.
I had to wait a day or so in order to not "remember" what I had written down and it takes a few days for my wife to go along with shouting out the decisions to me after dinner when I ran this one.
Anyway, I started at hand 8 going OTR after the three Players. It lost so I went right back into S40 Mode 2 (S40M2) which is what I'm most comfortable with to start a shoe.
At hand 16 was another OTR single wager, which won and then back to S40M2.
The count was holding right around zero and not really moving much but those two "4's" that had already come up were holding me off of going to OTB4L.
The rest of the shoe has annotation that should be self explanatory of when I went OTR and back off.
Notice that towards the end of the shoe, my wagers do become very conservative. After hitting a target of "6" for the third time at hand 52, I should have exited gracefully and took the win. However, there couldn't be too many more hands so I elected to try a few "single" unit wagers to see if I might get lucky and hit a few more in a row.
Hopefully I can remember how to post up a local graphic here again.
Also, I'm still in a state of "flux" for a design for the working scoresheet although the casino cards seem to work just fine. I love being back to a single pencil to work with!
MVS
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2211[/ATTACH]
Could you please explain your reasons for your OTR bets? At play 22 you lost your OTR bet, so why at play 27 did you bet OTR? Also at play 40 then play 43 the same scenario plays out. I thought per the manual that we are supposed to look at what happened the previous time we go OTR and make our decision as whether to go OTR based on if the last time we went OTR the bet won or lost?
Thank you for post a play by play shoe. It helps a lot.
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Ellis if we choose to never make a OTR bet is that OK too? Can we still be profitable if we are that conservative?
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I posted the two that I have on you tube the link is in the thread.
Regards
Keith
Thank you Keith for the 2 part videos from the Vegas seminar. Was there nothing filmed on OTB4L? Maybe one day there might be? I tell ya for me that's the one I struggle with the most. Ellis's talking about how he plays is just so much more effective a learning tool then reading about it. Those videos are sweet.
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TangNang started his thread on 12/19/2011
helluu forum, im a new guy here, just drop by some of the threads in here and what i have seen is a very rediculous guy trying to show you all 50 steps to achieve winning in baccarat. frankly, if you really believe in that, then good luck. but, for those of you who really wants to beat baccarat. i am the only one who can help because S40, OTB4L, F2-3 and NOR approach are the 3 systems you have to pay 830$ for it. i can teach yuo all for free. because i want to drag you guys out from that joker, KIller methods and follow those steps you will end up suiciding yourself. -
Sounds like rudd1234 has an IQ of 70. Sounds like a non starter to me. However, weeks ago now I reported to Keith about a member here that was going to teach NOR to the BF people. Guess that was stopped before it began.
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Keith you mentioned that you had 3 videos? Does part 3 cover OTB4L? DId Ellis cover that part of NOR in the VEGAS seminar? Thanks for your reply.
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This seems like one step closer to getting rid of the real cards decks altogether. I don't want to play a fake baccarat game.
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Are there anymore parts? I hope you can upload the video that talks about OTB4L. Thank you Keith.
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Im personaly looking forward to the OTB4L video....that's the hard one for me with it modes.
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Tang I just think we were having a hard time understanding what you were trying to say. You are a full member here, you should be able to speak your mind.
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Why would you eliminate f2 there?i started to play at hand 15 after i've elimination the F2-3 and S40 -
yes it's S40 because and at hand 15 3s hasn't come out yet, even though 1s and 2s are weak side but you can count it as S40 and eliminate it. and you already eliminate F system because at play 9 you had a -4.
I don't understand that sorry.
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What is SUO?
Sorry you mean s40?
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try uploading your pic here. Then post the link.
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Good idea Vic! I didn't keep a copy but I bet Dave did. Dave?
As I recall they were all S40. I do remember attempting to switch to OTB4L one shoe but ended up right back with S40.
The reason I mention those shoes is, I think its the switching you do or don't do that is the key to making everything work the way it should, IMO. We need to have the benefit of your many years of experience Ellis...
And maybe asking that of you is asking too much but if there is any wisdom from your many years of playing you can pass on to us, as it relates to when to switch or even get out all together, it would be key to more won shoes and higher ROI's. Again IMO.
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Thank you Ellis.
Could you include the shoes you played during the first NOR seminar trip as sample shoes? Maybe with rough play by plays?
2012 NOR Camp Genting !!!
in BeatTheCasino.com Q and A Baccarat and Blackjack
Posted
I didn't have ANY QUESTIONS for you Ellis. You are so bitter and angry you can't even get the facts straight. I had questions for Core, not you "buddy".
I sure hope you can stop being so hostile and let bygones be bygones.