Sands VII

[Keith Smith]

Here is the 7th shoe from the Sands

[Guest]

This was my only game in the $100 Midi Bac deal your own pit. The 1's are $100. The 1.5s are $150 and the 2s are $200. This shoe just wouldn't settle down to one system and I was always playing the wrong system except at the start. I decided to get out with a small win. I went back to the $25 tables because they were more consistent. I just couldn't get comfortable at this table.

[bac-cracker]

I woulda played this as F. I would have lost a lot of bets on the 3rd bet and at hand 24, it gets tough.

Lets say I didn't switch, how would you play that, you would just take all the losses in f3

24 p1

25 p2

26 p3

27 b1

28 p2

29 p3

What do you do for hand 30... .this is a tough shoe.

This was my only game in the $100 Midi Bac deal your own pit. The 1's are $100. The 1.5s are $150 and the 2s are $200. This shoe just wouldn't settle down to one system and I was always playing the wrong system except at the start. I decided to get out with a small win. I went back to the $25 tables because they were more consistent. I just couldn't get comfortable at this table.

[MVSeahog]

Just taking a quick look at it, I had F2 pegged after the P3 start.

Wound up +22 at the bottom of that page using U1D2M1. High bet was 4, once.

Easy to do (for me) on a $10 table. Not quite so easy on a black table!

MVS

[bac-cracker]

Well the first 2 times we needed 3 bet, F3 worked out. Then the next F3 failed. So going by Ellis comments to me. Start with F2 and also use the mode that occurs the most. This would be mode 3 still.

I still have questions on what I asked before and now have others.

8 p1

9 p2

10 b3

11 p4 or p1

12 p2 - now is this part of a 2nd bet that is lost, so go 3rd bet... or is it different since you have a otr lost, then switch back to SS, is that a bet of its own or a first bet?

Or would you be able to show how you did it to hand 40?

Just taking a quick look at it, I had F2 pegged after the P3 start.

Wound up +22 at the bottom of that page using U1D2M1. High bet was 4, once.

Easy to do (for me) on a $10 table. Not quite so easy on a black table!

MVS

[Guest]

Just taking a quick look at it, I had F2 pegged after the P3 start.

Wound up +22 at the bottom of that page using U1D2M1. High bet was 4, once.

Easy to do (for me) on a $10 table. Not quite so easy on a black table!

MVS

Hmmm, the first 2 on B kills F2 if you follow the switch back rule.

U1D2M1? Are you saying Mode 1 or Mandatory 1?

In spite of the SS start, I saw no reason to abandon the standard NOR+ OTB4LM3 U1D2 starting at play 2, since it likes both 3s and 1's. An easy +20 with 2 4 bets.

[Guest]

Well the first 2 times we needed 3 bet, F3 worked out. Then the next F3 failed. So going by Ellis comments to me. Start with F2 and also use the mode that occurs the most. This would be mode 3 still.

Right, so why did you play M2 at play 10???

[Norm A]

Hmmm, the first 2 on B kills F2 if you follow the switch back rule.

U1D2M1? Are you saying Mode 1 or Mandatory 1?

In spite of the SS start, I saw no reason to abandon the standard NOR+ OTB4LM3 U1D2 starting at play 2, since it likes both 3s and 1's. An easy +20 with 2 4 bets.

Ellis what do you mean by "IF" you follow the switch back rule.

Is there a another set of rules or a different way of playing F2 without the switch back ? that i missed.

Norm

[Guest]

Ellis what do you mean by "IF" you follow the switch back rule.

Is there a another set of rules or a different way of playing F2 without the switch back ? that i missed.

Norm

A great question Norm and yes, there is another way which is probably what MVS did. When I first designed F, we did not have the switch back rule so for F2, the losing pattern would be a 323 - fairly common in streaky shoes where we are likely to be playing F.

But with the switch back rule, the losing pattern becomes 3212 which is quite choppy for a streaky F shoe.

So we looked at 100 F shoes and found that the switch back rule won considerably more often than W/O it so we adopted it as standard.

However, I still say that in a given F shoe that you are playing right now, if the switch back rule is hurting you - drop it.

[bac-cracker]

I was playing this as an F shoe F2, not in OTB which you already did. I just want to learn how to deal with these spots.

So starting in F2, play 10 I bet 3rd bet.

Then, is 11 the 4th bet or would I still make this the ONE bet. Reason I ask because on 12 I bet P2, which would make my F3 work on 3rd bet P.

However after that, the next is a F3 worked at 16, and then the F3 fails at 24, then the rest goes back to F2.

A lot of switches that I would try to avoid had it happened and I was in that mode. I didn't do OTB because I saw the chart you played and it loss so I would have played F because of the SS at the beginning

Right, so why did you play M2 at play 10???

[MVSeahog]

A great question Norm and yes, there is another way which is probably what MVS did. When I first designed F, we did not have the switch back rule so for F2, the losing pattern would be a 323 - fairly common in streaky shoes where we are likely to be playing F.

But with the switch back rule, the losing pattern becomes 3212 which is quite choppy for a streaky F shoe.

So we looked at 100 F shoes and found that the switch back rule won considerably more often than W/O it so we adopted it as standard.

However, I still say that in a given F shoe that you are playing right now, if the switch back rule is hurting you - drop it.

Yep. Sorry, I should have mentioned that.

Old habits are hard to break.

MVS

[Guest]

I was playing this as an F shoe F2, not in OTB which you already did. I just want to learn how to deal with these spots.

So starting in F2, play 10 I bet 3rd bet.

Then, is 11 the 4th bet or would I still make this the ONE bet. Reason I ask because on 12 I bet P2, which would make my F3 work on 3rd bet P.

However after that, the next is a F3 worked at 16, and then the F3 fails at 24, then the rest goes back to F2.

A lot of switches that I would try to avoid had it happened and I was in that mode. I didn't do OTB because I saw the chart you played and it loss so I would have played F because of the SS at the beginning

F2 already lost the game back at play 10. If not play 10 then definitely play 11. But also at play 10, even before that, the overlay principle is already telling you to play OTB4L. OTB4L is at +6 at play 10 while F2 is at -1 at best and that is only if you started at play 2. But how would you know to play F back at play 2???