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I need a little help on how to place my bets after losing 3 times with prog 123.

As you know, when we lost 2 times with S40, the run is already 3 in a row. I always win the 1st circle but lost to 2nd and 3rd circle (so that will be prog 12 already) so if i make 3 the LC, does it mean that 3 circles already define that i should bet my 3rd hand on OTR?

Another problem is when i choose to stay mode 3 (lost 3 times) before going OTR, the run is already 4 circles and i have lost 6 units with 123 prog. Then i go OTR with 4 units and lost since the run stops at 4. I am confused that whether should i stay on the same side or go OTR with the 4 units?

Even when i choose a really bias shoe, i encounter the problem with mode 3. But i can't possibly choose mode 2 as there are no indications in the shoe.

Live shoe played yesterday:

B 121222111222115211

I saw the above and started playing. Does the 5 indicated anything?

Then came the following:

B 112141132312

B 51611

I was in +5 but since i hit the 4 i started to lose and ended up with a -9!!!!???!!! WTH!

Another beautiful shoe i found

P 1111112121111122

I jumped in after seeing the above

Then came the horror

P 13241111413

B 131172131

P 1111232121

I cannot understand why i score a -6 for this shoe??? The problem is i keep losing to the prog 123 on the wrong side and i did not bet the 4units or go OTR as my confidence was affected. When i did win on the ZZ 1's and 2's, i was only getting back my losses.

These 2 shoes really affected me yesterday. However i did win a +14 and +20 in 2 other shoes so overall still a win. However i want to learn how to overcome the 3 losses part and how to bet after prog 123? It seems tricky as the mode changes in the shoe.

Sometimes i win at 123 but sometimes lost and i am not sure how to bet the 4 units and stopped betting. When i start i always go back to 1 unit again and that's why i lose the shoe. What i mean is the mode changes in one single shoe and confused me.

Can anyone please enlighten me?

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Hello witchgal,

Let me play your cards using my version.

Shoe 1. I will start play at hand 13 when at hand 12 shows OR 3. I played with 12345 progression and u1d2m2. At hand 22 i scored 9 points. Now there was 5 in a row. At hand 26, i won the fourth bet and my score was 7. At hand 29 i hit my target +10 and get out.

Shoe 2 is an easy s40 system. I think u jumped too late. Pls remember pattern changes. Be cautious. I will jump at play 5 and stop at play 15 with +10

I dont jump in if the OR count is too high or in other words too late.

Once again this is my version

Hope it helps

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Hello witchgal,

Let me play your cards using my version.

Shoe 1. I will start play at hand 13 when at hand 12 shows OR 3. I played with 12345 progression and u1d2m2. At hand 22 i scored 9 points. Now there was 5 in a row. At hand 26, i won the fourth bet and my score was 7. At hand 29 i hit my target +10 and get out.

Shoe 2 is an easy s40 system. I think u jumped too late. Pls remember pattern changes. Be cautious. I will jump at play 5 and stop at play 15 with +10

I dont jump in if the OR count is too high or in other words too late.

Once again this is my version

Hope it helps

Thank you Core for sharing your version. However I only join the table when I walk around and chance upon potential bias shoes. After calculating OR and SAP then I join. So if you play from the beginning it will be different. If you start the hand same as me how will you play?

For the second shoe maybe you are right I missed the good part and started with the more difficult ones. But I didn't know it will appear like that since OR is so high! I must learn to conquer those 3's and 4's.

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Well iam not always play in the beginning. As long as the or is not too high, it`s okay to jump in.

If your version happened to be a lost shoe, then get up. U can make it up at other tables. U did nothing wrong. From +5 to -9, get off. There are lots of table there

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I need a little help on how to place my bets after losing 3 times with prog 123.

As you know, when we lost 2 times with S40, the run is already 3 in a row. I always win the 1st circle but lost to 2nd and 3rd circle (so that will be prog 12 already) so if i make 3 the LC, does it mean that 3 circles already define that i should bet my 3rd hand on OTR?

Another problem is when i choose to stay mode 3 (lost 3 times) before going OTR, the run is already 4 circles and i have lost 6 units with 123 prog. Then i go OTR with 4 units and lost since the run stops at 4. I am confused that whether should i stay on the same side or go OTR with the 4 units?

Even when i choose a really bias shoe, i encounter the problem with mode 3. But i can't possibly choose mode 2 as there are no indications in the shoe.

Live shoe played yesterday:

B 121222111222115211

I saw the above and started playing. Does the 5 indicated anything?

Then came the following:

B 112141132312

B 51611

I was in +5 but since i hit the 4 i started to lose and ended up with a -9!!!!???!!! WTH!

Another beautiful shoe i found

P 1111112121111122

I jumped in after seeing the above

Then came the horror

P 13241111413

B 131172131

P 1111232121

I cannot understand why i score a -6 for this shoe??? The problem is i keep losing to the prog 123 on the wrong side and i did not bet the 4units or go OTR as my confidence was affected. When i did win on the ZZ 1's and 2's, i was only getting back my losses.

These 2 shoes really affected me yesterday. However i did win a +14 and +20 in 2 other shoes so overall still a win. However i want to learn how to overcome the 3 losses part and how to bet after prog 123? It seems tricky as the mode changes in the shoe.

Sometimes i win at 123 but sometimes lost and i am not sure how to bet the 4 units and stopped betting. When i start i always go back to 1 unit again and that's why i lose the shoe. What i mean is the mode changes in one single shoe and confused me.

Can anyone please enlighten me?

This is a little too technical for the public forum so I'll move this question over to the Private Forum and address it there. Also, the public should be aware that some of the play here, while mostly good, contains some important technical errors that I am addressing in the private forum. I say this for the sake of public members who may be attempting to copy the play presented here to the public. If you are going to learn this, learn it right. Winning Baccarat is very elusive and you must know exactly what you are doing and why. That is only taught in the private forum. But the good news here is that here is two private members that both won back their private forum membership tuition their first day out. We charge exactly what the average Baccarat player loses per day world wide and no more.

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This is a little too technical for the public forum so I'll move this question over to the Private Forum and address it there. Also, the public should be aware that some of the play here, while mostly good, contains some important technical errors that I am addressing in the private forum. I say this for the sake of public members who may be attempting to copy the play presented here to the public. If you are going to learn this, learn it right. Winning Baccarat is very elusive and you must know exactly what you are doing and why. That is only taught in the private forum. But the good news here is that here is two private members that both won back their private forum membership tuition their first day out. We charge exactly what the average Baccarat player loses per day world wide and no more.

Ellis you've mistaken. I posted my questions in the private forum NOT public. =)

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Ellis you've mistaken. I posted my questions in the private forum NOT public. =)

Whoops, OK! I've been a little under the whether the last couple days and my head is not quite right. I mean, even more off than usual. OK, I'll answer here.

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I need a little help on how to place my bets after losing 3 times with prog 123.

As you know, when we lost 2 times with S40, the run is already 3 in a row. I always win the 1st circle but lost to 2nd and 3rd circle (so that will be prog 12 already) so if i make 3 the LC, does it mean that 3 circles already define that i should bet my 3rd hand on OTR?

Another problem is when i choose to stay mode 3 (lost 3 times) before going OTR, the run is already 4 circles and i have lost 6 units with 123 prog. Then i go OTR with 4 units and lost since the run stops at 4. I am confused that whether should i stay on the same side or go OTR with the 4 units?

Even when i choose a really bias shoe, i encounter the problem with mode 3. But i can't possibly choose mode 2 as there are no indications in the shoe.

Live shoe played yesterday:

B 121222111222115211

I saw the above and started playing. Does the 5 indicated anything?

Then came the following:

B 112141132312

B 51611

I was in +5 but since i hit the 4 i started to lose and ended up with a -9!!!!???!!! WTH!

Another beautiful shoe i found

P 1111112121111122

I jumped in after seeing the above

Then came the horror

P 13241111413

B 131172131

P 1111232121

I cannot understand why i score a -6 for this shoe??? The problem is i keep losing to the prog 123 on the wrong side and i did not bet the 4units or go OTR as my confidence was affected. When i did win on the ZZ 1's and 2's, i was only getting back my losses.

These 2 shoes really affected me yesterday. However i did win a +14 and +20 in 2 other shoes so overall still a win. However i want to learn how to overcome the 3 losses part and how to bet after prog 123? It seems tricky as the mode changes in the shoe.

Sometimes i win at 123 but sometimes lost and i am not sure how to bet the 4 units and stopped betting. When i start i always go back to 1 unit again and that's why i lose the shoe. What i mean is the mode changes in one single shoe and confused me.

Can anyone please enlighten me?

This is an important question because the answer helps tie all the components of NOR together. At first, you tend to see NOR as a bunch of disjointed rules, some on bet placement, some on bet amount, some on System Selection and some on Mode Selection. For this reason I think it is a good question for the formal NOR manual so I'll answer it as such so I can copy my reply over to the manual later.

A problem to keep in mind associated with answering such questions is that we are usually taking a shoe out of the context of the casino. That is always problematical. In the casino we have much more information available to us than we do once the shoe is taken out of the casino and put in the forum where we have nothing to go on but the shoe itself. We have no other information such as prior shoes, prior shoes that same color, age of cards, time of day, longest runs, etc.

However, shoes that start this choppy don't usually come out of thin air. So I'm going to assume this shoe came from a choppy table. (choppy prior shoes)

What difference does that make?

A lot: The choppier the table has been, the more confidence I have in it and the sooner I'm going to jump in.

I always look a little askance at players who say; "I always wait at least 20 plays before I'll jump in." This is fine for internet play such as the game the guys are playing on the thread "Don't Try This At Home..." But in a casino, your first duty is to find the MOST biased situation. When you are successful, the sooner you get in, the better. You don't want to be found just standing there watching money go by. That is the advantage of real casinos. You don't want to give up that huge advantage.

This shoe, I would very likely jump in early, maybe, depending on the prior shoes, as early as the second play. But I don't know your particular circumstances. Maybe this shoe had already gone 20 plays before you got there. I don't know.

But this brings up the point: "Do your table sweep quickly." Learn to assess a tote board at a glance. Is it biased or not? If not, pass it by W/O pausing.

But, when you see a board THIS biased, you jump in right then and there. You certainly are not going to find a more biased table than this one. But granted, that takes a little experience.

Maybe we played the prior shoe(s) at this table so we already know the table is extreme chop. In that case I would definitely start at play 2. Or maybe I saw the tail end of the prior shoe and it was also super chop. Super chop tables are common esp. in the morning and they don't happen by accident. There is sound reason for this.

If the table is new to us the first thing I would do is check another player's card of the prior shoe(s). Unlike BJ, Bac is a friendly game. Use that to your advantage. We need ALL the advantage we can get.

Why is it important to get into a highly biased shoe early???

This shoe explains that nicely: Had we started at play 2, we would already have made our +10 at play 16 betting a simple 1,2 prog. Our first 3 bet does not come up until play 25. Had we waited for 20 plays, there went 10 easy units. We found the situation we were looking for. Fine, jump on it, the sooner the better. It won't last forever.

But, we aren't going to find a situation this good every time we do a table sweep. Sometimes we have to sit out at the best table we can find for several plays to confirm which system is best. Sometimes as many as ten plays. BUT if we are still trying to decide at play 20, that table is no good. We don't want to be found playing it at all. Sure, MAYBE the shoe will get better but it is just as likely to get even worse.

OK, that said, lets get to your questions and deliberations on Mode.

First, you seem to be choosing your Mode arbitrarily. YOU don't make that decision at all. The shoe makes that decision. YOU are merely an innocent bystander. The shoe knows better than you do.

Mode is not always right but it is always right more than it is wrong if we do it right.

Now, for S40, let me show you an EXTREMELY simple way. It is the same as we already do it for F. But that works just as well for 40 and OTB4L AND gives us a simple universal way to determine Mode the same way for all 3 systems.

First, forget SAP and forget events counting of any kind. Also forget the 234 and 345 progs because we are ONLY going to deploy those progs in Mode 2. If the shoe decides to go to Mode 3, we are best off to back down to the 123 4 prog. WHY? Simple! Because Mode 3 needs a 4th bet and the 234 and 345 don't have a 4th bet.

If we do everything right we will seldom be in a shoe long enough for SAP or events counting to do any better than this simple way I'm about to show you.

So what do we go by??? Simple! Our 3 bet. And ONLY our 3 bet!

Watch my lips! There are only two Modes.

We start in Mode 3 unless table history says otherwise.

If we win our 3 bet we stay in the same Mode.

If we lose our 3 bet we switch Modes.

Could anything be simpler??? It works for all 3 systems!

Add to that:

In Mode 2 we stay OTR for 2 bets.

In Mode 3 we stay OTR for only one bet win or lose.

End of story, end of Mode discussion.

Now, let's play your shoe by those incredibly simple rules and see what happens:

Next post:

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Thank you Ellis for the reply. You are right! The shoe had already gone 20 plays before i got there. So upon seeing such beautiful shoe, i jumped in but encountered the 3's and 4's after few hands and i made mistakes by the modes.

Now that you've explained, i know how to bet next time. However i have replayed the shoe again and if i choose mode 2, i will win most of the 3rd bet (3 units) and not mode 3.

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OK, your shoe looks like this:

B 1212221112221

P 15211112141

B 132312512

B 411 = 66 plays

First, there are so many single 1's and 2s at the beginning I would also be keeping OTB4L in mind but the 5ZZ starting at play 10 would dissolve that thought. S40 it is.

So, starting at play 2 we start S40 with a 123 4 prog in Mode 3.

Why do we start in Mode 3? Why not the less treacherous Mode 2?

Because Mode 3 beats all 1's, 2s and 3s for sure which is 87% of all events. Mode 2 beats 75% of all events.

At the bottom of the first column (play 20) we find ourselves at +12 W/O ever betting more that 2. We could quit right there with a huge player advantage. 46%!

But let's say we are young and foolish and since we hit +10 already in the first column we keep on trucking. Ha, but also because I can't teach you anything if we quit in the first col.

So OK, here we are in Mode 3 and we get to play 25 where we make our first 3 bet and lose it.

OK, that losing 3 bet, by my rules above puts us in MODE 2 right then and there even though we win our 4 bet OTR at play26.

Now, since we were in Mode 3, We only stay OTR for ONE bet and therefore win our 1 bet at play 27. But now we are in Mode 2 so now we win our OTR 3 bet at play 39 (note I stayed OTR and lost my 1 bet so I go right back to opposites with a ONE bet)so we STAY in Mode 2 which causes us to lose our 3 bet at play 45 so we are now back in Mode 3 which causes us to win our 3 bet at play 50 So we stay Mode 3 which causes us to to lose our 3 bet at play 56 putting us in Mode 2. So we win our 3,1 OTR bets at plays 62 and 63 and finish the shoe with +22 at play 66.

Now, draw this shoe out and play it yourselves as I did so you can see for yourselves just how simple it was. You will very seldom see a shoe with as many Mode changes as this shoe had yet we came through it with flying colors. Such is the power of NOR.

If someone who came up with the same score I did wants to post this shoe, please do so and thanks in advance. Now I think we have Mode down to the same simplicity as the rest of NOR. Any questions?

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Thank you Ellis for the reply. You are right! The shoe had already gone 20 plays before i got there. So upon seeing such beautiful shoe, i jumped in but encountered the 3's and 4's after few hands and i made mistakes by the modes.

Now that you've explained, i know how to bet next time. However i have replayed the shoe again and if i choose mode 2, i will win most of the 3rd bet (3 units) and not mode 3.

Correct! But nevertheless there is no way for you to know that before hand. You are better off going by the latest information as I did. This particular shoe was exceptional because it had so many Mode changes and staying in one Mode would work well in THIS shoe. But most shoes have only one or two mode changes if any at all and latest information is best. Plus, it's simple. Sometimes you win no matter which Mode you are in like 5 in a rows. But I won against every run in the shoe except the 3 in a row ending at play 44 and you also lost that one. You will lose on every 3 in a row. This shoe only had two but what if it had 9???

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OK, your shoe looks like this:

B 1212221112221

P 15211112141

B 132312512

B 411 = 66 plays

First, there are so many single 1's and 2s at the beginning I would also be keeping OTB4L in mind but the 5ZZ starting at play 10 would dissolve that thought. S40 it is.

So, starting at play 2 we start S40 with a 123 4 prog in Mode 3.

Why do we start in Mode 3? Why not the less treacherous Mode 2?

Because Mode 3 beats all 1's, 2s and 3s for sure which is 87% of all events. Mode 2 beats 75% of all events.

At the bottom of the first column (play 20) we find ourselves at +12 W/O ever betting more that 2. We could quit right there with a huge player advantage. 46%!

But let's say we are young and foolish and since we hit +10 already in the first column we keep on trucking. Ha, but also because I can't teach you anything if we quit in the first col.

So OK, here we are in Mode 3 and we get to play 25 where we make our first 3 bet and lose it.

OK, that losing 3 bet, by my rules above puts us in MODE 2 right then and there even though we win our 4 bet OTR at play26.

Now, since we were in Mode 3, We only stay OTR for ONE bet and therefore win our 1 bet at play 27. But now we are in Mode 2 so now we win our OTR 3 bet at play 39 (note I stayed OTR and lost my 1 bet so I go right back to opposites with a ONE bet)so we STAY in Mode 2 which causes us to lose our 3 bet at play 45 so we are now back in Mode 3 which causes us to win our 3 bet at play 50 So we stay Mode 3 which causes us to to lose our 3 bet at play 56 putting us in Mode 2. So we win our 3,1 OTR bets at plays 62 and 63 and finish the shoe with +22 at play 66.

Now, draw this shoe out and play it yourselves as I did so you can see for yourselves just how simple it was. You will very seldom see a shoe with as many Mode changes as this shoe had yet we came through it with flying colors. Such is the power of NOR.

If someone who came up with the same score I did wants to post this shoe, please do so and thanks in advance. Now I think we have Mode down to the same simplicity as the rest of NOR. Any questions?

Ellis thank you for this step by step explanation. I want to ask why do you bet 4 units on hand 47 and placed 1 on hand 57 instead?

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OK, your shoe looks like this:

B 1212221112221

P 15211112141

B 132312512

B 411 = 66 plays

First, there are so many single 1's and 2s at the beginning I would also be keeping OTB4L in mind but the 5ZZ starting at play 10 would dissolve that thought. S40 it is.

So, starting at play 2 we start S40 with a 123 4 prog in Mode 3.

Why do we start in Mode 3? Why not the less treacherous Mode 2?

Because Mode 3 beats all 1's, 2s and 3s for sure which is 87% of all events. Mode 2 beats 75% of all events.

At the bottom of the first column (play 20) we find ourselves at +12 W/O ever betting more that 2. We could quit right there with a huge player advantage. 46%!

But let's say we are young and foolish and since we hit +10 already in the first column we keep on trucking. Ha, but also because I can't teach you anything if we quit in the first col.

So OK, here we are in Mode 3 and we get to play 25 where we make our first 3 bet and lose it.

OK, that losing 3 bet, by my rules above puts us in MODE 2 right then and there even though we win our 4 bet OTR at play26.

Now, since we were in Mode 3, We only stay OTR for ONE bet and therefore win our 1 bet at play 27. But now we are in Mode 2 so now we win our OTR 3 bet at play 39 (note I stayed OTR and lost my 1 bet so I go right back to opposites with a ONE bet)so we STAY in Mode 2 which causes us to lose our 3 bet at play 45 so we are now back in Mode 3 which causes us to win our 3 bet at play 50 So we stay Mode 3 which causes us to to lose our 3 bet at play 56 putting us in Mode 2. So we win our 3,1 OTR bets at plays 62 and 63 and finish the shoe with +22 at play 66.

Now, draw this shoe out and play it yourselves as I did so you can see for yourselves just how simple it was. You will very seldom see a shoe with as many Mode changes as this shoe had yet we came through it with flying colors. Such is the power of NOR.

If someone who came up with the same score I did wants to post this shoe, please do so and thanks in advance. Now I think we have Mode down to the same simplicity as the rest of NOR. Any questions?

Correct! But nevertheless there is no way for you to know that before hand. You are better off going by the latest information as I did. This particular shoe was exceptional because it had so many Mode changes and staying in one Mode would work well in THIS shoe. But most shoes have only one or two mode changes if any at all and latest information is best. Plus, it's simple. Sometimes you win no matter which Mode you are in like 5 in a rows. But I won against every run in the shoe except the 3 in a row ending at play 44 and you also lost that one. You will lose on every 3 in a row. This shoe only had two but what if it had 9???

I understand why after you explained it. So once we lose on one mode, we will change to the other mode automatically correct? Are there any cases whereby the modes change back again? (example mode 3 we lost, change to mode 2 and lost again)

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Ellis thank you for this step by step explanation. I want to ask why do you bet 4 units on hand 47 and placed 1 on hand 57 instead?

Umm, I think you meant to ask why did I bet only 1 unit at hand 45 after a losing 3, but 4 units at hand 57 after a losing 3 and also hand 26? Right?

Anyway the answer is because at hand 45, I lost an OTR bet and anytime we lose an OTR bet we go back to a 1 bet when we are betting the 123 4 regardless if the OTR bet was 1, 3 or 4. We are very stingy with our 4 bets.

A similar question would be why did I make a 4 bet at play 26 when I had no prior experience with 4 runs. I wouldn't blame anyone for backing off to a 1 bet there or even no bet at all. But first I had more than sufficient winnings to make the bet but this shoe had just broken out of the 2 jail. (The longest prior run was only 2.) The shoe bypassed 3 altogether and went to 4. It broke the mold. It went Maverick. That is very rare. Maybe it will keep going. But granted that was pretty whimsical but it is what experience tells me.

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I understand why after you explained it. So once we lose on one mode, we will change to the other mode automatically correct? Are there any cases whereby the modes change back again? (example mode 3 we lost, change to mode 2 and lost again)

Yes! and an excellent question. This came up before with F. What if the shoe goes 232323 on the weak side. We have 3 options: 1.) Quit 2.) Play our modes backwards: Go to 2 when it says 3 and 3 when it says 2 or 3.) Stick to one Mode as you did. I hate it when that happens.

But here is another way to look at it: No matter how clever we think we are there is always the shoe from hell that does the exact opposite of all our clever thinking. That is what our -8 stop loss is for and always remember: Nothing says we MUST go all the way to - 8.

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Here is another related thought: Whenever you stay in the same Mode regardless of the shoe, you are playing purely mechanical and purely mechanical merely breaks even in the long run.

P.S. I hear you've been talking to some of my friends over there. Good!

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I played again and result 21. Withygal also scored 21

OK, here are my plays starting at play 2:

p1,b1,b2,p1,b1,b2,p1,p2,b1,b2,p1,b1,p1,b1,b2,p1,p2,b1,b2 = +12

p1,b1,p1,p2,p3,b4,p1,b1,b2,p1,b1,p1,b1,p1,p2,b1,p1,p2,b3,b1 = +19

b2,p1,b1,b2,p3,p1,p2,b1,b2,b3,p1,b1,b2,p1,p2,p3,b4,p1,b1,p1 = +18

p2,b3,b1,p1,p2,b1 = +22

OK, check where you differed and we will discuss those plays and post the shoe.

The actual shoe again was:

B 1212221112221

P 15211112141

B 132312512

B 411 = 66 plays

Can somebody please post it for us?

BTW, note that we got through the 6 in a row just fine:

Our score on the play before the 6 was +18

Our score on the play after the 6 was +21

Had the run gone 7, we still would have beat it.

And had it gone 8 our 4 bet would have saved us.

And Mode 3 can even beat a 9 in a row!

This shows you how S40 protects itself from runs which is essential for a NOR chop system because we still often see runs even in the chopiest of shoes. This shoe had a final OR count of only +3 but NOR S40 killed it with only 2 4 bets. This helps demonstrate why NOR really doesn't need the more aggressive and riskier U1D2 M2. I would rather see you increase your base unit to make more money rather than go to a riskier prog. I have nothing against U1D2 M2. After all, I invented it. But NOR doesn't need to be that aggressive to win nicely.

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Yes! and an excellent question. This came up before with F. What if the shoe goes 232323 on the weak side. We have 3 options: 1.) Quit 2.) Play our modes backwards: Go to 2 when it says 3 and 3 when it says 2 or 3.) Stick to one Mode as you did. I hate it when that happens.

But here is another way to look at it: No matter how clever we think we are there is always the shoe from hell that does the exact opposite of all our clever thinking. That is what our -8 stop loss is for and always remember: Nothing says we MUST go all the way to - 8.

Yes Ellis that was what i've noticed in some choppy shoes. The modes are not consistent at all. That was why i lost my chips. I know how to handle it next time after your explanation. Thank you very much! =)

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Here is another related thought: Whenever you stay in the same Mode regardless of the shoe, you are playing purely mechanical and purely mechanical merely breaks even in the long run.

P.S. I hear you've been talking to some of my friends over there. Good!

Yes Ellis i have! We are trying to network among Asia BTC members so as to help each other improve at the game.

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OK, here are my plays starting at play 2:

p1,b1,b2,p1,b1,b2,p1,p2,b1,b2,p1,b1,p1,b1,b2,p1,p2,b1,b2 = +12

p1,b1,p1,p2,p3,b4,p1,b1,b2,p1,b1,p1,b1,p1,p2,b1,p1,p2,b3,b1 = +19

b2,p1,b1,b2,p3,p1,p2,b1,b2,b3,p1,b1,b2,p1,p2,p3,b4,p1,b1,p1 = +18

p2,b3,b1,p1,p2,b1 = +22

OK, check where you differed and we will discuss those plays and post the shoe.

The actual shoe again was:

B 1212221112221

P 15211112141

B 132312512

B 411 = 66 plays

Can somebody please post it for us?

BTW, note that we got through the 6 in a row just fine:

Our score on the play before the 6 was +18

Our score on the play after the 6 was +21

There are no 6 in a row Ellis.

However i am able to get the same answer as you and i can understand the way you bet. I will practice on my other shoes.

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