How to bet after 3 losses?

[Guest]

There are no 6 in a row Ellis.

If I copied your shoe right, at least as I posted the shoe, there are 6 Banks starting at play 59, right?

Don't let the column change fool you.

[witchygal]

If I copied your shoe right, at least as I posted the shoe, there are 6 Banks starting at play 59, right?

Don't let the column change fool you.

OH YES!!! You are right! I'm fooled by the separate columns! Gotta be more observant hee hee. =)

[Guest]

OH YES!!! You are right! I'm fooled by the separate columns! Gotta be more observant hee hee. =)

Ha, I'm old but I'm not that senile just yet.

Now the question is why didn't you guys also hit +22???

Edited November 7, 2011 by Guest

[witchygal]

Ha, I'm old but I'm not that senile just yet.

Now the question is why didn't you guys also hit +22???

Yes i hit +22 Ellis.

Can i bother you one more time to play the following shoe?

P 1111112121111122

(i started after the above and scored -6 due to modes)

P 13241111413

B 131172131

P 1111232121

[Guest]

Yes i hit +22 Ellis.

Can i bother you one more time to play the following shoe?

P 1111112121111122

(i started after the above and scored -6 due to modes)

P 13241111413

B 131172131

P 1111232121

Good Grief, you need to be finding these tables sooner! I'm glad we got the +22 thing straightened out though. But what about core???

I'll take a stab at it but probably wait until morning. As a diabetic, I'm smarter in the morning and it is all down hill after that.

Hmmm, I wonder if Singaporians would go to a seminar in the morning???

BTW, is that how you say it? "Singaporians"? Geez, that would be a bad thing to get wrong.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Guest

[witchygal]

Good Grief, you need to be finding these tables sooner! I'm glad we got the +22 thing straightened out though. But what about core???

I'll take a stab at it but probably wait until morning. As a diabetic, I'm smarter in the morning and it is all down hill after that.

Hmmm, I wonder if Singaporians would go to a seminar in the morning???

Yes Ellis! I am always late and always see these beautiful shoes and when i got to the table they have already gone by 20 hands. However are we supposed to observe the shoe for 15 to 20 hands before jumping in? OR and system to use is always established by 20th hand right? If i have entered from the beginning, i will not know which system to use.

Thank you i will wait for your posting on the shoe. Take a good rest.

Yes i suppose Singaporeans would attend a seminar in the morning if it is held on weekends (saturday or sunday)

[Guest]

Yes Ellis! I am always late and always see these beautiful shoes and when i got to the table they have already gone by 20 hands. However are we supposed to observe the shoe for 15 to 20 hands before jumping in? OR and system to use is always established by 20th hand right? If i have entered from the beginning, i will not know which system to use.

Thank you i will wait for your posting on the shoe. Take a good rest.

Yes i suppose Singaporeans would attend a seminar in the morning if it is held on weekends (saturday or sunday)

Ahh, of course, SingaporEans. Don't know. I may be too old for such an undertaking. The seminar I mean, not the shoe. But at first glance that will be a tough shoe where you started. I'm not so sure I won't end up -6 too.

But no, you are taking too long on your sweeps. And waiting too long to get in. Any shoe that starts with 1111 you already know what you are going to play. You just don't know the Mode yet. That is why we always start with Mode 3 with S40.

Make your initial sweep W/O breaking stride. Don't linger at a table unless it is SOOO good you want to jump in right now. Note which are the good tables. Strong biases stand out like a sore thumb. Then go back to the good ones and either choose or don't play. But the closer to the beginning of a shoe you start, the better.

Your casino tends to be making a mockery of my statement that the stronger the bias the more likely it is to continue. But every casino has its own quirks. Go by what you see at YOUR casino. Your casino is trying to tell you something: "Get in sooner and get out sooner!" OK, fine. Do what it's telling you.

[witchygal]

Good Grief, you need to be finding these tables sooner! I'm glad we got the +22 thing straightened out though. But what about core???

I'll take a stab at it but probably wait until morning. As a diabetic, I'm smarter in the morning and it is all down hill after that.

Hmmm, I wonder if Singaporians would go to a seminar in the morning???

BTW, is that how you say it? "Singaporians"? Geez, that would be a bad thing to get wrong.

Ahh, of course, SingaporEans. Don't know. I may be too old for such an undertaking. The seminar I mean, not the shoe. But at first glance that will be a tough shoe where you started. I'm not so sure I won't end up -6 too.

But no, you are taking too long on your sweeps. And waiting too long to get in. Any shoe that starts with 1111 you already know what you are going to play. You just don't know the Mode yet. That is why we always start with Mode 3 with S40.

Make your initial sweep W/O breaking stride. Don't linger at a table unless it is SOOO good you want to jump in right now. Note which are the good tables. Strong biases stand out like a sore thumb. Then go back to the good ones and either choose or don't play. But the closer to the beginning of a shoe you start, the better.

Your casino tends to be making a mockery of my statement that the stronger the bias the more likely it is to continue. But every casino has its own quirks. Go by what you see at YOUR casino. Your casino is trying to tell you something: "Get in sooner and get out sooner!" OK, fine. Do what it's telling you.

Yes Ellis i will learn how to identify the stronger bias tables. It is easy to spot them just by glancing at the tote boards. Maybe i hesitate too much sometimes as i always make sure i count OR and SAP before jumping in.

That is why players in Asia say the shoes are basically trendless or a mixture in both casinos in Singapore.

[Guest]

Yes Ellis i will learn how to identify the stronger bias tables. It is easy to spot them just by glancing at the tote boards. Maybe i hesitate too much sometimes as i always make sure i count OR and SAP before jumping in.

That is why players in Asia say the shoes are basically trendless or a mixture in both casinos in Singapore.

Yes, taken in total they ARE trendless. It is the same here. But taken individually and at different times of the day, given enough tables, you can nearly always find a strong bias. When you can't, you shouldn't play. Tip, you usually find your strongest bias with brand new cards and with very old cards.

You seem to be doing very well finding biases. Now we've got to get you finding them quicker.

BTW, please, all of you, don't take it personal when I criticize your play or any other aspect of your game. Your play may be near perfect and even better than most but I still criticize you. That is because I want each and every one of you to be the very best you can be. We all have different potential but we all have potential.

[witchygal]

Good Grief, you need to be finding these tables sooner! I'm glad we got the +22 thing straightened out though. But what about core???

I'll take a stab at it but probably wait until morning. As a diabetic, I'm smarter in the morning and it is all down hill after that.

Hmmm, I wonder if Singaporians would go to a seminar in the morning???

BTW, is that how you say it? "Singaporians"? Geez, that would be a bad thing to get wrong.

Yes, taken in total they ARE trendless. It is the same here. But taken individually and at different times of the day, given enough tables, you can nearly always find a strong bias. When you can't, you shouldn't play. Tip, you usually find your strongest bias with brand new cards and with very old cards.

You seem to be doing very well finding biases. Now we've got to get you finding them quicker.

BTW, please, all of you, don't take it personal when I criticize your play or any other aspect of your game. Your play may be near perfect and even better than most but I still criticize you. That is because I want each and every one of you to be the very best you can be. We all have different potential but we all have potential.

I am learning something new everyday! Yes Ellis if i am not sure i will not play. This is risk management by my ownself.

It is only with your comments and criticism that we will improve at the game! Besides, you are the best person to learn from! =)

[TangNangDoaHoa]

HI Teacher Ellis how are you

[Jim Files]

Wow! Thanks Ellis for the best understanding yet of the Mode 2 and Mode 3's. I've been struggling to understand these and this is the clearest explanations I've seen yet to help me understand the modes and how to apply them. I've attempted to create this example and attach it here. I hope I have it right.

[ATTACH]2185[/ATTACH]

[witchygal]

Wow! Thanks Ellis for the best understanding yet of the Mode 2 and Mode 3's. I've been struggling to understand these and this is the clearest explanations I've seen yet to help me understand the modes and how to apply them. I've attempted to create this example and attach it here. I hope I have it right.

[ATTACH]2185[/ATTACH]

Wow tjfiles, glad i'm not the only one trying to understand the modes. Thank you for posting the shoe!

Do you wanna try playing this? I am still waiting for Ellis's answer. =)

P 1111112121111122

(i started after the above and scored -6 due to modes)

P 13241111413

B 131172131

P 1111232121

[Guest]

Exactly right TJ and thanks for posting it.

I got to thinking about this whole Mode thing and realized that the explanation in the prelim manual is far more complex than what I actually do in the casino that seems to work very well most of the time.

You COULD expand on this new procedure a bit by saying which way would my 3 bets have won most of the time? But I don't think that really has a better hit rate than simply going by the last 3. I think this is because when you go by the last 3 only, you are going by the latest information. You are allowing for change in the shoe.

Of course, if that first 3 comes up too early in the shoe, you likely won't actually make the bet. Then you can go by which way it WOULD have won.

Now about the only thing that can go wrong, as Witchy pointed out, is when you get a shoe where the Mode keeps changing every time it comes up. Thankfully we don't get a lot of such shoes. THEN you can go by which way the 3 bet would have won most often and just stick to THAT Mode.

or:

Remember in Basic System 40 (the way it actually won 40 shoes in a row played at 5 different casinos) what we did is this:

Our first OTR bet was always 1 unit and we stayed at 1 unit on our OTR bets until we lost an initial OTR. Then next time we went 2 and if that lost next time we went 3 and so forth. We called that a prog within a prog.

We did the same thing with the OTR bet right under the initial OTR bets. If our 1 bet lost, next time we are at the 2nd OTR bet we bet 2 and so forth.

Now you don't win as much that way (We averaged about +8 per shoe) but you win more often. Somewhere around 90% if you could find choppy shoes.

Ten of those 40 consecutive winning shoes were played at the Stardust Vegas by Ann and me. It was a hundred dollar Big Bac 14 player table. We started alone but another strange couple joined us soon after. This jerk was loudly mocking our every bet to his girlfriend saying we had no idea how to play. He was betting an up as you win Fibonaci on repeats AT A CHOP TABLE. Ann and I never said a word while this guy completely embarrassed his girlfriend. Ten shoes later we were up $8000 and he was down $40,000. We hadn't said a word the whole time. But we did get even with this jerk. When he finally quit in disgust, he said to me: "What do you do for a living?"

Ann replied in a meek voice, "We play Baccarat!"

Edited November 8, 2011 by Guest

[Guest]

HI Teacher Ellis how are you

Hey Tang! How you been?

[moneybac]

hi witchygal,i noticed your chop shoes for 20 plays,then falls apart then comes back,when you have around 15 plays left,i been doing revers,looking for a bad table,goes bad for 20 plays,everyone bails except me another player,then i see first 1,an 3's,an more,i start playing,sometimes 30 ,40 play later it falls apart,the other day it would go 4-7 plays,1's,then next time it would go 3 plays,then back to 4 or more,back to 1's,it became a joke,except it did go a 4 then 1's then 7 in a row then back to 1's in the middle,we did good on that shoe,sap seems to keep you alert,but you had to stop when you saw 2's at the end because now you get everything,unperdicable,this guy kept playing he was so happy,after he lost 4-5 bets,he stopped,still ahead,by then our table was full again.get ready for another slaughter.it could have been 1's and 2's,sap would have me there,just wondering if the shuffler or factory card prep has something to do with this,i'm seeing this a lot

[witchygal]

hi witchygal,i noticed your chop shoes for 20 plays,then falls apart then comes back,when you have around 15 plays left,i been doing revers,looking for a bad table,goes bad for 20 plays,everyone bails except me another player,then i see first 1,an 3's,an more,i start playing,sometimes 30 ,40 play later it falls apart,the other day it would go 4-7 plays,1's,then next time it would go 3 plays,then back to 4 or more,back to 1's,it became a joke,except it did go a 4 then 1's then 7 in a row then back to 1's in the middle,we did good on that shoe,sap seems to keep you alert,but you had to stop when you saw 2's at the end because now you get everything,unperdicable,this guy kept playing he was so happy,after he lost 4-5 bets,he stopped,still ahead,by then our table was full again.get ready for another slaughter.it could have been 1's and 2's,sap would have me there,just wondering if the shuffler or factory card prep has something to do with this,i'm seeing this a lot

Hi Moneybac,

Thanks for sharing your experiences. So you mean that you will do the reverse way? Enter a shoe when it is difficult and wait till it changes for the better? I rather enter at the easy part and make my units first. Like Ellis said, i have to get to those tables faster, win and get out! =)

[moneybac]

yin yang,if you see it strong one way,everyone banging the table,first 20 hands,just sit an wait see what happens,feel good jump in,hay it might work,stranger things have happened,i have caught a few good games that way lately

[TangNangDoaHoa]

Hey Tang! How you been?

im pretty good thanks,I now winning every single day with your NOR approach and i guess i have no more question for NOR now, THanks alot Ellis for giving us the best baccarat system ever THank You

[Guest]

im pretty good thanks,I now winning every single day with your NOR approach and i guess i have no more question for NOR now, THanks alot Ellis for giving us the best baccarat system ever THank You

Thanks Tang! Now if I could just get the rest of the world to recognize that fact!

[Guest]

yin yang,if you see it strong one way,everyone banging the table,first 20 hands,just sit an wait see what happens,feel good jump in,hay it might work,stranger things have happened,i have caught a few good games that way lately

That is true for Chop and Streak. BUT, don't forget about Neutral. Neutral makes for a very quite table. Usually all the players will be losing. OTB4L tables! Single 1's, 2s and 3s. You will be the only winner. This happens all the time. Casinos LOVE OTB4L shoes and we see more and more of them.

[MVSeahog]

... Ten shoes later we were up $8000 and he was down $40,000. We hadn't said a word the whole time. But we did get even with this jerk. When he finally quit in disgust, he said to me: "What do you do for a living?"

Ann replied in a meek voice, "We play Baccarat!"

Oh man. That's a keeper for sure!

MVS

[MVSeahog]

All,

Well, after looking at the threads, it looks like this is the best one to post to instead of starting a new thread.

I FINALLY got a chance to hit the live B&M casino today and play a bit of NOR. Up until now, most of my baccarat play has been online and only after seeing what the tote boards had thrown up. If it looks "playable", I'd jump in for a few hands and get out.

So, as the wife is up north, freezing her slot machine fingers off, I took the motorcycle down to the Indian casino with the temps in the low 80's!

The plan? Well, I hadn't been in a casino for awhile so the target was only $100 net. Just four lousy units and I could head on down for a steak dinner down the road.

Sat down. Watched the first 4 hands and decided that S40 was the play. As per my normal session, I immediately lost the first two wagers. Arrrrrgh!

Not to worry. Just -2 at this point but the shoe settled down and I got it back to 0 in the next few hands. Still wagering single units until hand 9 when the bet was a 2.

Won that one and I got settled in for the fight.

I was debating about making the switch to OTB4L at this point due to the last 9 hands pointing heavily in that direction but I stayed with S40 for two more, mainly because it really wasn't losing, just holding its own.

Bad call. Three losses later and at hand 13 I FINALLY made the change to OTB4L and ran it out the rest of the way. I have no idea why I've always been adverse to playing OTB4L. There's just no excuse other than some sort of brain fade.

Anyway, OTB4L takes off nicely and I'm back in profit at hand 21.

Hit +6 at hand 29! Woo-Hoo!

I give it my traditional "1 unit flyer bets" to see if I should continue but it loses at hand 31 and I am so out of there with my target win.

I went in with a target of +4 ($100) and netted $110 on the finishing +6 losing wager.

Not earth shattering by any means, but it was a plan and it came together. I wasn't planning on being in the casino all night mainly because I was out of the rhythm of a live casino and just wanted a nice win, not a windfall! Just enough to see NOR win a shoe, make some money and enjoy a nice motorcycle ride.

Here's the shoe. I can post up my play sheet if anyone wants to see it. It was pretty simple with only two comments at hand 6 (start S40) and at hand 13 (start OTB4L).

Obviously, S40 Mode 3 would have won nicely also, but that's not the way I elected to go at the start.

P1322323211

B12112211

MVS

[aegis21]

Great little trip and as always a superlative narrative! I wound up +10 with staying s40 and changing modes on the first three loss. I do have to say this was a killer otb4l shoe, but without any prior knowledge who would know? ( Except for Keith & Ellis)

Great job, I hope I do as well at foxwoods tomorrow!

John

[Guest]

MVS, your reluctance to play OTB4L might have a reason:

With S40, you have only one obstacle - straight runs.

With F it's only 2s vs 3s on the weak side

But with OTB4L its both straight and ZZ runs

Your brain might have reached that conclusion W/O notifying you.

Ha, next time!

But not so bad this time.

At the seminar I made the same mistake of not sticking with OTB4L. Went from -4 to +8 and finished at your same +5. Had I stuck with OTB4L it would have been a back and forth +10. Ha, next time!

Edited December 22, 2011 by Guest