2012 NOR Camp Genting !!!

[vinfong318]

It's true that with progression we can win more when our selection of NOR is correct. Flat better must be very patience better winning 1 bet and losing 1 will take time before the bankroll increases. I flat bet the other day using F3 and won 25 units.

If the decision is correct then just with a streak run we will accumulate some bullets. Core is correct we play on smaller bet to accumulate larger bankroll then we start to bet larger. Key is that I don't feel pressure.

[core]

Well, I agree that flat betting is best for novice players. It keeps your losses lower.

Experienced pros have one huge advantage over novices. We know the quality of a shoe at a glance. This takes time, practice, and experience on the casino floor - lots of it.

The pro knows when to attack but also when to retreat. You can't attack flat betting.

But the novice doesn't yet know a good shoe from a bad shoe. He will inevitably attack when he should be retreating and retreat when he should be attacking, leaving when he should be staying and staying when he should be leaving.

Novice players should not yet try to attack. Nor should they be going to higher than table minimum units. Until they have a firm grasp of the lay of the land.

But one day they wake up realizing they now have this firm grasp. They have graduated. Now the trick is to learn how to attack - how to turn a 10 unit shoe into a 40 unit shoe. Yet also how to turn a -10 unit shoe into a -4 unit shoe.

Flat betting is a good retreat maneuver but attacking flat betting is like attacking with a bb gun.

Sure, the flat bettor can always raise his unit - but so can the progressive bettor.

While flat betting has its place it also has a Catch 22:

To win flat betting you must win the majority of your bets. And if you win the majority of your bets, progressive betting would have won more.

The key is don't attempt progressive betting until you are ready. But once you ARE ready and you find yourself in one of those explosive situations, go for it. You can't win retreating forever.

R u saying dat iam a novice? I stay everyday at casino and doesnt have any job

Progression is okk if you can predict the future. How do u know if the card is good??? If bad, retreat right?? Let me ask you, out from 20 shoes, how many shoes are good??

Go to here ellis. I want to see u play. U may use any progression. Let`s see if you can survive here. Or if you dont want to, you may send your best student here. We can do the battle. Progression vs flat. I already challenged 2 ppl from bf. Bolasutra n fauzy. Both of them shut their mouth. If you can defeat asia with ur nor, i will gladly to pay for ur ticket.

The reason i use flat betting is coz it works perfect on my system. My hit rate is so high. I created a system dat works for mixed shoes n good shoes. If flat betting can win most of the shoes i play everysingle day, why hassle to use progression???

[Guest]

Well nobody is stopping you guys. If it is working at Genting be my guest. I've never played there so I don't know what you are up against or if the same approach could win anywhere else. I've seen a lot of guys go down the flat bet path never to be heard from again. I don't know of a single player who was ever successful flat betting and I know thousands of players. There have been several flat bet systems on the internet but none of them even close to successful. People have been trying it for centuries.

I'm just pointing out the math you are working against.

Novices yes. You are putting up several months against 30 years. core, weren't you betting Martingales or Fibonaci's just several months ago. Now you've gone all the way from one extreme to the other.

vinfong, flat betting F3 is fine. It is an option. But you didn't win 25 units in one shoe. That would mean you had to win 50 hands more than you lost. Shoes aren't that long. Even if it was several shoes, that was good play. I'm just pointing out that you would have won a lot more betting progressively. When we lose we are mostly flat betting too, if we are playing right. But we don't keep flat betting in good shoes. The whole thing is you must know the difference between good and bad shoes.

Look, you guys do whatever you want to do. Play whatever way you want to play. But don't be leading other BTC members down that path for money. You don't have anywhere near the experience.

Others have tried to do the same thing before you but it never worked out neither for the leader or the members.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Guest

[core]

That is very funny ellis

First of all, i have been playing almost 5 years. Yes i did use martingale and ofcourse 1234 as u directed. But in the long run, as i told u before, any progression will die in the long run.

You always say u put ur mouth where the money is. Then why not come to asia? I believe many btc asia want to see u live play.

Ur experience is more than me, dat doesnt mean that u play better than me. U come lah. Cant afford the ticket or afraid to lose???

Here, they dont have ur record, so no need to bet 25 per unit to stay under the radar. You may bet thousands per units. Is dat wonderfull?? Especially nor is the best system in the world right??

[core]

Guys,

Wanna see the real battle??? Me versus ellis. Student vs teacher. Unexperience newbie vs 30 years top guy. Core ultimate vs nor.

Come on ellis, come here, i will provide you the room.

What do u say?? All btc members may see our duel. I think PJ will love to see our duel.

[BigVic]

Guys,

Wanna see the real battle??? Me versus ellis. Student vs teacher. Unexperience newbie vs 30 years top guy. Core ultimate vs nor.

Come on ellis, come here, i will provide you the room.

What do u say?? All btc members may see our duel. I think PJ will love to see our duel.

Core, you don't play NOR? I see that you did buy NOR, correct? If not NOR how do you play now? Another BTC system? What are the shoes like where you play?

I sincerely don't want to get in middle here, but Ellis you know there are ways to win 25 units in a shoe flat betting without having to win "50 hands more than you lost". That was unfair and misleading.

[core]

Hello bigvic,

I used to play nor but not anymore, it doesnt work at asia. Here at genting, they burn 1 card and mostly mixed shoes.

I play my own system. Core ultimate. I use pj score sheet. I only fill sap 1 n 2. And add card counting too. It outperforms nor as nor only works on bias shoe.

[Guest]

core, SAP only works on biased shoes too. That is what it was designed for. Your best bet for random shoes is net betting. That is what it is designed for.

All of the best Mathematicians in the world have tried to apply card counting to Baccarat. They spent decades on it. None were the least bit successful.

If you had more experience you would know these things.

Other Asians are doing fine with NOR but I think they will do better with NB. I think you were doing fine with it too. Why else would you want to teach it at BF.

If you guys want to flat bet, fine, be my guest. Maybe you'll be the first in 400 years to make it work. And if you students want to pay hard earned money on something the world's best system designers couldn't make work, fine, be my guest.

I tried to warn the Maverick followers too and the BK followers. They wouldn't listen either and are out thousands. I'm through warning people. Some people just have to learn the hard way.

[core]

I sell my system bcoz many ppl requested to know how i play. I dont need to teach ppl exactly coz i already said that iam a player typical not teacher.

U still havent answer the challenge. i believe it is an easy challenge coz u have 30 years experience right??? And your iIQ is high too.

[Guest]

Core, you don't play NOR? I see that you did buy NOR, correct? If not NOR how do you play now? Another BTC system? What are the shoes like where you play?

I sincerely don't want to get in middle here, but Ellis you know there are ways to win 25 units in a shoe flat betting without having to win "50 hands more than you lost". That was unfair and misleading.

Is that right Vic? For every hand you lose you must win 2, to come out ahead right? This means you must win at least 2/3rds of the hands does it not? Which is close to impossible. The average 8 deck shoe is 72 plays long. So if you stretch it to 75 plays and he starts at play 1, which is also highly unlikely, he would have to win 50 hands while losing 25 to end up at +25. He would have to win 100% more than he lost. I don't think that is what happened, do you? Nor do I see anything the least bit unfair about it. Those are the mathematical facts of it. Unless you want to get into hit rates higher than 67%. But THAT would be unfair because they simply don't happen esp. in random cards.

However, if the shoe was not random but streaky enough to win 2/3rds of the hands playing F3 (don't know what happened to F2) then vinfong would have won a hell of a lot more with the regular NOR prog. How can you possibly dispute any of that? Isn't it dead accurate?

To answer your question, core says the shoes are not biased there. Therefore they are random. There is nothing in between. Random means no way to predict. He says he plays SAP but SAP cannot work in random cards. He says he counts cards but no card counting scheme has ever worked in Baccarat. So basically he is saying he predicts random cards and then flat bets. And if you pay him he'll tell you how he performs that feat. Hey, be my guest. Personally, I know better.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Guest

[core]

Who said i play sap? I said i fill in sap 1 n 2 but not playing them. I dont play mc or lc. Its not really card counting but i prefer to call it card counting. Sounds cool.

[Guest]

And also, if he is playing SAP he has only been playing if for 2 months at the most because that is when PJ taught it. But core announced this Genting thing months ago, long before he ever heard of SAP. We haven't taught it in years. Back when he announced it he said he was flat betting NOR, then came the Fibonaci thing. Now to flat betting SAP, all in a matter of months. If you are going to buy, you better hurry before it all changes again. Maverick all over again. Then he had Ultimate Maverick. Now Ultimate whatever. Desjavous all over again. Just don't say I didn't warn you.

[Guest]

Who said i play sap? I said i fill in sap 1 n 2 but not playing them. I dont play mc or lc. Its not really card counting but i prefer to call it card counting. Sounds cool.

Ha, well thanks core. You got me tickled with that one.

Do you mean 1st and 2nd liners? That is also for biased cards. I don't think PJ taught 1st liners. But I taught it last week.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Guest

[core]

No, i just fill the 1 and 2 as a indicator to bet.

[BigVic]

And also, if he is playing SAP he has only been playing if for 2 months at the most because that is when PJ taught it. But core announced this Genting thing months ago, long before he ever heard of SAP. We haven't taught it in years. Back when he announced it he said he was flat betting NOR, then came the Fibonaci thing. Now to flat betting SAP, all in a matter of months. If you are going to buy, you better hurry before it all changes again. Maverick all over again. Then he had Ultimate Maverick. Now Ultimate whatever. Desjavous all over again. Just don't say I didn't warn you.

I really wish I could post questions here without the backlash. I'm curious Ellis when did I ever express an interest in buying anything from CORE?

Can you please stop with the whole angry old man thing and please just calm down? All I wanted to do was to find out what casinos were like in the Asia subcontinent. Chances are I'll never travel that far to find out myself, so while I have access to somebody from across the Pacific I thought I'd pick his brain a little.

Thank you Core for answering my questions. Best of luck to you.

[core]

I really wish I could post questions here without the backlash. I'm curious Ellis when did I ever express an interest in buying anything from CORE?

Can you please stop with the whole angry old man thing and please just calm down? All I wanted to do was to find out what casinos were like in the Asia subcontinent. Chances are I'll never travel that far to find out myself, so while I have access to somebody from across the Pacific I thought I'd pick his brain a little.

Thank you Core for answering my questions. Best of luck to you.

Your welcome vic.

[Guest]

But seriously core thanks for the invitation and the offer to cover some of the expenses. I get a lot of such offers, even from Australia, but I'm too old for such an undertaking.

I used to also respond to such challenges. Got challenged by 5 of the top card counters once. I won $10,000 while they lost $10,000. And that was back when $10,000 was worth $100,000 today. Got challenged to the World Championship of Baccarat once. Did OK. I was high money winner but still lost to some damn Belgian. Challenges used to turn me on. But at this point I've already proved all there is to prove. It's your turn now. Keep going at the rate you're going and you'll be a great teacher one day if you live through it. Stop smoking and take some breaks now and then.

[Guest]

I really wish I could post questions here without the backlash. I'm curious Ellis when did I ever express an interest in buying anything from CORE?

Can you please stop with the whole angry old man thing and please just calm down? All I wanted to do was to find out what casinos were like in the Asia subcontinent. Chances are I'll never travel that far to find out myself, so while I have access to somebody from across the Pacific I thought I'd pick his brain a little.

Thank you Core for answering my questions. Best of luck to you.

You didn't Vic but, as usual, I wasn't writing to you individually or specifically or even directly. It just happed to be your post I was replying to. Some already have paid.

I don't mind and even appreciate comments, questions, ideas and improvements.

I even usually let it slide when someone posts a new system.

But, both Keith and I must draw the line when someone starts trying to sell a system on our forum. Especially when we have no way of vouching for that system.

I know guys, and I'm sure you do do, with 20 and 30 years of experience who I would still never let sell on our forum. They just don't know their stuff and never will. Most of our members came to us from those people and are glad they did.

Our forum lends a certain credibility to any Marketeer. Maverick was a hard learned lesson. I don't want to go through that ever again.

Now, maybe core is the best Baccarat genius ever and actually learned to beat random cards flat betting in just a few months. He might have sold himself on that notion but he's got a long way to go to sell me. I've seen this all before too many times.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Guest

[Pamela Conkey]

Core, be carefull what you wish for. There are ALOT of us here that have known Ellis for a long time (1991 to present) and have seen him play both BJ and BAC, he's the real deal. Enough said. Ellis lets get back to how we incorporate NB with NOR. I'm curious to know if we can pull off useing both in a single shoe. You mentioned in another post that it might be getting closer to the point where we can play any shoe. Thanks, Brian...............

[Keith Smith]

Any good marketer knows that if I come to a place where there are people who buy systems to play in the casino I, in effect have a casino players mailing list take your frikin ads elsewhere. Stop trying to solicit my customers

[Guest]

That was unfair and misleading.

Yeah, yeah and last month I was an out and out liar. "You are the liar sir" And this month I'm unfair and misleading. And you are telling me to calm down. You were dead wrong in both instances. Hey, when I'm wrong, I have the balls to apologize. But you can say anything you want, call me any name you want without ever apologizing and I'm supposed to sit here peacefully and answer your questions. Sorry Buddy but you don't come from the same planet I do.

[BigVic]

Yeah, yeah and last month I was an out and out liar. "You are the liar sir" And this month I'm unfair and misleading. And you are telling me to calm down. You were dead wrong in both instances. Hey, when I'm wrong, I have the balls to apologize. But you can say anything you want, call me any name you want without ever apologizing and I'm supposed to sit here peacefully and answer your questions. Sorry Buddy but you don't come from the same planet I do.

I didn't have ANY QUESTIONS for you Ellis. You are so bitter and angry you can't even get the facts straight. I had questions for Core, not you "buddy".

I sure hope you can stop being so hostile and let bygones be bygones.

[Guest]

I didn't have ANY QUESTIONS for you Ellis. You are so bitter and angry you can't even get the facts straight. I had questions for Core, not you "buddy".

I sure hope you can stop being so hostile and let bygones be bygones.

Exactly right. For me all you had is name calling. Yet I am the hostile one. If you don't cotton to hostile people simply stop calling them names. That usually works. It sure as hell is too late to apologize.

[Guest]

Core, be carefull what you wish for. There are ALOT of us here that have known Ellis for a long time (1991 to present) and have seen him play both BJ and BAC, he's the real deal. Enough said. Ellis lets get back to how we incorporate NB with NOR. I'm curious to know if we can pull off useing both in a single shoe. You mentioned in another post that it might be getting closer to the point where we can play any shoe. Thanks, Brian...............

Thanks Brian for the long time support.

But it would not be a fair contest. After all core has his hands tied behind his back flat betting. Can you imagine me losing to a flat bettor in either BJ or Bac. Can you imagine a flat bettor in a Bac Tournament? Two chances, 0 and none.

[core]

Thanks Brian for the long time support.

But it would not be a fair contest. After all core has his hands tied behind his back flat betting. Can you imagine me losing to a flat bettor in either BJ or Bac. Can you imagine a flat bettor in a Bac Tournament? Two chances, 0 and none.

then what r u waiting for?