Sam post a shoe please

[kramden]

Hi Sam,

Listen, I hear your frustration pal.

Do me a favor, read the manual section where it tells you how

to shorthand write a shoe so that you know how.

Then pick any live shoe and post it here. Make sure its a live shoe

or you will be doing yourself a disservice.

I will play it with explanation. I know its after the fact but its for information only.

Now I dont play strict NOR but I will show you the NOR and my thoughts.

Lets see if any lightbulbs go off.

Jus one thing, I am not on a desktop all the time so you

have to be patient with my reply.

Take your time too with the Manual.

Kramden (ready to pay back/forward)

[Ice Cool Sam]

Hi Kramden

I just realized that you had written this thread for me.

First of all thank you for being kind enough and not just judging a book by it's cover.

I amazed all sorts of things people are calling me simply because I am complaining about the Manual not being clear and being difficult to get your head around this forum. I have anger management issues, I am retarded, I whine a lot and ...

But anyway thanks for your help.

Currently I have no access to any casino's but this is a shoe I have from 15th December 2013. Darwin Casino in Australia. Round 7 pm. the play had started when I got to the table.

BC VERSION

B 1143312131

B 3241334

P 141111143111

P 121243

I will bring both the long version as well with ties. (I know that NOR doesn't believe in ties, nor do I but this just for you to see the whole shoe).

B P B B B B P P P B B B T P B B P B B B P

B T B T B P P B B T B B P B B B P P P B B B T T B

P B B B B P B P B P B B B T B P P P T B P B

P B B P B B P P P P B T B B

My goal is to win 3 to 5 units using a 20 unit bankroll. That will be my ultimate goal with real money.

Regards

[Sport]

hey sambo,i did a little research and found that the Darwin casino has 26 tables and tables open at noon every day.Remember that at noon every day new cards you already have an advantage situation for blackjack by playing 3rd base.SLOW DOWN and start to do a recon of your surroundings and see how many tables open at noon.See if your bac tables are hand shuffles or machines shuffled or see if each shoe comes pre boxed and shuffled.This is the place where the members can help you like no other place in the world.Ellis can help you just give him the info he needs!

[Guest]

B 1143312131

B 3241334

P 141111143111

P 121243

Sam, if you play it OTB4L mode 3 U1D2 per NOR+ instruction and start at play 3, you hit +20 the first time at play 43 which is a good place to quit.

But if you continue on you hit +20 again at play 46 where you should certainly quit. But if you continue on you finish at +25.

Very nice shoe! If you quit the first time you hit +20 your highest bet is 3 - otherwuise it is 4. Your PA quitting at your first +20 is an incredible 32%.

You never even need to go OTR if you quit at the first +20 as you should. So, a very simple shoe.

Try it. If you can't figure out the plays, let me know and i'll give them to you.

[Ice Cool Sam]

Dear Ruebel

Thank you for the comment. That's probably what they say in their website. Unfortunately they only have 3 actives one on the floor. They might have a bit more upstairs which is for the high rollers. They are all hand shuffled.

I will be in Adelaide which has some more tables than Darwin. I won't be in Adelaide till end of this month and where I am now no Casino's fortunately.

[Guest]

Sam, read your own posts. You are totally deserving of almost every name you were called.

As an Engineer, the NOR manual should be duck soup for you. It is even written in Eng terminology.

I don't know how much you know about the history of Bac or how to play it But

The manual you criticize is the first and only winning Baccarat approach in the 400 years since the inception of Baccarat. Everyone else knows that. Who are you to criticize?

THAT is why you got everyone's goat.

It is written in plain English to the intelligence level of a 12 year old.

So please keep your complaints to yourself and study and learn before you speak.

[Ice Cool Sam]

Dear Ellis,

I am aiming for 3+ (max 5+) and you are saying 20+ from play 3. 20+ would mean 4 visits to the casino for me. So if I can achieve such a rate that means I will save 3 days of not going to casino and exposing myself to danger. (I look at the casino as a war zone. the less I have to visit and the earlier I am out the less chances of being shot in the head by the boss pit. That's how I see it anyway.)

Obviously this is because I currently have no Idea of NOR+ or U1D2 (I don't even know what is stands for.)

I have decided to read through the NOR forum for the next 10 days and see what I can understand. I will write all my unanswered questions in a thread and hopefully by end of January I will be able to at least understand the basics and principles of NOR.

But if you get a chance and just explain how to get 5+ I would be grateful because as soon as I hit 5+ I will be running out of the casino as fast as I can.

[Guest]

Dear Ellis,

I am aiming for 3+ (max 5+) and you are saying 20+ from play 3. 20+ would mean 4 visits to the casino for me. So if I can achieve such a rate that means I will save 3 days of not going to casino and exposing myself to danger. (I look at the casino as a war zone. the less I have to visit and the earlier I am out the less chances of being shot in the head by the boss pit. That's how I see it anyway.)

Obviously this is because I currently have no Idea of NOR+ or U1D2 (I don't even know what is stands for.)

I have decided to read through the NOR forum for the next 10 days and see what I can understand. I will write all my unanswered questions in a thread and hopefully by end of January I will be able to at least understand the basics and principles of NOR.

But if you get a chance and just explain how to get 5+ I would be grateful because as soon as I hit 5+ I will be running out of the casino as fast as I can.

B 1143312131

B 3241334

P 141111143111

P 121243

= +20 @ play 43: OTB4L Mode 3 U1D2

Sam, as you study you will learn that the best way to win at Baccarat is to play opportunities. This means you don't set any goals before seeing what you are up against on a given day. Some days you find NO good biases. Fine, go home. Other days you find great opportunities. You MUST play the good opportunities to make up for the days you have no opportunities. That's all part of playing to win. That is all part of what we teach you.

The shoe you posted is a golden OTB4L opportunity. You keep winning W/O a hitch whatsoever. +20 is our goal for NOR+ if the shoe stays good to that point. Yours did. So OK, you are up + 20 for that shoe color. When that shoe color comes up again, you try it again starting out the same way - OTB4L because that is what beat that shoe all to hell last time. See that? You might very well be headed for a +100 day.

Now tomorrow you may go to the same casino at the same time of day and see no playable biases. THAT is the time for caution. Don't even risk playing for +3. That would be stupid. Go home! The day after that might be another +100 day or it might be another don't play day. You never know until you get there and see first hand what you are up against.

Don't be making rules for yourself - you have no clue. Let us make the rules so you can utilize our experience. That is why we have stop wins and stop losses and captures. That is what you are paying us for.

There is such a thing as too much caution. I seldom come up against that. I'm usually fighting against too little caution with most of our beginners.

But I know from experience that the rules you have bestowed on yourself would leave you with no chance of winning whatsoever.

Casinos are very smart. They try there darndest to close all vulnerabilities. THAT is their job. But they all have vulnerabilities some of the time. Our job is to hit those vulnerabilities when and where they occur as hard as we can - to make up for the times they have no vulnerabilities.

Your rules have you playing the same way every time paying no attention to their vulnerabilities. That is the mark of a pure amateur. We are professionals here. Soon you'll be one too. IF you let us teach you how to play.

It isn't just about learning systems. That is the easy part. You need to learn about casinos too.

Right now you want to be learning what an S40 shoe looks like; what an OTB4L shoe looks like; what an F shoe looks like:

So that you can recognize opportunities on tote boards

So you know when to play, where to play and what to play and how much to play for.

The FIRST part of becomming a professional is to start thinking like a professional.

Look, you paid us hard earned money for US to teach YOU how to play because you haven't a clue.

Yet you come in here trying to teach us.

We find that comical to say the least.

Now that we've all had our fun, lets get down to business. Next time I hear from you I want you to be able to recognize shoe types and be able to play S40, OTB4L and F fluently. If you have any questions along the way we'll be happy to answer them.

But that shoe you posted is what we call a "gift" shoe. Likely we would already know what system to play because that is the way that shoe color has been playing. If we weren't there to see it we might need to look at a player's score card. Thankfully, unlike BJ, Baccarat is a friendly game.

But that is the way any member here would have played that shoe.

So the first thing you might try is to duplicate my play of that simple shoe until you can arrive at the same score at the same place. OTB4L is simple. Look it up. Play opposite the play before last.

U1D2 means bet up 1 when you lose and down 2 when you win except don't go below one. Mode 3 means go OTR (on the run) after losing 3 bets iar (in a row) But in your shoe OTB4L hits +20 W/O ever losing 3 bets iar.

But It would have been pure stupid in this case to go home at +3. We must jump on opportunity when we see it. Tomorrow might be a -6 day.

[Guest]

Oh, except I bet Oz would have gone to U1D1 and probably hit about +30.

Oz, as a fellow mate, would you please tell Sam here that we have +3 days and even -6 days but it's not to bright to go home with +3 in a +30 shoe.

I don't think Dave here realized that there are such things as +20 and +30 shoes and +100 days. They tend to offset -3 days which we all also have.

Thanks

[ECD]

Sam, for what its worth, there is a wealth of information in Ellis' post. If you are serious about being successful long term, I STRONGLY suggest you read it carefully, follow his directions and THINK before reacting with yet another negative and whinning post.

B 1143312131

B 3241334

P 141111143111

P 121243

= +20 @ play 43: OTB4L Mode 3 U1D2

Sam, as you study you will learn that the best way to win at Baccarat is to play opportunities. This means you don't set any goals before seeing what you are up against on a given day. Some days you find NO good biases. Fine, go home. Other days you find great opportunities. You MUST play the good opportunities to make up for the days you have no opportunities. That's all part of playing to win. That is all part of what we teach you.

The shoe you posted is a golden OTB4L opportunity. You keep winning W/O a hitch whatsoever. +20 is our goal for NOR+ if the shoe stays good to that point. Yours did. So OK, you are up + 20 for that shoe color. When that shoe color comes up again, you try it again starting out the same way - OTB4L because that is what beat that shoe all to hell last time. See that? You might very well be headed for a +100 day.

Now tomorrow you may go to the same casino at the same time of day and see no playable biases. THAT is the time for caution. Don't even risk playing for +3. That would be stupid. Go home! The day after that might be another +100 day or it might be another don't play day. You never know until you get there and see first hand what you are up against.

Don't be making rules for yourself - you have no clue. Let us make the rules so you can utilize our experience. That is why we have stop wins and stop losses and captures. That is what you are paying us for.

There is such a thing as too much caution. I seldom come up against that. I'm usually fighting against too little caution with most of our beginners.

But I know from experience that the rules you have bestowed on yourself would leave you with no chance of winning whatsoever.

Casinos are very smart. They try there darndest to close all vulnerabilities. THAT is their job. But they all have vulnerabilities some of the time. Our job is to hit those vulnerabilities when and where they occur as hard as we can - to make up for the times they have no vulnerabilities.

Your rules have you playing the same way every time paying no attention to their vulnerabilities. That is the mark of a pure amateur. We are professionals here. Soon you'll be one too. IF you let us teach you how to play.

It isn't just about learning systems. That is the easy part. You need to learn about casinos too.

Right now you want to be learning what an S40 shoe looks like; what an OTB4L shoe looks like; what an F shoe looks like:

So that you can recognize opportunities on tote boards

So you know when to play, where to play and what to play and how much to play for.

The FIRST part of becomming a professional is to start thinking like a professional.

Look, you paid us hard earned money for US to teach YOU how to play because you haven't a clue.

Yet you come in here trying to teach us.

We find that comical to say the least.

Now that we've all had our fun, lets get down to business. Next time I hear from you I want you to be able to recognize shoe types and be able to play S40, OTB4L and F fluently. If you have any questions along the way we'll be happy to answer them.

But that shoe you posted is what we call a "gift" shoe. Likely we would already know what system to play because that is the way that shoe color has been playing. If we weren't there to see it we might need to look at a player's score card. Thankfully, unlike BJ, Baccarat is a friendly game.

But that is the way any member here would have played that shoe.

So the first thing you might try is to duplicate my play of that simple shoe until you can arrive at the same score at the same place. OTB4L is simple. Look it up. Play opposite the play before last.

U1D2 means bet up 1 when you lose and down 2 when you win except don't go below zero. Mode 3 means go OTR (on the run) after losing 3 bets iar (in a row) But in your shoe OTB4L hits +20 W/O ever losing 3 bets iar.

But It would have been pure stupid in this case to go home at +3. We must jump on opportunity when we see it. Tomorrow might be a -6 day.

[LOU30]

Hi Sam,

Do you have your results for this shoe and if you played any system what one was it?Just out of interest to compare games,even if you start this shoe late OTB4L beats this shoe no problem.(by the way I scored +26)

Hi Kramden

I just realized that you had written this thread for me.

First of all thank you for being kind enough and not just judging a book by it's cover.

I amazed all sorts of things people are calling me simply because I am complaining about the Manual not being clear and being difficult to get your head around this forum. I have anger management issues, I am retarded, I whine a lot and ...

But anyway thanks for your help.

Currently I have no access to any casino's but this is a shoe I have from 15th December 2013. Darwin Casino in Australia. Round 7 pm. the play had started when I got to the table.

BC VERSION

B 1143312131

B 3241334

P 141111143111

P 121243

I will bring both the long version as well with ties. (I know that NOR doesn't believe in ties, nor do I but this just for you to see the whole shoe).

B P B B B B P P P B B B T P B B P B B B P

B T B T B P P B B T B B P B B B P P P B B B T T B

P B B B B P B P B P B B B T B P P P T B P B

P B B P B B P P P P B T B B

My goal is to win 3 to 5 units using a 20 unit bankroll. That will be my ultimate goal with real money.

Regards

[kramden]

Hi Sam,

It appears that everything has been said already to explain the shoe to you.

My simple advice:

1. Study that manual an for now just focus on OT4BL shoes so you can turn on a lightbulb as to what everyone is talking about.

2. Figure out the different places you can start the shoe and what kind of results you would have gotten. For ex, if you waited to see more hands unwind, you could have started at hand 9 and still done very well with straight OT4BL. (

3. Then move onto the other shoe types.

4. Master what the other shoe types look like on sight. You should keep practicing this until you CLEARLY see how much of a GIFT the first half of this shoe is!

5. Make a list of things to keep in mind while playing because most shoes change. For ex, if you won a bunch of units in the beginning of the shoe, mentally you might want to tell yourself that you should get more cautious. Maybe stop and reevaluate after your next 2 losses in a row. Protect your profit!! Also covered in the manual.

6. Keep a POSITIVE attitude and dont rush things. Your goal is to get to a point that you could have net betted a large section of this shoe for even greater exploits. Or at least see where you could have increased your profits. What I am saying is that you have a looonnnnnnnnngggggggggg way to go.Dont rush! Savor your time in school. The casinos arent going anywhere.

Now, hit up the forum with your next question after you studied some more.

[ECD]

Oh, except I bet Oz would have gone to U1D1 and probably hit about +30.

Oz, as a fellow mate, would you please tell Sam here that we have +3 days and even -6 days but it's not to bright to go home with +3 in a +30 shoe.

I don't think Dave here realized that there are such things as +20 and +30 shoes and +100 days. They tend to offset -3 days which we all also have.

Thanks

Hi Ellis...

Do you remember my reaction after my first visit to the Sydney Casino?...LOL...My exuberance must have made me sound like a hell of a cocky "NEWBIE"

I spotted a near perfect OTB4L shoe start first up and hit +55 in my first shoe...I was thinking..."This is TOO easy"

I didn't have a single losing shoe that night....I'd just wander through the tables like some poor lost soul (scorecard in hand...eyes wide open like saucers) until I found another really biased table and then I'd hit it LOL...I think my exact words were "Like taking candy from a baby" LOL

I came back to earth soon enough and learned (the hard way) that you do take need to take advantage of those really good nights/days and learn to walk away if things aren't going well....But the STOP/LOSS easily takes care of that issue.

I was a bit "gun-ho" in those early days and it's kinda embarrassing when I look back...but thanks to the guidance (read patience...LOL) of you and Norm and Kevin ...Way2fast and others I got through the bumps to the point now where my biggest concern nowadays is the other players jabbering in my ear and trying to follow my wagering system...the dealer trying to be way too pleasant (which part of "I don't want to be your best friend...I just want to take your money" don't they understand?" LOL

As you have pointed out...I took longer than some to really grasp NOR...but a lot of that was, I think, because of my naturally conservative nature...I wanted to be certain that I had everything down pat before I even walked into the Casino.

I must have played over 500 shoes online before that fateful day. At least 200 of those shoes I played using all 4 systems (yes ...I said 4...DUH) coz I treated F2 and F3 as two different systems because it took a while for me to grasp the concept. My graph books were a kaleidoscope of colours from the different systems...But it taught me to recognise the best system with barely a glance at the Tote Board

I played 1234...U1D2...U1D2m2 ...U1D1...U1D1m2 until I was dreaming about NOR...LOL

Goodness knows how many hours I put in...and even then...I made 2 trips to the Casino filing out dozens of scorecards for me to revise when I got home

By the time I hit the Casino for real...I had done the research...I had done the work...I WAS READY.

But that was only the beginning...I still put in a few hours every night working on my play...I look at every shoe I have played (winning or losing) and ask the questions "Did I play this shoe the best it could be played?...What could I have done better?" ...and I still ask questions of the BTC Pros

The Casino can be beaten...but you gotta do the work...NOBODY ever said it was going to be easy

Oz

BTW...I don't sleep much...LOL