modnar Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I Joined BTC less tan a month ago.I made the most common mistake all rockies are doing, IMO.Got too excited with NOR,I started asking questions before even fully understanding the manual,trying to avoid those 23 tiresome forum pages. I got no answer. because there are a proper way to ask.Sure, I could complain filling this fórum with muddy waters.Instead, I realized that I am a NOR student. So What I am doing? STUDYING.Everyone should realice that if it was that easy, any monkey could do it. What would happen then? If we all win, the casinos would close the game or change the rules like they did with BJ after Thorp disclose his basic strategy in the 60s.We need the 99% losers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I Joined BTC less tan a month ago.I made the most common mistake all rockies are doing, IMO.Got too excited with NOR,I started asking questions before even fully understanding the manual,trying to avoid those 23 tiresome forum pages. I got no answer. because there are a proper way to ask.Sure, I could complain filling this fórum with muddy waters.Instead, I realized that I am a NOR student. So What I am doing? STUDYING.Everyone should realice that if it was that easy, any monkey could do it. What would happen then? If we all win, the casinos would close the game or change the rules like they did with BJ after Thorp disclose his basic strategy in the 60s.We need the 99% losersAn excellent analogy. Thorp solved the then existing BJ game. So the casinos changed the game. Multi deck BJ with a cut off card cannot be beat by card counting. Single deck they only deal 2 hands, 3 if you are playing head to head. Card counting is useless in such a game.Thorp's Basic Strategy actually beats random cards to the tune of 6%. So the casinos figured out a way with the card pickup to assure the cards are NOT random. As a result Basic Strategy / card counting has not produced a single winning BJ player in 20 years. Kenny Uston? He was barred from Vegas so he played AC where card counting was legal. I was killing AC and played with Kenny many times. He couldn't win a single shoe. So he quit the game entirely and drank himself to death. They say Uston won his lawsuit against Vegas after his death. I don't buy that. True Vegas cannot bar you for card counting. But they can bar you for any other reason - such as winning. I don't call that a win.Today Vegas actually helps promote card counting. They even sell card counting books in the casino gift shops. This is because they know first hand that card counters cannot win. They like to attract the thousands of card counters. They are good for business. What they are afraid of is real players, like Don Johnson and, well, like me. I'm barred from BJ just about everywhere.I don't know of a single player that has ever been barred for winning at Baccarat. At least we've got THAT going for us. I've been threatened several times but never actually barred from Baccarat. How do they threaten you? Well like Horseshoe, Tunica. One morning the pit boss said to me in confidence: Mr Davis, we know who you are. You have just won 28 shoes in a row at this same table on 4 different shifts. Don't you think it is about time you picked on some other casino?"What was I playing? Basic S40. The same system I just told you exactly how to play. The first question I got was: What are the rules? Jesus H! I just gave you the rules.So OK fine. I'll put the rules in their own thread. This time, pay attention. I get tired of writing the same damn thing over and over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipecub Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I think that to study the NOR materials and apply them in a coherent manner is the toughest job for newbies even seasoned players get stuck every now and then looking at the forum.I wish I have a few thousand bucks to burn at the live tables just to gain some experience and practice...but for most people even 1k initial loss is too much feeling demoralised and broke.,people just give up ..how many of us have pro players looking over our shoulders guiding us when we just starting,I guess most of us just go down playing solo in the casino... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarrom Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I guess it's my turn to chime in on something...I joined BTC and learned NOR about a year ago and stopped playing after a few months because it wasn't producing the results I had anticipated. I came back on a little over a month ago because I knew the game was beatable and I want very much to become one of the few who can beat the game.My approach this time around was different from the first. I came back in very teachable. I read through the entire NOR forum, played through hundreds of mock shoes and started incorporating stop losses on my plays just as Ellis had taught. I'm guilty to have not done these things before because NOR itself is extremely simple and I thought I was smart enough to just absorb it on a couple of reads. Thank goodness I understand the importance of a high teachability index and I realized how stupid I really am... Long story short, not that I've been crushing the casinos, but in the couple of weeks I've been back playing again, I'm up almost 100 units in my play. I never had results like this in the past. Here are some of the things I've changed that you may benefit from:1) I'm now officially looking for the strongest bias I can find when table searching. For me, this piece also contains an element of shoe penetration meaning I would rather jump into a shoe that's been played deeper, with a strong bias, than a new shoe with 2/3 sets of events and a picture perfect bias. 2) I use all the recommended money management recommendations from the NOR manual. Some of us on this forum are trying to recreate our targets, stop losses etc... Why would we bother doing that when it's all been laid out so well for us? 3) I'm through trying to learn all the different methods of play and employing them all. If you want to be a master, then you must master the basics. I'm committing my time to master NOR first before moving forward and trying to learn something else. Is there an opportunity cost associated with taking this route seeing as newer systems may create a higher PA? Only so for a short term thinker. Consider that Ellis crushed baccarat with systems far simpler than NOR. BTW, my definition of NOR mastery is not the absorption of it's concepts - I'm looking for both statistical significance in my number of shoes played and decisions made, PA and lastly, the number of mistakes I make in play and system selection.4) I began searching for my own answers. Ellis has been gracious enough to answer some of the questions I do have, but I've realized now that I get far more benefit going through the forum trying to find the answer for myself. By reading old posts, questions etc... you are getting exposed to answers to questions you didn't even know you had. For me, this has created a stronger depth of knowledge and is critical for people to really fully grasp NOR and it's application. If anybody wants to learn how to play baccarat, I am convinced 100% that it can be done. I don't think we'll only win at the game, I think we will crush it! The question now becomes how many people are willing to do the work? Are they willing to do whatever it takes? To study and practice and really become a student of the game? Or will most people approach the game with the same sort of mentality they bring to their daily jobs? The mentality of fear, ungratefulness and entitlement. The latter are the main ingredients to not only a losing player in game of baccarat, but a loser in life.If you want it - go for it! Simple as that.I think that to study the NOR materials and apply them in a coherent manner is the toughest job for newbies even seasoned players get stuck every now and then looking at the forum.I wish I have a few thousand bucks to burn at the live tables just to gain some experience and practice...but for most people even 1k initial loss is too much feeling demoralised and broke.,people just give up ..how many of us have pro players looking over our shoulders guiding us when we just starting,I guess most of us just go down playing solo in the casino... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users bluetri Posted March 12, 2014 Users Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Hear hear, Sarrom! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaccDJ126 Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Nicely said sarrom but a more detailed manual with better explanations and shoe examples would help and be less stressful for Ellis...i would think by now Ellis and Keith whenever he is here would be so tired of answering the same questions that they would say hey maybe we should update our manual thats 3 years old and make it easier for our students (customers) to learn...just my 2 cents...if anyone is in the philly/south jersey area there are 3-4 of us that are putting a NOR/4D group together and are meeting next week...send me a message if you would like to know our secret undisclosed location (Burger King lol) and lets brainstorm share views and understand better!!!! Together we can be 1%ersMike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipecub Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Wish I could join you guys but I do not live in the States Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOU30 Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 We call that going through THE MILL, it basically means you must experience it for yourself!Sarrom like myself has just completed his first 12 months of studying and I could not agree with him more,that is exactly the same approach I took and now we are both winning players...The whole aim of this forum is to transform YOU from a losing playing/gambler into a winning/thinking player,I am not saying we are there yet their is still a lot for us to learn BUT we are at least grinding THE MILL...There are NO short cuts you must put in your study time!!!They say "Give a man a fish you feed him for a day,teach him how to fish you feed him for life".All new members seem to be over keen to jump straight in or want Ellis to hand feed them with all the answers at once!Which by the way he could easily do and it would make his life so much easier BUT by forcing us to search the forum for the all the answers,HE is teaching us HOW TO FISH for our selves. Read the Forum it's all here...We'll said Sarrom.Regards Lou.I guess it's my turn to chime in on something...I joined BTC and learned NOR about a year ago and stopped playing after a few months because it wasn't producing the results I had anticipated. I came back on a little over a month ago because I knew the game was beatable and I want very much to become one of the few who can beat the game.My approach this time around was different from the first. I came back in very teachable. I read through the entire NOR forum, played through hundreds of mock shoes and started incorporating stop losses on my plays just as Ellis had taught. I'm guilty to have not done these things before because NOR itself is extremely simple and I thought I was smart enough to just absorb it on a couple of reads. Thank goodness I understand the importance of a high teachability index and I realized how stupid I really am... Long story short, not that I've been crushing the casinos, but in the couple of weeks I've been back playing again, I'm up almost 100 units in my play. I never had results like this in the past. Here are some of the things I've changed that you may benefit from:1) I'm now officially looking for the strongest bias I can find when table searching. For me, this piece also contains an element of shoe penetration meaning I would rather jump into a shoe that's been played deeper, with a strong bias, than a new shoe with 2/3 sets of events and a picture perfect bias. 2) I use all the recommended money management recommendations from the NOR manual. Some of us on this forum are trying to recreate our targets, stop losses etc... Why would we bother doing that when it's all been laid out so well for us? 3) I'm through trying to learn all the different methods of play and employing them all. If you want to be a master, then you must master the basics. I'm committing my time to master NOR first before moving forward and trying to learn something else. Is there an opportunity cost associated with taking this route seeing as newer systems may create a higher PA? Only so for a short term thinker. Consider that Ellis crushed baccarat with systems far simpler than NOR. BTW, my definition of NOR mastery is not the absorption of it's concepts - I'm looking for both statistical significance in my number of shoes played and decisions made, PA and lastly, the number of mistakes I make in play and system selection.4) I began searching for my own answers. Ellis has been gracious enough to answer some of the questions I do have, but I've realized now that I get far more benefit going through the forum trying to find the answer for myself. By reading old posts, questions etc... you are getting exposed to answers to questions you didn't even know you had. For me, this has created a stronger depth of knowledge and is critical for people to really fully grasp NOR and it's application. If anybody wants to learn how to play baccarat, I am convinced 100% that it can be done. I don't think we'll only win at the game, I think we will crush it! The question now becomes how many people are willing to do the work? Are they willing to do whatever it takes? To study and practice and really become a student of the game? Or will most people approach the game with the same sort of mentality they bring to their daily jobs? The mentality of fear, ungratefulness and entitlement. The latter are the main ingredients to not only a losing player in game of baccarat, but a loser in life.If you want it - go for it! Simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipecub Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Glad you guys seeing the light at the end of tunnel after a year, hope I do too by end of 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modnar Posted March 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 Glad you guys seeing the light at the end of tunnel after a year, hope I do too by end of 2014I joined BTC in feb 14, The key is open your eyes and think. BTW where are you from and what are your local casino rules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbpfws Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Nicely said sarrom but a more detailed manual with better explanations and shoe examples would help and be less stressful for Ellis...i would think by now Ellis and Keith whenever he is here would be so tired of answering the same questions that they would say hey maybe we should update our manual thats 3 years old and make it easier for our students (customers) to learn...just my 2 cents...if anyone is in the philly/south jersey area there are 3-4 of us that are putting a NOR/4D group together and are meeting next week...send me a message if you would like to know our secret undisclosed location (Burger King lol) and lets brainstorm share views and understand better!!!! Together we can be 1%ersMikeI could not agree more with you BaccDj, yes, a much more detail manual will save time for both members and Ellis, himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sport Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Guys,believe me,if we had a separate thread of just pre played shoes with possible explanations from every casino in the usa and abroad.This info would eventually clear up much of the confusion and many of the questions.I review shoes from 10yrs ago that i played.Your future in bac is in the history of played shoes.This is just my 2 cents.thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus One Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 are you guys looking at my old post I had a shoe with explanation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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