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cookie0410

Ellis

is there going to be a update to this system?

As it stands the mechanical version we have so far isn't successful in making money.

I feel we all have trust in you and this forum to make this a success.

I am just a newbie to this baccarat game so finding it hard to come up with any improvements myself.

As way2fast mentioned it can lose to 1,2 and 3's at different times.

If it was just the 3's a progression would quickly solve this.

I look forward to any updates.

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Ellis

is there going to be a update to this system?

As it stands the mechanical version we have so far isn't successful in making money.

I feel we all have trust in you and this forum to make this a success.

I am just a newbie to this baccarat game so finding it hard to come up with any improvements myself.

As way2fast mentioned it can lose to 1,2 and 3's at different times.

If it was just the 3's a progression would quickly solve this.

I look forward to any updates.

Yes of course! Read my post on the U2Hi thread. We already know we need to let SAP determine the culprit by identifying the lest common event in the shoe at hand. That way we win virtually every shoe and a +6 avg becomes highly realistic.

We haven't released final rules yet only the initial tester rules.

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  • 2 weeks later...
kit walker

Ellis, do you have any further updates for the system? Where are we going from here? Do you have a time frame or schedule on when the system will be ready?

You mentioned in the public forum that a tester had a potential set of rules that seemed successful. Is that still showing promise?

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A PM I received today:

Hi Ellis

Hope you are well

Just wanted to PM you on your last post. I am far from a expert on baccarat but in the business world have been successful and from day one joining the forum (around 4-5 months ago) been happy to invest in you and this forum. i have already done at least 8 hours private training with Steve so i know i am learning from some of the best. I have 100 percent trust in you as what you have done up to now is special.

I feel that NOR is awesome and when mastered is in some way always going to be a success, my feedback being a new player i have struggled to see what and when to play so my lack of experience is my let down right now.

MDB is awesome and have had some success with this system, my main issue is the casinos i play in are not preshuffled so i am some what inconsistent. some days i lose allot of shoes and other days i have good success.

Online the same feedback. If i could pick up and quit work i would move to Vegas and just play MDB lol.

2hi i honestly believe this will be the one. Your last post mentioned using OR and a page from MDB with the triggers. I honestly feel this is the way to go. Take the strengths of what we already no and what gives us a advantage and put it together. MDB has a very special element with putting progressions on different triggers and we all no OR gives us a idea where the shoe is at. This doesn't stop it being mechanical. + count tells us what to do and - count tells us what to do. This to me is mechanical.

for me i am not looking for a system to win 95 percent shoes (this would be great and preferred ) but for me no need.

I have had some recent success playing with a even stop loss and stop win amount, for example 5 and 5.

I use a progression within my shoes that has caused me to be a winner everyday for the last 14 days i have played.

I have been playing MDB. I have been playing 25 dollar units. If i lose a shoe i use a U1D2 progression for each shoe so even if i win 50 percent of my shoes i am a winner ( i know this isn't everyone's choice on how to play but i want to come home from the casino with money and i play smaller units to start so i can use this way of playing )

So if i lose the first two shoes i play i will now be up to 75 dollar unit and if i win that third shoe i go back two unit size to 25.

This could be aggressive to some but even on a bad day i am coming home with money.

Imagine a 2hi system that wins 70 - 80 percent of shoes playing with a stop win and loss. I will be one of your millionaire players in the next year if you come up with this system. Not that you need any advice from me but use the tools we already have to help with this system. The last post you made tells me you are on the right track.

Thanks for reading and take care Ellis

Hi cookie, thanks for the encouragement. I'm working on it all day every day very closely with one of my most trusted testers.

But it can't be rushed. Last time Keith and Steve were announcing a seminar before I was ready. I don't want to make the same mistake twice.

I've gone back to the OvT base - the same one I taught Oz, who is up some 2 million.

It is a less troublesome base because the culprit is always 2 plays longer than a PvB base and one play longer than an OvR base.

I'm retaining the 234 prog because it takes greater advantage of long runs. And I'm retaining our shoe start strategy.

So really the only change is I have dropped lo side net betting and changed bases.

To demonstrate to ourselves that the system can withstand very strong biases, we tested on a strong F shoe that was 85% Player.

We scored +8 and that was our worst test shoe. Some went into the 20s.

It looks like we will be recommending a +10 goal.

We haven't had any losing test shoes as yet but we are trying to discover its weakness - every system has one.

Sorry I haven't been posting much but I can either work on the U2Hi or the forum but not both.

Rather than take the time to post, I think I'll just go ahead and post your PM and my reply.

I'm anxious to get back to testing. Hope to be able to post new rules in a matter of days.

But we want to be sure this time. Now, back to work!

BTW, we are testing with actual casino shoes this time rather than RG shoes.

Testing the prior rules with RG shoes was our big mistake.

We ended up with a system that beat RGs but nothing else.

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cookie0410

Ellis thank you so much for your reply. I am truly happy to wait while you are going through the correct testing for this to be a successful system for all.

I look forward to your update and to hopefully play and give you some succesful feedback on the new rules.

Thanks again

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Here's a PM that was unsendable

Hi Ellis

can you tell me how big disparity can handle 2hi prog in net betting ?

and whats best way to use it ?

i heard that OZ in his system use 2hi to net bet and if he lose progession he just bet on side that is stronger ?

Right, that is what I will be teaching on the 2Hi forum.

The idea is to make disparity work FOR you instead of against you.

Disparity becomes a gift.

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You know, design is not a 9 to 5 occupation.

You have to have inspiration. Mine usually come in the middle of the night.

It's been that way for me for 50 years, when I first started designing for major corporations.

Anyway, last night, in the middle of the night, an inspiration was so strong it woke me up and I had to try it right then.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we will play this way but I'm also saying we just might.

This is just a progress report but some of you might want to toy with this idea.

This idea or inspiration applies to Net Betting TB4L vs OTB4L with a 234 progression.

The idea is this: A winning 4 entry is a sign of weakness.

Therefore a winng 4 entry should go to 0 instead of 2.

And resume at 2 after either a winning 0 or 3 losing 0s in a row.

So I tried a shoe.

Played with our normal OvT net betting 234 this shoe ended at +5 with a worst position of -8.

But when you apply the above winning 4 entry rule,

Ha, our score goes to +31 with a worst position of -3.

That is too huge an improvement to be a total fluke.

So we need to experiment with more shoes.

I'll see if I can attach my work sheet so you guys can see what I'm doing.

Oh, I should warn you that this rule incurs an occassional 3 bet.

But who cares if it can achieve a +30 on a +5 shoe.

post-8-14500262616718_thumb.jpg

Whoops, I see I added the score wrong at play 22

Well WTF it was the middle of the night.

So I think I actually scored +32.

I'm not saying we can do this well every shoe.

But a simple mechanical weakness rule

that changes a shoe from +5 to +32

It's got to be a giant step in the right direction.

We gotta take a hard look at it.

Whoops, I see that the blue prog forgot to go to 0 after a winning 4.

Look at play 27

Fix that and I think it hits +40!

NOW you're playing the game!

Edited by Ellis
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Do we still hit on the long runs as before?

Yes, absolutely, except now we are on all long runs with 2 bets instead of 1 bets.

And that includes all three run types whether they be ST, ZZ, or TT

And interestingly the guys playing on line are telling me they are seeing too many long runs.

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Yes, absolutely, except now we are on all long runs with 2 bets instead of 1 bets.

And that includes all three run types whether they be ST, ZZ, or TT

And interestingly the guys playing on line are telling me they are seeing too many long runs.

Ellis, can you explain how you played the long streak in this shoe? You said to stop the side after a 4 wins until the 0 bet wins or for three bets. On the long run you did not re-start the OTBL side after three bets.

Also, have you charted what events this method loses to? Based on this shoe, it appears it loses to 3ZZ's and can lose to some 2iar's (but can also win big on 2s than follow a single 1). Also, on the long streaks it doesn't win much (break even on the 9iar if played by the rules; and only +1 on a 7ZZ). But at least it is not losing to these events. I think the only way to judge a system is to know exactly what it will win or lose on each event type.

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i think if you are talking about the straight run at the top of the 3rd column, that it comes after a 4loss, not a 4 win...so normal streak rule applies there.

Starting with the same beginning of this shoe I believe that a BPBBPPPPP gets you to a -10. Please check that. Also, i believe you might have to be wrong footed going into it for it to happen. It looks like a ZZ into a 5 straight is a weakness also. Im sure some of the math geeks can calculate the frequency :)

Edited by Rich333
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i think if you are talking about the straight run at the top of the 3rd column, that it comes after a 4loss, not a 4 win...so normal streak rule applies there.

Starting with the same beginning of this shoe I believe that a BPBBPPPPP gets you to a -10. Please check that. Also, i believe you might have to be wrong footed going into it for it to happen. It looks like a ZZ into a 5 straight is a weakness also. Im sure some of the math geeks can calculate the frequency :)

Thanks Rich. Obviously it IS a 4 loss, not win. Don't know what I was thinking!

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KI have tried playing the new rules on a handful of shoes. Not a lot, but enough to see how the method performs against various events.

I would say if you are going to play this method you need to play with a big stop loss and win goal, as there is a high level of volatility. If playing with a big stop loss, you will probably also not be playing large units. Playing large units I want to bet less frequently, win a higher percentage of bets made and play with a tight stop loss. This method is probably not well suited for my objectives. How can I play with a 5 unit stop loss when this method can lose as many as 5 units to a 2iar? It will not lose 5 units to every 2iar -- just those 2's that follow another 2 or follow a 4. It can actually win up to 4 units on a 2 if it is the third 2iar (222). Of course, that is after it lost 5 units to that second 2. Wow, that's a lot of up and down with large units! There is similar volatility with 3's, 4's and 5's as well as with the ZZ runs.

Hopefully some players will be able to post some shoes so we can evaluate whether there are some improvements to be made.

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Maybe the +5 version of the 2hi, that Ellis mentioned for this shoe would be better for conservative betters. I figured that after the practice shoe the win/loss would have to change. Anytime you can hit+30 in the third column...your +5/-5 goal has left the building. I hope the testers are working it out.

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It's late here but I'll post the shoe played correctly in the morning.

John Bellus is testing shoes full time and we are discussing results seveal times a day.

All of the items you guys are bringing up, we are bringing up also.

Right, this system, as is, is like having a tiger by the tail. It needs a lot of maneuverability.

I'm concerned about the 4 entry. I'm thinking there are times when we should drop it to get on runs quicker.

But the trigger for such a maneuver MUST be highly accurate.

You guys that think that MDB+ is too boring, ha, you won't have that problem with this system.

And guys that are worried about the occassional 3 bet - just make it a 2 bet.

way2fast, I'm curious to know if there is any difference in performance when playing your Vegas touch games as opposed to regular cards.

Yeah, results are good, but I think we are on the threshold of making this a killer system if we can get the 4 entry right - maybe the 3 entry as well.

What we've got to figure out is: under what conditions is the 4 entry most likely to lose???

One way would be a count of 4s vs 5+. But I'm hoping we can find a Quicker trigger.

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cookie0410

I played with the rules with 20 shoes playing a 10 unit stop loss and win loss.

I had 11 shoes hit my stop loss and 9 hit my 10 units.

Ellis how is your results coming on? I feel we are not to far away

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