# Just curious...

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This question has been asked in the past but I have a feeling that given the move away from Negative Progressions and Mechanical Systems on this site that an update wouldn't hurt.

How many BTC Players are winning on a regular basis?

How many are using Negative Progressions and for those who do...What is your highest bet in your progression?

Do you use a Loop per se or as a Positive Progression?

I could probably name most of you, but I'm still curious (and it could be a positive motivation for others to keep the old nose to the grindstone and you will get there)

As for me...I do fairly well...It's my living so it's kinda a necessity in order to keep "She who must be obeyed" in the luxury that she has become accustomed...LOL

I've gradually changed the way I play as I have become more attuned to the shoe. The further I progress...the more I realise how good Norm really was. He was way ahead of his time and so much of what I do now harks back to his "Follow The Shoe" System, which incidentally is on the Forum somewhere.

I generally start Flat Betting after a minimum of 4 events

I've increased my S/L to -4 to give me a little more room to move (For a while I didn't bother with a S/L because I know that logically over the long term that I am going to win much more than I lose...but logic doesn't help much when the cards turn against you)

My first target is to reach +5 Flat Betting and then I introduce the 1 2 Positive Loop (only make the 2 bet if you win the first bet)

At +10...I move to the 2 3 Positive Loop which is even safer

My target of +5 has two benefits for me...At the beginning of the shoe I will not under any circumstances allow myself to go backwards more than 4 units which means that worst scenario...I am exiting the shoe with +1...If I only get to +4 and my score returns to zero...I won't bet again...I exit the shoe. If I only get to +3...them my exit point (S/L) becomes -1 and so on. A fairly safe way to play. Once my score increases over +5...I become a little more flexible about how many units I will risk.

In the unlikely event that I lose my first two shoes of the day (hasn't happened for a long, long time)...I call it quits and walk away for the day no matter how far I've traveled to get to the Casino...It's called "DISCIPLINE" and if you want to play this game at a serious level, it is "THE" most important requirement you can aspire too. I've had guys say to me..."I hate leaving the shoe/casino with a loss" and I understand that fully...but take it from someone whose been there...you may get out of jail nine out of ten times but the tenth time will screw with your head for years.

Better stop now...I didn't mean for this to become a "War and Peace" effort (only the old F**ks on her will know what I'm talking about...LOL)

I'm betting that the success rate of players on this site has increased dramatically. That "Stats for Profit" available to members is a brilliant concept and way better than the only alternative that I know about on the net that I strongly suspect is RNG anyway despite their assurances.

Let's hear from you guys...The stage is yours...

Edited by ECD
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Good question Oz

For me I flat bet until I am up 10 units, then maybe play a 1/2 loop, no more IF the wins are coming easy (I track my Win / Loss sequence)

However I am now playing TIES quite successfully (thanks CT70), and so I do balance my Player / Banker bets with tie bets

It depends on the minimum table bet, but on a \$50 table the minimum tie bet is \$25 (50% of the minimum player/banker bet)

On a \$30 table and in stadium baccarat the minimum tie bet is only \$5 (15% of the player/banker bet)

So its a bit of mix and match depending on the table minimum

regards Pando

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Thanks for sharing Oz.  Beginners on the public forum can learn a lot from your post if they read it carefully.

On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 1:54 PM, ozscouser1 said:

How many are using Negative Progressions and for those who do...What is your highest bet in your progression?

In almost all situations I am not using a negative progression.  Will only use a NP after I have already hit my win target and even then only if the shoe goes into a highly exploitable bias of either repeats or opposites.  At which time I may choose to use a two-bet negative progression until I lose two in a row, at which time I exit the shoe.  That may be a 1,2 progression, or a 2,3 or even 3,4 depending how much I am up and how strong the bias is supported by shoe history.

On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 1:54 PM, ozscouser1 said:

Do you use a Loop per se or as a Positive Progression?

I use a version of the loop, but only as a positive progression.  I have modified the idea of "the loop" to allow for a lower slope, but also the ability to better capitalize on those common streaks where I win 4 or more out of 5 bets.

On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 1:54 PM, ozscouser1 said:

Generally I play with a 3-4 unit stop loss (when basing at 1 unit).  I do not consider it a "hard" stop, as I have found with experience there are certain situations where it is better to wait a few events and turn it into a break even or winning shoe.  So while most of the time I will stop, I retain the option to stay in the shoe in certain situations.  I don't recommend this for most players, as it is much safer to play to a hard stop.  It is rare for me to lose 4 bets in a row, so if it happens I either leave the shoe, or wait and re-evaluate with a disciplined approach.

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Over the last six months I have been doing well with Vin-Sap which I found to do well with the early part of the shoe which has been well documented for quick small unit win exits. Before this period I was playing a follow the shoe style which in some cases I would have to wait until well in to the shoe before a betting situation would arise and was looking to fill this type of void  which Vin-Sap has done.

What I am doing at the moment is trying to implement the two methods as my own style of the blend to fit where I play which has recently changed their card prep methods which in turn forces us to revaluate our game.

At the moment while I go through this transitional period my current S/L is – 4 units and I flat bet for the most part but utilize use a 1-2 loop when called for.

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I flat bet and will occasionally use a 1-2, (negative and positive) when I see the opportunity.  I continue to win consistently in small numbered units, per shoe.  What is important to me is at the end of the day, being in the + category.  Continuing to focus on short term setups.  Stop loss is -5 to realize I am not seeing the shoe clearly...so time to either wake up...or stop on that shoe.  It really gets my attention to the level it needs to be.

Edited by avion

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