Norm A

I know the Red Rock very well, it was my second home when I lived Vegas (only 10 min. away) I was there every day. All the dealers know me ask them if they remember me, (Norman Allen) I am sure they will, please say HI to them for me. I am the guy who is responsible for them lowering the maximum Dragon bet from $100 to $50 because I was hitting it to often, I got very good at knowing when it was coming, ask Shawn he will tell you all about it ( i think that is his name he is a very big guy and very nice) I played mostly in the High limit room. Please say Hi to Terry one of the shift managers also a nice guy. And if you ever get to the MGM they all know me there also, that was my other hangout. And don't get me wrong I was not calling you a liar about the 80 hands, just never saw it . NormA

OK, You and Ellis get them but not I. I guess it's just the way the ball bonuced . I missed the few that are out there. LOL NornA

We must be living on different planets. With over 5,000 live casino shoes played I have see shoes that had no ties although that is very rare, even those shoes did not go that long. I wonder if this was a live casino shoe or an online shoe, God only knows what they do on line.

WOW Is this correct 81 hands, I never seen a shoe go 81 hands??

Ellis what do you mean by "IF" you follow the switch back rule. Is there a another set of rules or a different way of playing F2 without the switch back ? that i missed. Norm

If you are at the casino now at 8am it is to early, most of the players come after lunch.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY ELLIS You could NET BET it. I just went to a birthday party yesterday for a friend of mine, he is 99 years old and in better shape then we are. Norm A

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HAPPY FATHER'S DAY to all you fathers Norm A

Hi, Al You could find the rules for the ADOT system at the Sub forum "ADOT systems" at "ADOT System - Inspired by Ellis" thread at post # 1 The ADOT system is just another one of dozens of systems on this forum, I would say that NOR is an improvement to all the systems on this forum, I don't use NOR and I am not that up on it, but from what I see on all the post is that it works well. I think NOR is more of a method rather then a system that tells you witch of the three basic systems you should be playing. My advise to you and any new member to BTC is do not start looking at all or some of the old systems at this time as they will just confuse and frustrate you to no end and waist a lot of time.. What you should concentrate on now is learning the three basic systems of play, they are System 40, F, and OT (OTB4L) but keep in mind that you can't play a shoe with just any one of the three by its self, you must use NOR to tell witch system to use. In time after you have played thousands of shoes you will gain the experience where you will learn how to read a shoe and know what system to use and when to switch systems and you will not need NOR. This took me over 4 years to learn and I am still learning. One more piece of advice, the most important thing to learn is DISCIPLINE if you don't have DISCIPLINE (knowing when to quit when winning or losing) it wont mater how good a player you are without DISCIPLINE you will lose !!! This was the most difficult thing for me to acquire, and I still fall off the wagon now and then. I wish I had a black chip for every time I heard a player say " just one more" or " I got a feeling" (including my self) Now the only time I get a feeling at the Bac. table is when I have to fart. I hope this helped. Norm A

The answer to your question all depends on what you mean by playing pro, if you are referring to playing for living, (witch I never did) I could tell you that every pro. player that I knew that played for I living were not very happy people. I don't know of any pro. on this forum that plays for a living. If you could quantify you question then we could go for there. Norm BTW what is your name ?

That is the best way to practice rather then a pre. filed in scorecard. Where did you play for your casino trip ? Norm

Great going, keep it up. The one and most important tip I could give you is PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. NORM

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Ellis here is a picture of the Roul table. With the payouts. I will try to re post in a larger size if i can. Norm

Hi Ellis First I don't know what you mean by "needing more help than that to open your film" ???? Are you referring to the attachment ? I did forget that NJ has the half bet rule when a 0 or 00 comes out on the even money bets only (not on all the out side bets) It has been 35 years since I have been to AC. MS or Vegas does not have this rule, I don't know about PA or CT . But keep in mind that you still have to contend with a 0 and a 00 where as with a single "0" wheel you have the same rule with only one zero. I remember about 35 years ago that Caesars in AC had a single zero wheel tucked away in a back room, the Min. bet then was $100, that was probable like $1,000 today. There is no 0,00,1 bet, perhaps you mean a 0,00,2 bet witch is called the Basket bet, witch pays 11 to 1 just like the 3 number street bet. BTW the worst bet you could make on the layout is the 5 number bet (0,00,1,2,3) witch is called the first line bet, it pays 6 to 1. All the other bet are proportionate to each other except this bet. Do the math you will see what I mean. Norm

Just not to confuse anyone columns are not R/B,O/E,H/L Columns are the 12 numbers that run the long way on the table there are 3 columns and each pays 2 to 1 it would be like playing the Doz. bets 1st Doz, 2ed Doz,& 3ed Doz, each pays 2 to 1 Norm PS If anyone is having a problem opening the attachment please let me know.

Hi Donald You are absolutely correct, playing on a double zero wheel is suicide no mater what system you use. BTW do you mean playing one or two columns out of three ( not lines) a line is a 6 number bet. Attached is a table layout showing the various bet and what they are called (note that in the US casinos they do not allow the adjacent column or dozen bets) Roulette was my first love, up to about 12 years ago I played Rou. for 30 years, before they replaced the wheels with the new type of wheels you see today. There was a time that I could play Rou. as Well as Ellis could plat BJ., but only on a single zero wheel game with the old type wheel . BTW: Most of the high class casinos on the strip in Vegas do have single zero wheels in the high limit rooms, but the min. bet is $100 or more. The only casino I know in Vegas is the MGM Grand, that has a single zero wheel with a min. bet of $25 and $50 on the weekends, they also use the "La Partage" rule witch is If the ball lands in zero, you only lose half of your wager, but you do not have the choice of leaving the bet as with the "En Prison" rule to get a free ride. This rule applies only to even money bets like Black and Red section, Odd and Even section, High and Low section. I hope this info helps some of you rou layout.docx Norm PS open the file with MS word.

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That's good playing, keep up the good work. The more you practice the better you will get. NormA

It is very, very important that when you practice with theses shoes you do it in the following manner : When you print out a shoe DO NOT LOOK AT IT cover it up with a piece of paper and start playing it by reveling one hand at a time. NO PEEKING AT THE NEXT HAND Anyone could win a shoe after the fact, when they see the whole shoe in advance. You need to play as though you were in the casino. ONE HAND AT A TIME. I great way to do this is to teem up with a partner and one partner feeds the shoe to the other one hand at a time. It could be done over the phone. PJ and I have done this several times. If you don't practice in this manner you are only kidding yourself. Also do not expect to get the same results in the casino as you get practicing at home. In the casino you will have a lot of distractions and pressure, and might be rushed to place you bet. It is a whole different ball game when you are playing a live game in the casino with money on the table. Even the best seasoned player will make mistakes in a live casino game. For the record in theses 60 shoes I won 48 shoes and lost 12 shoes My highest score was +60. In the 12 shoes that I lost I got out at my stop loss witch is -7 or -8. My average score over the 60 shoes was +10 unit per shoe. I never made a bet more then 4 units and very few 4 unit bets. I do not play the NOR system that is why you see the OT count on my scorecards, and for this reason I will not post my played shoes as I don't want to muddy the waters, as most of you are learning and playing NOR. NOR is a good way to play, stick with it and MASTER it. do not jump from one new system to another if they come along. All you need to do is MASTER one system no mater what that system is. It took me 5 years and over 5,000 live casino shoes ( living in Vegas for 3 years I played every day) to learn how to play the way I am playing now and I am still trying to MASTER it. When you think you mastered it don't get over confident because it will bite you in the ass. You must practice every day. NormA

I see at first I thought M 1 was a #1 supper model that you slept with, I did not sleep with ether one myself. I did not get the chance to be introduced to the M 1 as I was fighting fires that the low life's were starting in NYC, they would start fires in the 5 and 6 story tenement buildings so that they could get a better free place to live.

Same here, but what the hell is a M 1, did I miss something in life ?? maybe its not to late.

I wish that I did not feel so old, problem is that I do feel old , It gets harder & harder to keep going, remember we are the same age. With some of the same medical problems.

Hi Ellis The 60 Bac shoes and 20 Roul shoes were played over a 7 day trip, also keep in mind that about 25 of the Bac shoes were only played to half a shoe. Also at the MGM there are about 12 Bac tables, I would play at a table that had no players and play head to head and let the dealer open all the cards as though it was a MINI game. I try to avoid MIDI games where the other players are folding and taking forever to open the cards with there 2 spots, 3 spots bull shit and so on it drives me crazy. This weekend I am going to Biloxi for 3 days and will be playing at the MINI tables to see how they compare to the Vegas Roul shoes. No Roul on this trip no single "0" in Bilxi.