Norm A
-
Posts
434 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
1
Posts posted by Norm A
-
-
NormA (and everybody else),
I just went back and double checked the posted shoe and it was 80 hands. Once I plotted out the shoe that Shereevanest posted up, the discrepancy showed itself.
With that said, I have seen a few shoes that have gone over 80 hands. Probably not more than 3 or 4, but they are out there. Throw out a lot of natural hands with minimal ties and you've got a shoe running over 75 hands for sure.
MVS
OK, You and Ellis get them but not I. I guess it's just the way the ball bonuced .
I missed the few that are out there. LOL
NornA
-
Shit happens - probably very few ties. I've seen it lots of times - even 83-84.
We must be living on different planets.
With over 5,000 live casino shoes played I have see shoes that had no ties although that is very rare,
even those shoes did not go that long.
I wonder if this was a live casino shoe or an online shoe, God only knows what they do on line.
-
B229112114
P11315321
P4433211
P12214251121
And I need modes please. Thank you in advance.
WOW Is this correct 81 hands, I never seen a shoe go 81 hands??
-
Hmmm, the first 2 on B kills F2 if you follow the switch back rule.
U1D2M1? Are you saying Mode 1 or Mandatory 1?
In spite of the SS start, I saw no reason to abandon the standard NOR+ OTB4LM3 U1D2 starting at play 2, since it likes both 3s and 1's. An easy +20 with 2 4 bets.
Ellis what do you mean by "IF" you follow the switch back rule.
Is there a another set of rules or a different way of playing F2 without the switch back ? that i missed.
Norm
-
Nobody playing here !! ?
If you are at the casino now at 8am it is to early, most of the players come after lunch.
-
You know, I get screwed on this Father's Day thing every year because my birthday is June 17. Half the time Father's Day falls on my bithday but it's always the same weekend. I think some people think the two cancel out.
"It's sorta like betting the table min on both P and B to start a shoe." - E. Clifton Davis
HAPPY BIRTHDAY ELLIS
You could NET BET it.
I just went to a birthday party yesterday for a friend of mine, he is 99 years old and in better shape then we are.
Norm A
-
The NOR players should have access to the NOR for Roulette Forum. Can someone confirm it there and make a test post for me please.
In addition you guys can team up and join us at the Las Vegas Seminar I am certain you will find it very informative and learn some new twists to NOR even if you are an experienced player.
Regards
Keith
This is a Test Post
-
HAPPY FATHER'S DAY to all you fathers
Norm A
-
Hi Norm,
Several questions:
What is the ADOT System?
Is it an improvement to NOR system?
If so, how can I obtain it?
Al
Hi, Al
You could find the rules for the ADOT system at the Sub forum "ADOT systems" at "ADOT System - Inspired by Ellis" thread at post # 1
The ADOT system is just another one of dozens of systems on this forum,
I would say that NOR is an improvement to all the systems on this forum,
I don't use NOR and I am not that up on it, but from what I see on all the post is that it works well.
I think NOR is more of a method rather then a system that tells you witch of the three basic systems you should be playing.
My advise to you and any new member to BTC is do not start looking at all or some of the old systems at this time
as they will just confuse and frustrate you to no end and waist a lot of time..
What you should concentrate on now is learning the three basic systems of play, they are System 40, F, and OT (OTB4L)
but keep in mind that you can't play a shoe with just any one of the three by its self, you must use NOR to tell witch system to use.
In time after you have played thousands of shoes you will gain the experience where you will learn how to read a shoe
and know what system to use and when to switch systems and you will not need NOR.
This took me over 4 years to learn and I am still learning.
One more piece of advice, the most important thing to learn is DISCIPLINE if you don't have DISCIPLINE
(knowing when to quit when winning or losing) it wont mater how good a player you are without DISCIPLINE you will lose !!!
This was the most difficult thing for me to acquire, and I still fall off the wagon now and then.
I wish I had a black chip for every time I heard a player say " just one more" or " I got a feeling" (including my self)
Now the only time I get a feeling at the Bac. table is when I have to fart.
I hope this helped.
Norm A
-
Hi guys,
I know there are numerous pro players here at BTC, I want to ask a few questions about playing pro.
1) What does a pro baccarat player do besides playing?
2) How would he manage his time and winnings?
3) Does he encounter any problems like family/social/health problems that are caused by playing baccarat?
4) What has he sacrificed to go pro? (eg, education, friends, passion, romance, social status, etc)
I am far from being a pro player, but I still want to learn more about this. It would be great if someone wants to share.
The answer to your question all depends on what you mean by playing pro, if you are referring to playing for living, (witch I never did)
I could tell you that every pro. player that I knew that played for I living were not very happy people.
I don't know of any pro. on this forum that plays for a living.
If you could quantify you question then we could go for there.
Norm
BTW what is your name ?
-
Thanks norm! I usually practicing online with Luckylive. They offer fun money play.
That is the best way to practice rather then a pre. filed in scorecard.
Where did you play for your casino trip ?
Norm
-
Hi guys! I just finished my first trip to casino to test out NOR after I purchased. It turned out pretty well. I played 15 shoes and ended up +82u, an average of +5.5u per shoe (I know its a low score for many of you!). Since I wasnt too confident I only use a conservative 123 4 prog (used that 4 bet only one time) and aim for +10u per shoe. My max win was +16u and max loss was -7u. My shoe win rate is 12/15 (80%), but I ended some shoe before winning ten cos I am pretty timid to bet when the OR count or SAP count dont fit exactly my system (for example I would quit after losing a 3 bet in F when the OR count hasnt advanced since the last 10-20 decisions, even if im still up in units).
But still! This successful trial of NOR boosted my confidence as a baccarat player. I hope to get on the pro's level soon! Can you guys give me some tips on how to improve faster?
Great going, keep it up.
The one and most important tip I could give you is PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.
NORM
-
this is a test
-
Ellis here is a picture of the Roul table.With the payouts.
I will try to re post in a larger size if i can.
Norm
-
Gentlemen, all excellent information. Norm, yes, I meant cols. not lines. Like Don, we mistakenly called them lines back in my days of full time rou.
Norm, I need more help than that to open your film but I would very much like to to refresh my memory. Meanwhile what was the payout on the 0 00 1 bet? Is it 12 to 1?
Keith, yes I too played against A.C. rules where you got half your "outside" bet back on a 0 00 hit. But I played cols. And yes, I used dealer "muscle memory" and bet the two cols that were hitting the most often. That worked very well in spite of the mathematical odds
Hi Ellis
First I don't know what you mean by "needing more help than that to open your film" ???? Are you referring to the attachment ?
I did forget that NJ has the half bet rule when a 0 or 00 comes out on the even money bets only (not on all the out side bets) It has been 35 years since I have been to AC. MS or Vegas does not have this rule, I don't know about PA or CT . But keep in mind that you still have to contend with a 0 and a 00 where as with a single "0" wheel you have the same rule with only one zero.
I remember about 35 years ago that Caesars in AC had a single zero wheel tucked away in a back room, the Min. bet then was $100, that was probable like $1,000 today.
There is no 0,00,1 bet, perhaps you mean a 0,00,2 bet witch is called the Basket bet, witch pays 11 to 1 just like the 3 number street bet.
BTW the worst bet you could make on the layout is the 5 number bet (0,00,1,2,3) witch is called the first line bet, it pays 6 to 1.
All the other bet are proportionate to each other except this bet. Do the math you will see what I mean.
Norm
-
You are right. I meant playing one or two columns out of three columns R/B,O/E,H/L.
Just not to confuse anyone columns are not R/B,O/E,H/L
Columns are the 12 numbers that run the long way on the table there are 3 columns and each pays 2 to 1
it would be like playing the Doz. bets 1st Doz, 2ed Doz,& 3ed Doz, each pays 2 to 1
Norm
PS If anyone is having a problem opening the attachment please let me know.
-
In Baccarat you have to overcome the vig of about -1.15%. In American roulette with two zeros, the vig is -5.56%. With one zero, which you rarely see in usa, the vig is -2.78%. It will be more difficult to beat Roulette than Baccarat with any system due to high vig in usa. Perhaps playing one or two lines out or the three, that is in sync with the nor system may be the Key to Winning.
Hi Donald
You are absolutely correct, playing on a double zero wheel is suicide no mater what system you use.
BTW do you mean playing one or two columns out of three ( not lines) a line is a 6 number bet.
Attached is a table layout showing the various bet and what they are called (note that in the US casinos they do not allow the adjacent column or dozen bets)
Roulette was my first love, up to about 12 years ago I played Rou. for 30 years, before they replaced the wheels with the new type of wheels you see today.
There was a time that I could play Rou. as Well as Ellis could plat BJ., but only on a single zero wheel game with the old type wheel .
BTW: Most of the high class casinos on the strip in Vegas do have single zero wheels in the high limit rooms, but the min. bet is $100 or more.
The only casino I know in Vegas is the MGM Grand, that has a single zero wheel with a min. bet of $25 and $50 on the weekends, they also use the "La Partage" rule witch is
If the ball lands in zero, you only lose half of your wager, but you do not have the choice of leaving the bet as with the "En Prison" rule to get a free ride.
This rule applies only to even money bets like Black and Red section, Odd and Even section, High and Low section.
I hope this info helps some of you rou layout.docx
Norm
PS open the file with MS word.
-
this is a test
-
I'm hearing you Norm and I'm in the process of playing all 60 of your shoes and will be playing them as you advised.
I copied every shoe into my graph book and have already forgotten any whole shoe patterns that I noticed (one of the benefits of growing old...DAMMIT)
I'm going to play each shoe as if I was using a base bet of $200 (hopefully that will prevent me making risky paper only bets) and see how I go using my limited knowledge of NOR+....I'll keep you and anyone who is interested up to speed.
Thank you mate for taking the time to post this invaluable learning tool... This truly is a site where people seem to go the extra mile to turn complete strangers into winners.
Even apart from Ellis...I owe you and so many others on here a huge debt of gratitude and hopefully will be able to return in kind as I progress in my BTC learning experience.
Take care
Oz
UPDATE: I've played the first 14 of Norm's shoes as he advised (only revealing the result after bet has been made)...The first 10 shoes went OK....some good wins and some not so good ...lowest was +7 units but that would have been +10 if I'd followed the half decade rule strictly...BAD OZ!
Lost shoes 11 and 12 ...-8 and -4 respectively (probably shouldn't have made my 4th bet which was a 4 which took me below zero after being up 6)
Shoe 13 was an obvious F shoe that virtually played itself for a big win...and shoe 14 was a not so obvious (to me anyway) S40 shoe which I stopped at +8 (half decade rule) I didn't enter the shoe until play 18 cos I wasn't sure. If I'd played the shoe all the way I would have ended with +20 but would of had to go down to +5 with a 4 bet to come...I know damn well that I wouldn't be doing that with $200 chips...lol
Hey...When I've played all 60 of Norm's shoes, I am happy to post them and table my play by play reasoning so that Ellis or some of the other Pros can analyse my play (Ozspeak for mistakes) lol
Sometimes you learn a lot from the mistakes of others
Finished first 20 shoes
17...18....20 were winners and went down -7 on 19...(I think I played 19 badly...reality check)....but all in all...20 shoes for 3 losses of -8...-4 and -7 max
I think I screwed up shoe 21...pulled out at +2 after hitting +8 twice
Geez...some of these later shoes are proving pretty tough...give an old man a headache:rolleyes:.I was lulled into a false sense of security by the first 10 shoes methinks...but still going ok
That's good playing, keep up the good work. The more you practice the better you will get.
NormA
-
Guys, I'll be leaving for Tunica early tomorrow. Hopefully will be back Tues.
I'm hoping while I'm gone that some of you can take a crack at these shoes.
These are touch shoes. If you can beat these, you can beat anything.
It is very, very important that when you practice with theses shoes you do it in the following manner :
When you print out a shoe DO NOT LOOK AT IT cover it up with a piece of paper and start playing it by reveling one hand at a time.
NO PEEKING AT THE NEXT HAND
Anyone could win a shoe after the fact, when they see the whole shoe in advance. You need to play as though you were in the casino.
ONE HAND AT A TIME. I great way to do this is to teem up with a partner and one partner feeds the shoe to the other one hand at a time.
It could be done over the phone. PJ and I have done this several times.
If you don't practice in this manner you are only kidding yourself.
Also do not expect to get the same results in the casino as you get practicing at home.
In the casino you will have a lot of distractions and pressure, and might be rushed to place you bet.
It is a whole different ball game when you are playing a live game in the casino with money on the table.
Even the best seasoned player will make mistakes in a live casino game.
For the record in theses 60 shoes I won 48 shoes and lost 12 shoes
My highest score was +60. In the 12 shoes that I lost I got out at my stop loss witch is -7 or -8.
My average score over the 60 shoes was +10 unit per shoe.
I never made a bet more then 4 units and very few 4 unit bets.
I do not play the NOR system that is why you see the OT count on my scorecards,
and for this reason I will not post my played shoes as I don't want to muddy the waters,
as most of you are learning and playing NOR.
NOR is a good way to play, stick with it and MASTER it. do not jump from one new system to another if they come along.
All you need to do is MASTER one system no mater what that system is.
It took me 5 years and over 5,000 live casino shoes ( living in Vegas for 3 years I played every day)
to learn how to play the way I am playing now and I am still trying to MASTER it.
When you think you mastered it don't get over confident because it will bite you in the ass.
You must practice every day.
NormA
-
It's a .306 military rifle. I'm pretty sure you're too late to join now. But you didn't miss much.
I see at first I thought M 1 was a #1 supper model that you slept with, I did not sleep with ether one myself.
I did not get the chance to be introduced to the M 1 as I was fighting fires that the low life's were starting in NYC,
they would start fires in the 5 and 6 story tenement buildings so that they could get a better free place to live.
-
Yeah, tell me about it!
You know, I lived a rough life. Did everything possible to do and perhaps a few impossible. Yeah sure, I'm paying for it now.
BUT, everything said and done, I lived life to its fullest, not like some sort of milk toast..... Threw the most accurate snow ball, and baseball, held underwater swimming records, drove the fastest cars, skated with the fastest, slept with an M1, 26 countries on my passport, drank the oldest Scotch... I wouldn't trade lives with anybody!
Same here, but what the hell is a M 1, did I miss something in life ?? maybe its not to late.
-
Thanks Norm! Now I don't feel so old.
I wish that I did not feel so old, problem is that I do feel old , It gets harder & harder to keep going, remember we are the same age.
With some of the same medical problems.
-
60 shoes in one trip! Wow! I used to do that but now I settle for 20. And 60 touch shoes at that! Touch games usually take twice as long to play.
Hi Ellis
The 60 Bac shoes and 20 Roul shoes were played over a 7 day trip, also keep in mind that about 25 of the Bac shoes were only played to half a shoe.
Also at the MGM there are about 12 Bac tables, I would play at a table that had no players and play head to head and let the dealer open all the cards as though it was a MINI game.
I try to avoid MIDI games where the other players are folding and taking forever to open the cards with there 2 spots, 3 spots bull shit and so on it drives me crazy.
This weekend I am going to Biloxi for 3 days and will be playing at the MINI tables to see how they compare to the Vegas Roul shoes.
No Roul on this trip no single "0" in Bilxi.
Having trouble How would you play this?
in BeatTheCasino.com Q and A Baccarat and Blackjack
Posted
I know the Red Rock very well, it was my second home when I lived Vegas (only 10 min. away) I was there every day.
All the dealers know me ask them if they remember me, (Norman Allen) I am sure they will, please say HI to them for me.
I am the guy who is responsible for them lowering the maximum Dragon bet from $100 to $50 because I was hitting it to often,
I got very good at knowing when it was coming, ask Shawn he will tell you all about it ( i think that is his name he is a very big guy and very nice)
I played mostly in the High limit room.
Please say Hi to Terry one of the shift managers also a nice guy.
And if you ever get to the MGM they all know me there also, that was my other hangout.
And don't get me wrong I was not calling you a liar about the 80 hands, just never saw it .
NormA