newbacplayer

Here's the scan of the version I worked on a bit that was provided earlier. Hope it is clear enough. gb

Quizzical1: [regarding the scanned in shoe] I played this starting at hand 7, net betting on O/R column. At hand 10, switched to O/T column as its disparity became lowest. Net bet O/T through the last set of 5P listed on the top of the page, and I got a score of +9. I can scan my page for the forum on Monday and upload it if you would find that useful. Used 1,2,3,4 progression on each side of net bet, and reached a "3" net bet only three times. Very important, though, to switch to the column of lowest disparity as Ellis has said many times. -gb

A quick question. As I understand the disparity as described in the forum and in the videos, it is a number which can never decrease from whatever its maximum would have been for each of the four columns. However, it would seem that if one of the counts has been highly stable for five or six plays, the the actual disparity on that measure should be lower than the raw disparity figure of the disparity of the highest and lowest counts within the shoe. Would it make sense to calculate the disparity within the most recent 10 plays, or something of this nature, rather than the entire shoe? Thanks, Ellis, for your thoughts on this. Greg

I was out of the country at the time of the 4D seminar, but I'm very happy the video is available. I will definitely purchase this when it is available. Thanks

Ellis: I've been wondering about another possibility for Net Betting. Since OTB4L and SB40M1 appear to be two modes of play which essentially cover every possibility in terms of a shoe. . . [one loves TTs the other hates them], could you Net Bet these two systems down a shoe? Would such make sense? I tried it one a difficult shoe to check out the idea and it worked for that. But as a larger question, is this an idea that makes sense to you? Thanks, Greg

I just wanted to share my enthusiasm for the webinar on Saturday. It was excellent and really clarified the material in the written manual. Very practical, and very clearly presented. Thanks Ellis!

No access for me either, and I did attend the webinar.

Quick question: Since S40M1 likes everything except TTs, and since OTB4L loves TTs; from a pure logic perspective, are these not really the only two systems necessary to win? I know that you talk about having many tools, but it would seem that these two tools cover virtually every possible situation. The key question would be when or if to change from one to the other within a shoe.

Signed up, but couldn't make it to the live version. I'm really looking forward to seeing the videos. Thanks, gb

Thank you so very much! Great food for thought and for practice!!!! Greg

Thanks. It was fun. gb

I am far from fully seasoned in this, but every shoe I've seen so far in LV seems to trend towards neutral, as Ellis described in some of his earlier comments. Even those that began with a series of repeats moved towards neutral later, or those that began looking heavy in opposites moved more towards neutral. Perhaps this is the result of the engineered shoes? Anyway, Ellis has remarked on several occasions that with NOR+ all combinations can be beaten in M3 except 5iar. I realize that switching to M2 will fix this problem, but then leave you vulnerable to 4iar. I observed a shoe that I didn't play at Red Rock today where a 5iar was followed by a 4iar followed a bit later by a 5iar followed by yet another 4iar. It would have been a challenging if not impossible shoe due to the rapidly switching modes in NOR+. With that as background, I have a perhaps naive question: If one is playing NOR+ in M3, would a reasonable strategy to consider be to just do a "virtual" bet at #5 of the 5iar and resume with the next hand? This should reduce the loss and provide another data point for the next decision. Any thoughts about this possibility? Would it allow you to play NOR+ in M3 without requiring a change in mode? Thanks, Greg

I attached a shoe from Red Rock Casino in LV today. NOR went quite smoothly! Hope this is helpful as a neutral shoe example.

My wife got rather interested in Bac after she watched me win 8 units in less than half an hour. She prefers to learn by doing, so I got a shoe and felt table top along with 8 decks of cards and an inexpensive shuffler. I know that this lacks the technological savvy of a casino, but it did create a shoe quite challenging for NOR+ OTB4LM3 because the modes kept changes [4iar and 5iar both in the shoe]. I thought I would share it for comment. The OR count is all over the place -3 to a +5. I replayed in F2 to start and did alright, SB40 and OTB4L both hit loss marks early in the shoe [sB40M2 at play 15 after starting at play 5, and OBT4LM3 at play 28 after starting at play 6]. I did play the score cards to hand 60 just to observe what would happen, but would not have done so in a live game for any of them. B2121113411111 B15111425 B313122413 I'll try to attach my three play modes via PDF. weird shoe.pdf

NORGAME6.pdf NORGAME1.pdf NORGAME2.pdf NORGAME3.pdf NORGAME4.pdf NORGAME5.pdf oops looks like the upload didn't properly work.

I apologize, but I don't understand your question. gb

Thanks for your responses! If I had only seen the first part of the shoe, I would have guessed a F shoe based upon the 4iar X2. Probably would have played well that way if I had gotten to P as the dominant side quickly. gb

Greetings: I thought I would share a sample shoe from Sunset Station. There is one Bac table there. P14411132111 B2121121221131 P2112212113112 Arrived and started playing shoe at play 34. Made one error with OTB4L. Up +9 units though at last play. Looks like SB40 would also have been successful at that point in the shoe. Still, a nice success. gb

Greetings all! I was at Palace Station in Las Vegas and sat down at a live game to start play. First time at the table and was a bit disorganized at first. The end of the first shoe was neutral, so I started the new shoe with OTB4L. Was up 8 units within about 15 minutes and still in the first column. I had to stop play as I had to get back to a conference, but I was quite impressed both with OTB4L in the neutral shoe 'live,' and equally amazed at the insane bets that some people were making. One lady was running from table to table putting 100s of dollars on the dragon bet only at multiple tables at a time! Wow. Anyway, off to a great start. Thanks for this wonderful forum. Greg :smile:

No access at this time. That forum is locked. Thanks, Greg

Thanks so much. One other quick question. The additional handout on the site from the bootcamp describes an OT method called OTR Mode 2-1 where one only goes OTR for one result only. Some of these discussions have mentioned that in Mode 2, if you win the first bet to do one more OTR bet. In this latter a long run will produce a +1 rather than a +0 with a 1,2 loss/3 win series. How do we decide whether to play standard Mode 2 [the latter] or Mode 2-1 [the former]? Is there a particular rule to delineate this? Thanks, gb

First, thanks so much for the NOR system. I've read and re-read the manual. The system is quite impressive and in my testing I've been using Zumma shoes to simulate until I get all of the rules deeply ingrained. Seems the reasonable thing before actively putting money out in the casino. I'm getting much better and having to review the rules less, so cash play will start soon. I notice that the Zumma shoes, though, are from the 1990s and many of them have long sections of repeats or ZZs. In looking at the recent posts about shoes in Las Vegas, it would appear that the content of shoes has changed! It looks like now the neutral shoe has become more common by far. So, my question is whether using the Zumma type material is helpful in practice if it is often pointing to SB40 or F rather than OTB4L? Any thoughts on this? Thank you, in advance, for your time and consideration. gb