Questions on NOR manual

[HotCooler]

Hi all,

I'm very new to NOR and yes, I have a lot of puzzled questions to ask. Hope my stupid questions don't offend anyone.

1) On page 5

"But by dividing all shoes into THREE thirds, each of the three NOR systems can be applied only to the shoes where they excel the most spectacularly."

It means that a shoe of 74 games can be divided into 3 sections? And every section may have it's own bias? Which means at every 20 games I may have to look for a new bias?

2) On page 10

"So you glance at the first col and read it as starting with 121314, write those numbers down and then go back and read 211112. See you already transposed a whole column only looking at the shoe twice."

May I know what this mean?

3) On page 13

"Well rarely we do stay OTR until we lose but only if we are seeing a lot of 9s"

On page 15

"Now, with OTB4L, I think it is best to only stay OTR for 1 bet, win or lose unless you are seeing a lot of 7 or mores which is very rare in Neutral shoes."

When you talk about 9s and 7s, are you referring to events of 9 and 7? or the card 9 and 7? or the player won by 9points and 7points?

4) On page 23

What is half decades?

5) -8 units stop loss is for 1 shoe or 1 day?

6) Where can I find NB system that helps pre-shuffled cards? (I'm from Singapore)

7) Where can I find sample shoes to practice in this forum?

8) 123 4 progression means, every time I lose my 1st bet of 1 unit, I go 2nd bet of 2 units, if I lose that 2 units then I go 3 OTR units in mode 2?

9) U1 D2 M2,

I lose, up 1, I win down 2, when to use mandatory 2?

10) What is net betting?

I do have more questions but saving it for next time, so sorry.

Confused guy.

[MVSeahog]

HotCooler,

I had a full blown reply to all the questions but something happened to the forum software and it kind of disappeared into the shuffle machine I think. Anyway, I did manage to salvage this part of the reply....

Hi all,

I'm very new to NOR and yes, I have a lot of puzzled questions to ask. Hope my stupid questions don't offend anyone.

1) On page 5

"But by dividing all shoes into THREE thirds, each of the three NOR systems can be applied only to the shoes where they excel the most spectacularly."

It means that a shoe of 74 games can be divided into 3 sections? And every section may have it's own bias? Which means at every 20 games I may have to look for a new bias?

You're always looking and watching the "bias" of the shoe. If you're running S40 and the shoe turns into a giant streak on either side, the bias has just changed! If you break the shoe up into roughly a set of three sections, it may look different in the third section than the first section.

2) On page 10

"So you glance at the first col and read it as starting with 121314, write those numbers down and then go back and read 211112. See you already transposed a whole column only looking at the shoe twice."

May I know what this mean?

This is our "shorthand" when transcribing or posting up a shoe for anyone to follow.

B121314 literally translates to BPPBP PPBPP PP

Once you've written your transcribed shoes this one a few times, it will become automatic and you'll start to wonder why people use a neverending set of B's and P's to describe the shoe.

When you talk about 9s and 7s, are you referring to events of 9 and 7? or the card 9 and 7? or the player won by 9points and 7points?

Events of 7's and 9's. Not the actual card totals.

4) On page 23

What is half decades?

When deciding when to exit a shoe, watching the "half decades" would be the hands 25, 35, 45, 55, etc.

5) -8 units stop loss is for 1 shoe or 1 day?

Shoe.

7) Where can I find sample shoes to practice in this forum?

There are a lot of posted shoes here in the forum if you search them out. Many of the members post up "unusual" or difficult shoes when they shoe up and those are always good to practice on. Also, having 8 decks (or six) in the house and physically dealing shoes to yourself and picking apart each hand until you get it right, helps a lot. Dealing shoes also teaches you the flow of the game without being able to "peak" ahead and see if your practice bets will work out.

9) U1 D2 M2,

I lose, up 1, I win down 2, when to use mandatory 2?

If you read it as written. It says "Up 1, Down 2, Mandatory 2". This means no matter what the outcome of the first wager, the next one is always a 2.

10) What is net betting?

Assuming you were monitoring and playing both sides of the table (Bank and Player) and you were about to wager 6 on Player and 3 on Banker, the NET BET would be 3 on Player. (6-3=3)

I would recommend that you read through the NOR manuals again, and then keep it close by to track down answers as they come up.

I've been playing NOR for a long time and still have the manual sitting on my desk to look up something unusual when it shows up.

You really can't read or practice too much.

Good luck and just remember that there are no dumb questions. For every person that had a question, there are many who are lurking and will also get an answer.

MVS

[daytrader77459]

Hi, Ellis,

"You're always looking and watching the "bias" of the shoe. If you're running S40 and the shoe turns into a giant streak on either side, the bias has just changed! If you break the shoe up into roughly a set of three sections, it may look different in the third section than the first section. "

Do you play NOR or NOR+ much more frequently via changing NOR strategies? Or changing the modes?

If you were to change from S40 to F for example, at what metric would you make that change? Some potential metrics can include:

1. Change in O/R from positive to below (-2).

2. Change in O/R direction from highest down by (-3) from highest O/R count?

3. Perhaps suffering 4 consecutive losses?

4. See 3s and 4+s events occur back to back?

Just trying to get a better idea as "when" and by what metric is best to adapt and shift to another NOR strategy. Stephen in his NOR Boot Camp dialog mentioned about O/R counts changing direction by +/- 3 in the O/R count. But this happens so frequently - it would cause constant switching from one NOR system to another.

Precisely what would you recommend to trigger to alternative NOR strategy? Thank you.

Daytrader77459

[Keith Smith]

Precisely what would you recommend to trigger to alternative NOR strategy? Thank you.

All statistical control charts ( our O/R count, score card etc ) are calculated with data versus time, with control limits (large moves in count direction) are designed to alert the player to events beyond normal sampling variability. While yes we say that the bias is occuring in a shoe when we see this, I have found the best determination of what to play is shoe specific if applicable( i.e red shoe or blue deck at the table) and then also a sample from the same casino at another baccarat table. It has rarely failed me when we take into consideration not only the specific shoe we are playing but the tendencies of the shoes in the same casino. Most casinos I find are dealing two types at the same time. You need to track the variablity of the shoes in multiple games and see if the games consistenly only have the spread of the count with in the realm of 7 or less. Secondly if there is a shoe that has a directional count of 7 or more in one direction or covering that distance within 6 data points. For example a +3 change then a - 1 Then a +4 change -2 then a +3. If you look at the grand view of things you will identify what two approaches to play in a casino and then match to the game you are in.

I site the intial play session when we discovered the mini bac at the Hollywood casino. They dealt one type of shoe mostly 40 games. We played 40 and honestly won every shoe for two days. We came back again in a month and noticed that we could win with 40, but had to then switch to F or even straight repeats ( by the way I am finding that I sometimes simply consider straight repeats instead of F in some instance as a matter of fact playing with Steve extensively over the last few months we faired much better with straight repeats). You can verify this by players who are new and have the same story, I just got NOR and went in and played 40 and won 10 shoes in a row. A fellow just posted this or mentioned it and then failed to think and watch the games. That is what works for me now, I think the flaw will always be trying to hit a moving target with and objectified rule.

Keith

[Guest]

Hi, Ellis,

"You're always looking and watching the "bias" of the shoe. If you're running S40 and the shoe turns into a giant streak on either side, the bias has just changed! If you break the shoe up into roughly a set of three sections, it may look different in the third section than the first section. "

Do you play NOR or NOR+ much more frequently via changing NOR strategies? Or changing the modes?

If you were to change from S40 to F for example, at what metric would you make that change? Some potential metrics can include:

1. Change in O/R from positive to below (-2).

2. Change in O/R direction from highest down by (-3) from highest O/R count?

3. Perhaps suffering 4 consecutive losses?

4. See 3s and 4+s events occur back to back?

Just trying to get a better idea as "when" and by what metric is best to adapt and shift to another NOR strategy. Stephen in his NOR Boot Camp dialog mentioned about O/R counts changing direction by +/- 3 in the O/R count. But this happens so frequently - it would cause constant switching from one NOR system to another.

Precisely what would you recommend to trigger to alternative NOR strategy? Thank you.

Daytrader77459

Granted, one section might and probably will look different from a hypothetical standpoint, but don't be doing that.

I usually play NOR+ and I favor OTB4L M3. But you must be prepared to match that to U1D2 betting to make up for staying in one mode. Only if I'm seeing long straight or ZZ runs do I play M2. M2 handles long runs better. (Longer than 4.)

I do this because: OTB4L M3 beats single and double 1's (a double 1 is a 4 iar zz) and it beats 2s, 3s, 4s and 6's through 10s.

That is almost everything except 5s straight or zz. If you are seeing a lot of 5s (Very rare) you are best to switch to M2. But even 5s in mode 3, U1D2 handles them OK but you might get up to a 5 or 6 bet. Big whip! I don't ever go more than 7 but I get a 7 like once every 8 shoes. Even less if I'm playing new cards which I usually am. Also I avoid preshuffled cards altogether. Yes they are playable but why give yourself that handicap unnecessarily???

Playing that way I only need to concern myself with switching systems when the shoe is CLEARLY S40 or F. And I only change to mode 2 when it is CLEARLY a Mode 2 shoe. Once in Mode 2 I stay in Mode 2 and let U1D2 take care of it.. But I often go 10 or 20 shoes in a row W/O ever changing systems or modes. Of course that was after careful table selection.

But I DON'T try to follow every nook and cranny of the shoe. I let U1D2 handle all that. Sure, you sometimes get a long run in both OTB4L and S40 shoes but BOTH of those systems can handle the occassional long run esp in mode 2. So I don't let a long run knock me off my stride unless I'm seeing lots of them - which virtually never happens with new cards. Even then I may not change systems. I may simply go to Mode 1 (NOR+) which loves runs.

No, I don't teach U1D2 to brand new players because I don't want them to be betting that high before they know what they are doing. But once they ARE playing smoothly and once they realize that OTB4L handles almost everything then YES, they are better off with U1D2.

I think you guys are far too hung up on changing systems every time you lose a bet. Play like I do and you'll KNOW the few times when you need to change systems. And remember THIS: the more you change systems or modes the WORSE you are going to do.

BTW, to handle LONG straight or ZZ runs with OTB4L U1D2 simply go back on the run at the 10th circle in Mode 3. (after 3 losing bets) In either mode you are on the first circle half the time but you are ALWAYs on the 2nd circle. In mode 2 you are on the run for circles 2,5,6 and 9. When I go OTR for the second time on the same run, (circle 9) I only stay for 1 bet instead of 2. That way you can beat ANY long run regardless how long it is. Try it, you'll see. So much for your fear of long runs.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Guest

[Guest]

Furthermore, one of you said last week you were going along nicely with OTB4L M2 when it was ruined by a 6 in a row. Nonsense! You probably win the first circle, then you win a 1 on the second circle. then you lose the 1,2 and win your 3,1 otr on the 5th and 6th circle. Then you win your 1 bet on the other side. You are either up 3 or 4 on the run depending on if you hit the first circle. Now you are still playing OTB4L because that is what was winning before the run. The run doesn't change anything. You only think about F if you are in extreme streak or the shoe is STRONGLY favoring one side. Give OTB4L a chance and it will usually come through for you. When it doesn't, there won't be any doubt about it.

[ECD]

Hi guys...

I have a feeling that I am missing the obvious re: Streak System...I can understand how a player can enter the game fairly early with System 40 ...but am unsure as to how early a player can enter a new shoe using "F" when it appears to me that you need to see a longer OR count to be aware that it is a Streak shoe.

Fair enough if you are entering the shoe "mid-shoe"...but the timing of entry to a new shoe has me perplexed

My apologies if this is already fully explained in the Manuals and I'm not catching on as quick as I should

Oz