EZ Baccarat in Vegas

[scottbanks]

Hey Guys,

I am heading to Vegas this month and am staying on the Strip. What casinos on the Strip have EZ Baccarat (no-commission baccarat with the Dragon 7 and Panda 8 side bets)?

I know Gold Coast has it, but I am looking for a Strip casino which has it. Does anyone know?

You help is much appreciated!

Thanks & Good Luck to everyone in 2014!!

[Norm A]

Hey Guys,

I am heading to Vegas this month and am staying on the Strip. What casinos on the Strip have EZ Baccarat (no-commission baccarat with the Dragon 7 and Panda 8 side bets)?

I know Gold Coast has it, but I am looking for a Strip casino which has it. Does anyone know?

You help is much appreciated!

Thanks & Good Luck to everyone in 2014!!

Most of the strip casinos that had EZ do not have it anymore the only two that I know on the strip that might still have it is the Monte Carlo or the Paris but that was over a year ago.

There are other casinos besides Gold Coast that has EZ Baccarat, the Redrock Casino and all the stations casinos have it.

Here is the email address of the owner of EZ baccarat, his name is Lue, I had his phone number but I cannot find it any longer as it has been some time ago, also not sure if this email address is still valid.

lwdatdp@aol.com

[Plus One]

Palace Station too

[Guest]

Not sure why you are looking for such casinos scottbanks. You'll actually be paying even more commission and the other bets offered are sucker bets.

Although the game does usually run a little faster. EZ bac is fine but why limit yourself to it when it has no odds advantage.

[Norm A]

Not sure why you are looking for such casinos scottbanks. You'll actually be paying even more commission and the other bets offered are sucker bets.

Although the game does usually run a little faster. EZ bac is fine but why limit yourself to it when it has no odds advantage.

I am not quite sure why you say that you would actually be paying even more commission.

As long as you do not make the sucker bets, NO commission is NO commission !!.

The FEW times that the Dragon comes out in a shoe it will ONLY affect you if you HAPPEN to be betting on banker at that time,

and even at that it is a PUSH not a loss.

If this game gave the casino an edge the MGM and Wynns would not have removed it after they tried it for a few months. They removed it because they were losing money with it.

BTW the house edge for EZ Bac is slightly less then regular Baccarat. 1.02 for EZ Bac as compared to 1.06

Personally I would rather play EZBac any day of the week rather than pay 5% commission on my banker wins.

[Guest]

Norm, I'm sure you can check with the Wizard of Odds but you are paying more commission. It is just collected a different way. Instead of paying 5% on Bank wins they are calling specific Bank wins a push instead of a win. That works out to more than 5% commission. So even forgetting the sucker bets, overall EZ Bac favors the casino slightly more than when commission is collected the standard way. I like to play it too but only because it is faster - not because it has better odds - it doesn't.

BTW, 5% commission on Bank wins works out to 1.25% of the money bet.

Even forgetting the Bank edge and assuming you bet Bank half the time and that Bank wins half the time, that makes commission 5%/4 = 1.25%. The Bank edge makes the casino edge even greater.

[Guest]

BTW During my trip to A.C. with Virtuoid, I noticed in both the casinos we played, we were the only ones playing the EZ Bac selection. We played those tables head up againt the dealer by ourselves - 4 shoes. No one else sat down with us on a Saturday night! Everyone else was playing the regular 5% commission tables. It could be that some casinos dropped it because of lack of play rather than lack of edge. The players seemed leary of it - as they should be if my math is correct.

Casinos also say their edge in BJ is .05%. If so, nearly half the players should be winning - but they aren't.

You need to be leary of what casinos say the game odds are.

[wolfat]

paris has a EZ table, min 25 $

[Norm A]

Norm, I'm sure you can check with the Wizard of Odds but you are paying more commission. It is just collected a different way. Instead of paying 5% on Bank wins they are calling specific Bank wins a push instead of a win. That works out to more than 5% commission. So even forgetting the sucker bets, overall EZ Bac favors the casino slightly more than when commission is collected the standard way. I like to play it too but only because it is faster - not because it has better odds - it doesn't.

BTW, 5% commission on Bank wins works out to 1.25% of the money bet.

Even forgetting the Bank edge and assuming you bet Bank half the time and that Bank wins half the time, that makes commission 5%/4 = 1.25%. The Bank edge makes the casino edge even greater.

This is a link to the company who invented EZ Bac with their description of the odds.

http://www.deq.com/en/table-games/ez-baccarat-math.php

This is a link to wizardofodds with the house for EZ Bac (even though he is using a six deck shoe it would not make that much difference in a shoe eight deck shoe)= House edge = 1.02

http://wizardofodds.com/games/baccarat/appendix/6/#ezbaccarat

This is a link to wizardofodds with the house for the regular game with commission.= House edge = 1.06

http://wizardofodds.com/games/baccarat/

But rather then getting into a pissing contest about the house edge, as the difference between the two is so small it really does not make all that much difference overall.

Putting the mathematics and the house edge aside,

IMO and the way I see it, when I lived in Vegas for four years played EZ Bac about 80% of the time when I was able to get a seat at this game,

I don't know how it is now but about two years ago the Red Rock Casino had two Bac tables, one was EZ Bac and the other was a commission table, the commission table was always empty and you had to get on the waiting list to play the EZ Bac table. The same was true when the MGM had EZBac. and the same was true at Gold Coast casino.

I don't know what the time frame was when you played EZBac in AC but it is possible that the game was so new that players were not familiar with it and shyed away from it at that time. It is a whole different story today.

The bottom line is, regardless what the math says when I am finished playing the shoe at EZBac I have more money in my pocket as I don't have to shell out $500 or more for commissions.

Some people will say that if you had banker bet and a three card seven came out for bank that you lost your bet, the way I see I did not lose anything you cannot lose what you do not have, it would be no different then if they tie came out it is a push either way.

In most of the shoes that I played I very seldom encountered a three card seven when I was betting for banker, most shoes only have one or two, three card seven for banker, and many shoes never have any.

Another factor that is important is that the way I play I do not bet every hand as many players do (on average I will bet about 50% of the hands in the shoe) , playing every hand will increase your exposure to the three card seven on banker.

My math tells me that every time I play EZBac I have more money in my pocket.

Please, I hope nobody's going to tell me it's better for me because I play bigger units and pay higher commissions, no matter what size unit you play it's all relative.

[scottbanks]

This is a link to the company who invented EZ Bac with their description of the odds.

http://www.deq.com/en/table-games/ez-baccarat-math.php

This is a link to wizardofodds with the house for EZ Bac (even though he is using a six deck shoe it would not make that much difference in a shoe eight deck shoe)= House edge = 1.02

http://wizardofodds.com/games/baccarat/appendix/6/#ezbaccarat

This is a link to wizardofodds with the house for the regular game with commission.= House edge = 1.06

http://wizardofodds.com/games/baccarat/

But rather then getting into a pissing contest about the house edge, as the difference between the two is so small it really does not make all that much difference overall.

Putting the mathematics and the house edge aside,

IMO and the way I see it, when I lived in Vegas for four years played EZ Bac about 80% of the time when I was able to get a seat at this game,

I don't know how it is now but about two years ago the Red Rock Casino had two Bac tables, one was EZ Bac and the other was a commission table, the commission table was always empty and you had to get on the waiting list to play the EZ Bac table. The same was true when the MGM had EZBac. and the same was true at Gold Coast casino.

I don't know what the time frame was when you played EZBac in AC but it is possible that the game was so new that players were not familiar with it and shyed away from it at that time. It is a whole different story today.

The bottom line is, regardless what the math says when I am finished playing the shoe at EZBac I have more money in my pocket as I don't have to shell out $500 or more for commissions.

Some people will say that if you had banker bet and a three card seven came out for bank that you lost your bet, the way I see I did not lose anything you cannot lose what you do not have, it would be no different then if they tie came out it is a push either way.

In most of the shoes that I played I very seldom encountered a three card seven when I was betting for banker, most shoes only have one or two, three card seven for banker, and many shoes never have any.

Another factor that is important is that the way I play I do not bet every hand as many players do (on average I will bet about 50% of the hands in the shoe) , playing every hand will increase your exposure to the three card seven on banker.

My math tells me that every time I play EZBac I have more money in my pocket.

Please, I hope nobody's going to tell me it's better for me because I play bigger units and pay higher commissions, no matter what size unit you play it's all relative.

Guys,

Thanks to everyone and especially Norm! I contacted Lou (with EZ Baccarat) and he told me there are no Strip casinos which offer EZ Bacc anymore.

In Vegas, it can be found only at the "local" casinos of Gold Coast, Orleans, Red Rock, and Palace Station. With Palace Station having the most EZ Bacc tables! It looks like I will be making a trip to Palace Station & Gold Coast for sure, then. :-)

[Wendel]

I just played my first 2 (and only , so far EZBAC game) , I paid 5 units in commission by having to push

2 - 2 unit bets and one 1 unit bet. I think that EZ-bac is a distinct disadvantage to

NOR/NOR+ players who frequently make multiple unit bets .

I prefer to look at commission as a percentage of winnings as opposed to a percentage of bets placed.

Normally in 2 shoes , i might pay 1.5 units total. so winning 20 units and paying 1.5 units in commission , I am paying 7.5 % of winnings

compared to winning 20 units and paying 5.0 units in commission, I am paying 25 % of winnings

Even If you have a loss are still charged commission, so pushing multiple unit bets on certain bank wins just adds insult to injury.

Wendel

[Guest]

Well, all you guys may be right. Maybe EZ Bac is a slightly better deal for the players other than just being faster. I may be wrong about that. I simply can't tell from the Wizard's wording.

Yes, I see where he says the house edge on Bank bets is 1.06 % in standard Bac. I also see where he says the Player bet House edge is 1.24%.

But I can't find overall Baccarat house odds anywhere.

I also see where he says the 3 card 7 EZ Bac Bank bet house edge is 1.02 %. But again no overall game odds.

I don't think you can compare Bank bets only but I'm not sure.

The whole study gave me a headache W/O actually telling me anything meaningful.

If you guys say the odds are better after playing EZ Bac, I'll take your word for it. I haven't played it that much but the odds seemed better to me, too.

But it's the first time in 30+ years I've ever seen casinos knowingly come up with ANY game variation that actually favored the players. That's what I was going by.

To me, when the Wizard throws in The Banker edge into every calculation he over complicates everything, let alone the fact that he calls a 4 iar a 3 iar rendering his frequency of events useless and misleading to the way people actually play the game. Also when one shoe ends in a 4 iar and the next shoe begins with a 3 iar he calls that a 5 iar. His 20iars could be 11 in one shoe + 11 in another shoe. Nobody plays that way.

To me its like this: The game odds are exactly 50/50 + commission. Nobody can argue that. The commission is 5% of Bank wins. 4 things can happen not counting ties. Therefore avg commission per bet is simply 5/4 or 1.25 % of total money bet. Add in the Bank edge and it maybe works out closer to 1.27% but who cares. What difference how much of that is paid on Bank bets vs Player bets when we bet them both about equally? But use whatever makes sense to you personally.

[Guest]

Check this out. The Wizard says the house edge in BJ is 0.28%. That is far less than the edge in Bac, no matter how you calculate it. A quarter of 1%.

That is close to nothing. Virtually all BJ players play Basic Strategy.

So, on a Sat afternoon with a full casino, on a walk through the BJ tables, you SHOULD see nearly half of the BJ players winning. At least half of the BS BJ players should be winning if those odds are correct. But, in fact, you'll be lucky to find even one winner. So, are those odds wrong? No, they are exactly right. They just aren't real world. 0.28% is based on random cards. And you'll never see random cards at any BJ table on a Sat afternoon. In fact you'll never see random cards in any mature BJ game with multiple players.

How does this relate to Bac? Well the same shuffles and machines are used. I can tell you this much. Players that play that all events will work out to their normal random frequencies - do the worst! Players that play biases do the best. What's another word for biased? Non-random. Predictable.

[Norm A]

Check this out. The Wizard says the house edge in BJ is 0.28%. That is far less than the edge in Bac, no matter how you calculate it. A quarter of 1%.

That is close to nothing. Virtually all BJ players play Basic Strategy.

So, on a Sat afternoon with a full casino, on a walk through the BJ tables, you SHOULD see nearly half of the BJ players winning. At least half of the BS BJ players should be winning if those odds are correct. But, in fact, you'll be lucky to find even one winner. So, are those odds wrong? No, they are exactly right. They just aren't real world. 0.28% is based on random cards. And you'll never see random cards at any BJ table on a Sat afternoon. In fact you'll never see random cards in any mature BJ game with multiple players.

How does this relate to Bac? Well the same shuffles and machines are used. I can tell you this much. Players that play that all events will work out to their normal random frequencies - do the worst! Players that play biases do the best. What's another word for biased? Non-random. Predictable.

Hi Ellis

I don't ever remember hearing the term (normal random frequencies)

Could you please explain to me what normal random frequencies is.

Thanks

Norm

[DarkValefor]

some how i learn not to thrust the odds, Bj by right calculated is 2% plus if i don't remember wrong but the actual rate a normal player are losing are far greater then 15 %, if i am not mistaken "normal random frequencies" is like if you stick to system without choosing when or where to bet just any shoe any round, ex. bet selection + any money management system from start shoes to end shoe every single round assuming that it make money over all.

every things on earth has a characteristic a fixed property or event not even casino game escape that in long term.

[Natural_9]

Not sure why you are looking for such casinos scottbanks. You'll actually be paying even more commission and the other bets offered are sucker bets.

Although the game does usually run a little faster. EZ bac is fine but why limit yourself to it when it has no odds advantage.

I thought there was a whole row about a group of players with fat bankrolls storming Chicago EZ-bac tables and counting the Dragon. It got so bad, that my casinos now set the rules that you are forced to bet the table minimum on a regular play whenever you bet the Dragon. Ha! Also, whenever I have a hot night, my casino likes to jack the table minimums every 30 minutes to freeze me out lol.

[Natural_9]

I just played my first 2 (and only , so far EZBAC game) , I paid 5 units in commission by having to push

2 - 2 unit bets and one 1 unit bet. I think that EZ-bac is a distinct disadvantage to

NOR/NOR+ players who frequently make multiple unit bets .

I prefer to look at commission as a percentage of winnings as opposed to a percentage of bets placed.

Normally in 2 shoes , i might pay 1.5 units total. so winning 20 units and paying 1.5 units in commission , I am paying 7.5 % of winnings

compared to winning 20 units and paying 5.0 units in commission, I am paying 25 % of winnings

Even If you have a loss are still charged commission, so pushing multiple unit bets on certain bank wins just adds insult to injury.

Wendel

I say use the JSTAT count and bet the pushes when you get a chance.