Not Betting every hand

[eridu]

Hello there,

I'm still studying the concept of NOR, is there a way not to bet every hand for NOR?

I hope somebody can help me. It will be suitable for me if there is a way. Because I'm not use to betting every hand.

Thanks in advance...

[wolfat]

Unless its a choppy shoe, you cou

d avoid betting on singles.

IE, its an OTBL shoe, you bet only against a 2 in a row.

you can do this to get the most obvious pattern you are chasing.

[eridu]

Thanks bacclover.......

If that is the case I might not be utilizing the strength of NOR as a whole. I brought this out because my strategy is not betting on every hand.

I am used to flat betting and the only prog that I am using is 112. I'm thinking that maybe there is a way that utilizing NOR as a whole and bet only on the hand that most likely to win.

I'm still practicing on S40 and OTB4L. May I know exactly on how to switch to this two system? Is the OR count the only clue we have?

[wolfat]

I think that your approach is savvy and is similar to mine.

I suggest you, like I do, to deploy the OT count. I find it rich of useful infos (OTBL vs TBL).

It shows you, IE if a shoe is running or is staying into neutral and how long the run, usually stand.

try it!

[wolfat]

To clarify: by OT count I mean instead an OT column, like PB. You can play patterns that match each other column (PB and OT).

[eridu]

Hi Bacclover,

Sorry for the late reply. I'm quite busy nowadays.

Its not clear what you are suggesting but maybe I have figure it out, just see first the attachment plus a little explanation.

Maybe this the one you are suggesting me to do. Thanks for your interest in my matters....

Can you check also this play if NOR will beat this, or what system of NOR will beat this.

P135112421

B22311213122

P1131141116

P1122141

Nowadays I'm seeing this type of play everyday on many shoes.

Thanks again man........and good day.........

[wolfat]

I deploy a vertical scorecard, anyway I think you get the idea.

[Guest]

I deploy a vertical scorecard, anyway I think you get the idea.

Andrea, I'm so pleased to hear from you! How are you doing?

eridu, wolfat is correct. An OT count is very valuable.

However in your case:

I don't know where you are playing but the shoe you posted is highly susceptible to our MDB+ system.

Just as MDB+ has done so well in Las Vegas lately. Please tell me where you are playing!!!

Also, I'd like to know the brand of the cards your casino(s) is using.

Yes, an OT count is very helpful especially if you are up against a NOR situation.

But I don't think you are based on the shoe you posted.

And I'm hoping you are correct when you say this shoe is typical.

Your shoe, events are occurring close to there mathematical frequency of occurrence.

This is what makes your shoe so highly susceptible to MDB+ and at the same time, so unsusceptible to NOR.

Yes, an OT count is very helpful as wolfat said -

But in your case, I would recommend an SAP count if you are going to keep a count.

I'm sure wolfat will agree since he helped me develop SAP.

An SAP count will tell you how susceptible your shoe is to MDB+.

It tells you how close to random your shoe is - MDB+

and/or how far from random your shoe is - NOR

I would like our most experienced MDB+ player, way2fast, to play your shoe and tell us the result.

Now I'm basing a whole lot on just ONE shoe, but I'm also going by your remark that your posted shoe is typical of what you are seeing where you are playing.

This would explain why NOR is weak where you are playing but also why MDB+ is so strong.

MDB+ only bets when the shoe generates one of 7 bet signals - so it doesn't bet very often at all.

MDB+ basically bets that a shoe will not stray very far from the random mathematical frequency of occurrence.

We also call it the 5 of a kind system because it is basically betting that a shoe won't produce 5 of one event W/O the neighboring events occurring.

In Las Vegas, plus some other casinos that use factory preshuffled cards, every bet we make with MDB+ is enjoying a 60% or better hit rate. That is the highest consistent hit rate in the entire history of Baccarat.

It looks to me, based on only one shoe, that you are in an MDB+ situation.

MDB+ is very easy to learn. It is purely mechanical and has no modes.

You just sit there and wait for your bet signals to occur. You bet separate 124 progressions on each bet signal.

Our progression hit rate has been running about 95% against Vegas cards.

You don't need any counts, however an SAP count measures how susceptible a shoe is to MDB+.

The closer the 4 SAP counts are to each other - the more susceptible your shoe is to MDB+.

The more wide spread your SAP count is the more susceptible your shoe is to NOR.

But I'm guessing that wherever you are playing, you are facing an MDB+ situation - a tight SAP count situation.

We would all appreciate if you would post a few more of shoes you consider typical.

You only need to post shoes using our short cut posting method.

We can tell very quickly just from that. We don't need the shoes posted played out.

That way we can confirm my opinion of what you SHOULD be playing.

Meanwhile, Andrea, well and eridu too, a belated Merry Christmas but especially a successful New Year!

PS - Andrea, Ive recently heard from Burnadette. She is in good spirits!

"deploy"! That is an excellent choice of words! Your English is doing great!

Edited January 22, 2015 by Ellis

[wolfat]

Ellis,

tx for your kind words, as usual. I'm still in contact with BB too and met her in LV. last year. Enjoied the visit and her company a lot.

Unfortunely since september I gave up with baccarat (playing for money) as my wife fallen into serious illness and my time is devoted to her.

Hope to have good news within the next month. In this moment I simply keep me updated, don't have the right mindset to play for money.

take care

andrea

[Guest]

Andrea, I went through that with my wife for many years. Most men would move on. But neither you or I are that type.

Hang in there and give her your full support. You will always be glad you did. Your rewards will come later.

[ECD]

I would like our most experienced MDB+ player, way2fast, to play your shoe and tell us the result.

There are nine MDB+ betting signals in this shoe. All of them win for +9 units. More details posted in the MDB forum.

[eridu]

Hi Ellis,

I’m playing in PAGCOR (Philippine Amusement Game Corporation) that have many branches all over the Philippines. I’m located in Manila. Before this type of shoe is not there but there are certain times of the day that this type of shoe will appear on many tables of the casino. I guessed that they change something in the shuffle of the cards. This type of shoe is really difficult to beat. I’ve no idea what brand of cards they have, but I know it is made in China. Next time I’ll check it out and post more shoe.

The shoe posted is different from the picture shown. This is for wolfat to see if I got the suggestion.

Thanks Ellis for dropping by, so that means I cannot use the NOR approach to this type of shoe. I’m still new to NOR and I think I’m already done with the concept, now I’m practicing to apply it fully by going to this land base casino to make a paper bet only. I’d like to know how far it can get. But seeing this type of shoe that I’ve posted (not the picture). I think I have to avoid such shoe because I don’t know how to play MDB+. There are choppy shoe maybe 2 tables and streaky, 212131417 and the usual TT.

Thanks

[ECD]

difficult to beat? This shoe is a gift. Rather than avoiding it because NOR doesn't work for you, you should learn MDB+ and walk home with all the money.

[eridu]

Hi way2fast,

Ellis said to post more shoes, so here it is what I collected last time.

I don't have yet the budget to upgrade to MDB that is why I'm only focusing on the application

of NOR, unfortunately I'm encountering this type of shoe. It's very rare now that I'm seeing

the shoe that is more suitable for NOR, I think in order for me to win, I'll quit when I'm ahead

of 2 to 3 units. Then find another table.

Anyway thank you very much in taking the time to play the shoe I've posted

(seen the details in MDB forum).

shoe #1

B311221434

P1114231115

P313132111111

P34211

shoe #2

B4231145

P4211112413

P22111221111131

P1215

shoe #3

B411312316

P31925

B12311223116

shoe #4

P11124312113

B226232111

P421123431

[eridu]

Andrea, I'm so pleased to hear from you! How are you doing?

eridu, wolfat is correct. An OT count is very valuable.

However in your case:

I don't know where you are playing but the shoe you posted is highly susceptible to our MDB+ system.

Just as MDB+ has done so well in Las Vegas lately. Please tell me where you are playing!!!

Also, I'd like to know the brand of the cards your casino(s) is using.

Yes, an OT count is very helpful especially if you are up against a NOR situation.

But I don't think you are based on the shoe you posted.

And I'm hoping you are correct when you say this shoe is typical.

Hi Ellis ( and any experience player),

I already answered where I'm playing it is in post #12. I hope you're okay Ellis......

I cannot see anymore card prep on the table I think that was 15 years back or so. What I can see now is the cards will pass thru a transparent backroom of the casino with casino personnel only allowed. The 8 sealed boxes of cards will arrived on a plastic colored box with lock on it. They will be opened and they will mixed it by hand face down, I think even the used cards they do it that way, the only difference is the used cards they are checking it for crumpled or torn. I’ve no idea what they do if found unusable. I cannot ask questions. It seems everybody does not know anything including the pit bosses. I can see 2 shuffling machines (transparent with green color). After mixing the cards by hand they will load it to that shuffler. I cannot tell how long because all eyes of casino personnel inside is on me. So I get away. …. I don’t wanna be suspected of spying. I think after all this process they will load the bundle of 8 decks to a transparent plastic container with seal. Then this container will go to the table, the pit boss will open it with the dealer beside him/her then any passerby’s player will be asked to cut the cards and the pitboss will get the white card to insert at the end as a marker for the last deal then load the cards to the dispenser. Then the dealer will burn cards according to the first card that will come out. Let say it is a king, he will burn ten more cards accordingly (value of 10) if an ace 1. Then the dealer will deal 2 hands and enter the result in the tote bard (computer electronic board). That’s it, anybody can start playing on this table.

BTW the card brand is club angel.

Now because of this, I think in your own description of regular, factory pre-shuffled cards, this is not the way. To what I think it is a tampered casino cards. So how can I beat this if NOR will not work on it. Nowadays I’m seeing a lot of this type of shoe. I’m only focusing to NOR only because I’m very new to it. If NOR will not be enough as my equipment what else can I try. Is net betting applicable to this type of shoe?

Thanks…………….

[Fedda]

Hi eridu! Have you signed up to MDB+? If NOR doesn't work, MDB+ usually will.

It's 100% mechanical and easy to learn.

[Guest]

Hi Ellis,

I’m playing in PAGCOR (Philippine Amusement Game Corporation) that have many branches all over the Philippines. I’m located in Manila. Before this type of shoe is not there but there are certain times of the day that this type of shoe will appear on many tables of the casino. I guessed that they change something in the shuffle of the cards. This type of shoe is really difficult to beat. I’ve no idea what brand of cards they have, but I know it is made in China. Next time I’ll check it out and post more shoe.

The shoe posted is different from the picture shown. This is for wolfat to see if I got the suggestion.

Thanks Ellis for dropping by, so that means I cannot use the NOR approach to this type of shoe. I’m still new to NOR and I think I’m already done with the concept, now I’m practicing to apply it fully by going to this land base casino to make a paper bet only. I’d like to know how far it can get. But seeing this type of shoe that I’ve posted (not the picture). I think I have to avoid such shoe because I don’t know how to play MDB+. There are choppy shoe maybe 2 tables and streaky, 212131417 and the usual TT.

Thanks

This one happens to be a PERFECT F2 shoe thus far. You have a 22 play run of sporadic 1's. Very Strong Sided. The shoe is favoring one side by more than 2 to 1. A simple 1,2 prog is already at +17. An experienced player would know to switch to a 345 prog about play 11 and already be at +35. All of this is in your NOR manual.

F shoes are easy to recognize. Sporadic 1's = F2. Sporadic 1's and 2s is F3.

F shoes are usually rare but present a golden opportunity every once in a while IF YOU SEE IT!

But sporadic 1's are hard to miss even for inexperienced players.

Whenever you see this (a 2 to 1 or better ratio) favoring one side, you drop whatever you are doing and play F.

You don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

But this is just THIS shoe. It doesn't solve your overall problem.

I'll let way2fast respond to the shoes you posted re MDB+

Meanwhile, let me take a closer look at them from other perspectives.

So, OK, you are playing regular cards that went through some type of secret card prep when they were new.

I take it that the shoes you posted were "no touch" games. Is that correct?

[eridu]

Hi again Ellis,

All are touch games here except for few tables (2).

200 pesos minimum bet = 4.5 USD untouched but this one have a continuous shuffler / dispenser (brand: master shuffler model one to six with 6 decks on it) in the table. I can see a lot of times this having more bias than other table with touch games. They only change the cards if the dealer will change for next shift.

300 pesos = 6 USD, 500 pesos= 11 USD, 1000 pesos= 23USD, and 2000 pesos= 43USD all are touch games.

I still did not read F2 and F3 instructions I’m looking for it I don’t know if they are the same as F. One of the post that I’ve read is you are assigning F play for (SS) Strong sided shoe type but in the manual that I received it is for SS and streaky shoes, side by side. That’s why I’m little bit confused and also the six sample shoe for NOR is F is for streaky and the instruction as well.

Anyway if I find F2 and F3 instructions I will check again the posted shoe.

Thanks a lot…….

[JayBac]

Hi All,

I'm new to this forum and I have some pretty basic questions. So please bear with me.

My questions are with regards to NOR, which I have been learning for the last few days:

1- What would be good progressions to use? Specifically, I am interested in progressions to use after winning.

2- The examples in the manual seem to favor 1,2,3. I understand betting higher after a loss gives you a shot at winning back some of your losses. But how could one make money that way?

3- Also, during the modes when things are changing and uncertainty is high, should one keep progressing up after a loss or stick with the minimum until they have evidence one of the 3 strategies can be used again?

4- Last question, can someone walk me through a detailed example of U1D2M2 and explain how to use it? Again, addressing winning as well as losing would be helpful.

Thank you guys so much he in advance.

J.

[eridu]

Hi eridu! Have you signed up to MDB+? If NOR doesn't work, MDB+ usually will.

It's 100% mechanical and easy to learn.

Hello fatherfred,

I did not sign up yet, I'm still new to NOR. That's my focus right now to grasp the concept and use it on the right moment when there is an opprtunity. Maybe my next step is MDB if I get to use to NOR approaches.