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Preshuffled vs. Hand shuffled


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I usually play in my local casino where they offer only preshuffled cards. The cards come to the table in a clear plastic container of 8 decks.The cards are very carefully taken out of the box by the dealer, and offered to one of the players to "cut". There is absolutely no shuffling whatsoever. The dealer then pulls the top card out, let's say if the card happens to be a 5, then dealer counts 5 cards out and throws them in the discard tray. The dealer then puts the rest of the cards in the card dispenser and begins dealing.

Why am I telling you this? Because recently, I have been playing online and they use only 6 decks of "hand" shuffled cards. There is no shufflemaster. However the cards still come out exactly as they would if they were preshuffled. Even the ties occur at the same spots that you would expect them to come out in preshuffled shoes. Does anyone have any thoughts on how the hell they manage to keep the cards in order even after a hand shuffle. It blows my mind as to how they are doing it.

Thoughts welcome.

CT70

 

 

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When you are playing "live dealer" online Baccarat, can you tell for sure whether the game you are seeing is a being dealt by a LIVE dealer or a recording of a live dealer dealing the game ?

I have only looked at live dealer on line casino's very briefly, but when I did I could see no indication as to the date or time of day, Actually, I only played the demo's , so they may well have been taped

i have wondered for a while if I had missed something but I am not interested enough to go through the hoops of opening an online account, because the game moves too fast for me and I was not having a very good experience..

Some body please set my mind at ease.

Thanks

Edited by Wendel
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1 hour ago, Wendel said:

 

When you are playing "live dealer" online Baccarat, can you tell for sure whether the game you are seeing is a being dealt by a LIVE dealer or a recording of a live dealer dealing the game ?

I have only looked at live dealer on line casino's very briefly, but when I did I could see no indication as to the date or time of day, Actually, I only played the demo's , so they may well have been taped

i have wondered for a while if I had missed something but I am not interested enough to go through the hoops of opening an online account, because the game moves too fast for me and I was not having a very good experience..

Some body please set my mind at ease.

Thanks

Wendel,

I can't speak for all online casinos but for the popular ones like Bet Phoenix and 5Dimes they are live.  The test for that is to see if there is a way to chat with the dealer.  Start a chat with the dealer and see if you get a response.  IF you get a response watch the dealer's face to see if he/she has read  it and responded.  No response, no play.  Again, the only two foreign sites that I have been to are those two and they are live.   In NJ, the Golden Nugget has live dealers and I interact with all of them.  They are all female dealers and I think I told everyone one of them I love them and asked them to marry me.  

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9 hours ago, CT70 said:

I usually play in my local casino where they offer only preshuffled cards. The cards come to the table in a clear plastic container of 8 decks.The cards are very carefully taken out of the box by the dealer, and offered to one of the players to "cut". There is absolutely no shuffling whatsoever. The dealer then pulls the top card out, let's say if the card happens to be a 5, then dealer counts 5 cards out and throws them in the discard tray. The dealer then puts the rest of the cards in the card dispenser and begins dealing.

Why am I telling you this? Because recently, I have been playing online and they use only 6 decks of "hand" shuffled cards. There is no shufflemaster. However the cards still come out exactly as they would if they were preshuffled. Even the ties occur at the same spots that you would expect them to come out in preshuffled shoes. Does anyone have any thoughts on how the hell they manage to keep the cards in order even after a hand shuffle. It blows my mind as to how they are doing it.

Thoughts welcome.

CT70

 

 

CT,

I am slowly getting away with the myth that pre-shuffled cards are any different then hand shuffled or shuffle machine.  I was at Parx last week and saw EZ-Bacc that has a shuffle machine deal 18 Bankers in a row.  The table was three deep and everyone was just jumping on Bank, with all the people standing behind the players just topping the bets.  The casino took a beating with that shoe.  If the shuffle machine was designed to, or someone programmed 18 Bankers in a row the casino would have a problem with that machine or guy.   Your casino is the only casino that I know that prepares the cards like they do.  

At Parx with the Pre-Shuffled cards, they take the 8 decks out of the box and shuffles them again and then someone cuts the cards.  All the AC casinos and SANDS PA does that as well.   I don't know.  

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2 hours ago, McVince said:

Wendel,

I can't speak for all online casinos but for the popular ones like Bet Phoenix and 5Dimes they are live.  The test for that is to see if there is a way to chat with the dealer.  Start a chat with the dealer and see if you get a response.  IF you get a response watch the dealer's face to see if he/she has read  it and responded.  No response, no play.  Again, the only two foreign sites that I have been to are those two and they are live.   In NJ, the Golden Nugget has live dealers and I interact with all of them.  They are all female dealers and I think I told everyone one of them I love them and asked them to marry me.  

That will work for me .

Thanks

 

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15 hours ago, CT70 said:

I usually play in my local casino where they offer only preshuffled cards. The cards come to the table in a clear plastic container of 8 decks.The cards are very carefully taken out of the box by the dealer, and offered to one of the players to "cut". There is absolutely no shuffling whatsoever. The dealer then pulls the top card out, let's say if the card happens to be a 5, then dealer counts 5 cards out and throws them in the discard tray. The dealer then puts the rest of the cards in the card dispenser and begins dealing.

Why am I telling you this? Because recently, I have been playing online and they use only 6 decks of "hand" shuffled cards. There is no shufflemaster. However the cards still come out exactly as they would if they were preshuffled. Even the ties occur at the same spots that you would expect them to come out in preshuffled shoes. Does anyone have any thoughts on how the hell they manage to keep the cards in order even after a hand shuffle. It blows my mind as to how they are doing it.

Thoughts welcome.

CT70

 

 

Hi CT70

I would be keen to know how you know when the ties will occur in either game

I always understood that they were absolutely not predictable

Thanks in advance Pando

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Hi Pando,

Yes, they are absolutely predictable, not to the degree of a an MC or an LC event, but predictable enough to make some good bets. Once you get the hang of it. I will put up a few sample toteboard and explain the details soon. The key though, is you need to be seeing some ties early on in the shoe to be sure that ties are popping in the shoe at hand.Sometimes you will hardly see ties and other times there are 10 to 15 ties in a standard shoe. You will only need to bet on a few of them, the real obvious ones with the strongest triggers. I will explain later what I mean. Remember, you only need to win 1 out of 8 to be ahead, BUT you can easily do 2 or 3 out of 8 once you get the hang of it. The larger your standard unit size is, the more it may make sense to play a tie "occasionally" and only if you are ahead in the shoe. For example, if your unit size is $50, and if you are expecting a tie hand, then add $5 to your P or B bet (making it $55) and put $5 (10%) on tie, so essentially you are somewhat covering yourself if the tie does not hit, but your bet still wins. Hopefully you are in a position where you have upwards of a 50% HR where the extra 10% that you are adding to your bet and betting the tie won't hurt you, yet the reward is 8 units.

I will take some screen shots of some tote boards and make markings of where and why the tie occurs. But, just so you know, the tie occurs to confuse the hell out of you when you have already predetermined the side on which you are going to bet on. Here is a simple example, start of a shoe, P181, You haven't seen anything on the player side yet except a 1iar, you don't have any history yet, "most" players would bet Banker on the next hand, it's very obvious. This is a scenario where you could expect a tie,   

Details to come.....

CT70

Edited by ECD
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My casino uses angel preshuffled cards put through shufflers (don't know if they are shufflemaster as you cant see them)

I also play online at Black Orchid / Celtic Casino.

They use the same feed as many other online casinos from Costa Rica.

It is live dealer 6 deck hand shuffled

I actually do better at my casino than what I do online

I suppose the shufflers would have the ability to put the cards in any order if the casino wanted that but the shoes that come out have pretty good biases that are easy to pick.

So it sort of shoots down the preshuffled vs hand shuffled myth as well.  

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Check this one out:

B113(PPTP)11326111331111221(T)11131418(BBBBBBTBTTB)1(T)1(T)3112321

I played this at Crown Casino Perth today and taking careful note of the ties I noticed they seemed to come at some very strategic positions whether it be by luck or pre-determined but I think it was just luck

Firstly the ties were clumped very tightly towards the end of the shoe - 5 ties in 10 hands

Secondly 2 of them came at positions where it made me think twice about my betting decisions.

Thankfully due to CT70 I was aware of them:

221(T) - I was looking at betting CT70's famous 2211 trigger but the tie came and made me think twice but I ignored it and the bet won.

1314181(T) - towards the end of the banker SS I was starting to think when I should cash in and abandon it. Just when the tie came I was going to abandon it and then I thought go with it as this could be a trap to make me pull the bet or bet player - I doubled on banker and it won so I abandoned SS after that which turned out to be perfect.

So some really good info here on ties by CT - thanks

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