XDN

@rious Great, glad you joined! If you need more shoes just post the request in the private forums and I can send you some more.

Oops didn't notice this is the public side..... @rious consider the above 50 shoes from my personal collection as a gift and incentive to join the forum as a paying member where you will receive access to Stats For Profits. As @trillion said contains 1000's of shoes you can practice play and analyze with many different bet selection methods.

Team... Keith has said that SFP has an problem and they can't add new users at this time. @rious is new so he wasn't added before the problem started. In the mean time @rious attached are 50 shoes from 5 dimes...maybe 6 months old. I collected them myself so i'm not sharing SFP shoes. If/when you need more, just let me know. Shoes.txt

@Keith Smith I'm in, booked my flight and hotel last night. Really looking forward to it!

Thanks for the info! I didn't think about topping bets so that would work. I'll talk to the boss (wife) and try to work it out.

Hey Keith, i'm giving some serious thought to joining the weekend crawl with you guys and since this would be my first trip to vegas and a newb to the Bacc Crawl I had a couple of questions. 1. My BR isn't large, what table (minimums) do you guys play? Would I need a large BR to play at the same tables as you guys? I'm probably only able to play flat bet greens at this point, not sure if that is high enough to hang and learn from you guys. 2. What is your normal schedule? Meaning what times do you guys normally start playing on Saturday/Sunday etc... 3. What would be the recommendation for a reasonable hotel? Thanks for the info!

Jack, my suggestion is Go to the download section and get the "Nor Baccarat Manual" and the F2 manual. Learn those first, those are the building blocks of what everyone is doing here. Keep in mind 1. Nor & F2 are not "systems" that you use to play through an entire shoe. They USED to be, but thanks to Oz and others, most folks on BTC are now perusing methods that follow the shoe so we aren't using negative progressions. 2. DON'T USE NEGATIVE PROGRESSIONS NO MATTER WHAT THE MANUALS OR ANY POSTS THAT YOU READ SAYS. If you can't beat a shoe with good bet selection you will not beat it with a negative progression. 3. Use the Stats for Profits database to practice play until you can learn what S40, OTBL etc... mean in a shoe. Understand that you will likeley play mroe than 1 "system" during a single shoe. Lastly from my experience, it took me a while to understand what is going on here so be patient and in my opinion, if you can consistently break even you are beating 90% of the people who play baccarat.

Sounds good Kevin, I'm happy to pitch in!

Couple of thoughts 1. We should set a time expectation....I don't know how much work you have done Kevin but if we are bootstrapping and testing rules, this will be a more long term project. Changes and tests/re-test take time 2. I don't know how to solve the "if you don't participate you don't get it" problem but i'm not a fan of that. There was a big controversy about sharing Norms FTS a while back and while I respect the decision, the shame of hiding Norms system is that the FTS knowledge will be lost when the holders of it pass on. We're not all going to live forever. 3. Offsite development and testing, probably a good idea until we can form a solid theory with preliminary testing.

I'm in.

Hi Bill, i'd be happy to help you get it posted if you need any "tech support" if you need it.

I thought this was a private side thread. Keith if you want to delete my post, I can repost the file in the private side. Sorry about that, no harm intended.

This document was in one of Norms posts on the forum from 2010. Is this still relevant or did Norm progress beyond this? Look forward to seeing Norms FTS rules! Norms SAP rules.doc

This example will be using the "3 & 4 Event Length Pattern" groups of data below. "4 Event Length Pattern (4ELP)" = A pattern made up of 4 confirmed events. Examples: bpbp(b1,1,1,1) OR pppbbpb(p3,2,1,1) OR pbppppbbbb(P1,1,4,4) Number of Events: 3 | Number of Events: 4 Count:999 (b) pbp (b) >> b | Count:461 (p) bpbp (b) >> p Count:980 (p) bpb (p) >> b | Count:453 (b) pbpb (p) >> p Count:978 (b) pbp (b) >> p | Count:415 (p) bpbp (b) >> b Count:951 (p) bpb (p) >> p | Count:409 (b) pbpb (p) >> b How to read this mess Count:461 (p) bpbp (b) >> p This next screen shot explains 1 anomaly i've found in the SFP database, there may be more, hopefully several more. I scanned all the SFP "real" shoes (approx 1,650 hand entered casino shoes, the rest are computer generated). Then I counted how many times each pattern showed up with that patterns next bet and ranked them from the most common to the least common.. The screenshot below shows the top 4 patterns for 3 & 4 ELP with the patterns next bet. As you would expect the single events dominate the ranking. *1st Screenshot below* - Using the 3 event data PBP - With the next bet of banker showed up in the SFP database 999 times. PBP - With the next bet of player showed up in the SFP database 978 times If we analyze the single events (pbp/bpb) in the 3 ELP category, we see nothing exciting...Normal baccarat statistics, banker is slightly more common than player. But look at the 4 ELP events.... in the SFP database, player is the more common event than banker and has an advantage? That's not normal statistics. Have a close look.... Weird....banker should have a slight advantage but the SFP database shows for bpbp and pbpb that player does ??? Wierd.... Final notes Is this the HG ... HELL NO! Is it helpful HELL YEeee.... maybe depends on how you use it. Will there be shoes/streaks of shoes where the stats above don't work...yep..that's baccarat. So above...we've discovered that in the SFP "real" shoes that 4 single events are opposite normal baccarat stats. Whatever your betting system is, this might be helpful to confirm or cancel the bet you're system has chosen. When your in a shoe you might mentally note that this pattern was statistically opposite in SFP... **Final final note - I'm not advocating using this to bet...i'm just reporting something interesting I've mined from SFP. Personally, i'm going to try to mentally notice what happens when pbpb or bpbp comes along. This is such a different kind of betting statistic/trigger/helper that we should be cautious until we can see it in action over many many shoes. Questions are welcome....

As soon as the boss (my 14 month old) takes a nap, ill post an example.

At this point it's raw data but...take this 3 Event series for example Count:525 (p) bbpb (p) >> p = The 5th most common pattern for the 3 event patterns.....BUT (p) bbpb (p) >> b is not even in the top 10 Pretty interesting....is it reliable enough to be exploitable? It does come from the real data in SFP....so maybe? It might be interesting to run it through some shoes to see if betting player after this pattern is an advantage play.

I've been doing some pattern analysis on the SFP shoes. As the title says, this is probably in the category of interesting...but is it helpful? Maybe, maybe not...you be the judge. I've got a database of 1,647 shoes, containing all the "real" shoes y'all have entered into SFP plus a few 5 dimes shoes. Randomly generated shoes are not included. I was curious to know, what are the top 10 most common *confirmed* event patterns, including the next result? Some of them are obvious. The 4 most common events at each length are almost always the singles but even those show some differences with the next result, see line 1 and 3 in the 3 events category. After the singles it gets a little more interesting. I probably should just spend my time trying to beat the kitchen table ..but this was fun analysis project to code up, and hopefully helpful. Number of shoes: 1647 Number of Events: 3 Confirm Events Confirm Next Play Count:999 (b) pbp (b) >> b (b) pbp (b) b - Next play banker is more common for pbp Count:981 (p) bpb (p) >> b Count:978 (b) pbp (b) >> p (b) pbp (b) p - Next play player is less common for pbp Count:951 (p) bpb (p) >> p Count:525 (p) bbpb (p) >> p Count:512 (p) bpbb (p) >> b Count:494 (b) pbpp (b) >> b Count:488 (b) pbpp (b) >> p Count:485 (b) ppbp (b) >> b Count:484 (b) pbbp (b) >> p Number of Events: 4 Confirm Events Confirm Next Play Count:461 (p) bpbp (b) >> p (p) bpbp (b) p Count:453 (b) pbpb (p) >> p Count:415 (p) bpbp (b) >> b Count:409 (b) pbpb (p) >> b Count:235 (b) pbppb (p) >> b Count:232 (p) bpbpp (b) >> b Count:225 (p) bppbp (b) >> b Count:224 (p) bbpbp (b) >> b Count:221 (p) bpbbp (b) >> p Count:220 (p) bpbbp (b) >> b Number of Events: 5 Count:206 (p) bpbpb (p) >> b Count:201 (p) bpbpb (p) >> p Count:196 (b) pbpbp (b) >> p Count:175 (b) pbpbp (b) >> b Count:120 (b) pbppbp (b) >> b Count:114 (b) pbpbpp (b) >> p Count:113 (p) bpbpbb (p) >> b Count:107 (b) pbpbbp (b) >> b Count:105 (b) pbbpbp (b) >> b Count:104 (p) bpbbpb (p) >> b Number of Events: 6 Count:92 (p) bpbpbp (b) >> b Count:92 (b) pbpbpb (p) >> b Count:91 (p) bpbpbp (b) >> p Count:82 (b) pbpbpb (p) >> p Count:57 (p) bpbpbpp (b) >> b Count:55 (p) bpbbpbp (b) >> b Count:54 (b) pbpbppb (p) >> b Count:53 (b) pbpbppb (p) >> p Count:51 (p) bpbpbbp (b) >> p Count:49 (b) pbpbbpb (p) >> p Number of Events: 7 Count:44 (p) bpbpbpb (p) >> b Count:43 (b) pbpbpbp (b) >> b Count:41 (p) bpbpbpb (p) >> p Count:39 (b) pbpbpbp (b) >> p Count:30 (p) bpbpbpbb (p) >> p Count:29 (p) bpbppbpb (p) >> b Count:28 (b) pbpbbpbp (b) >> b Count:27 (p) bbpbpbpb (p) >> b Count:25 (b) pbpbppbp (b) >> p Count:25 (b) pbpbpbpp (b) >> p Number of Events: 8 Count:20 (p) bpbpbpbp (b) >> p Count:19 (p) bpbpbpbp (b) >> b Count:17 (b) pbpbpbpb (p) >> p Count:16 (p) bbpbpbpbp (b) >> b Count:15 (p) bpbppbpbp (b) >> p Count:13 (b) pbpbppbpb (p) >> b Count:13 (p) bppbpbpbp (b) >> p Count:12 (p) bpbbpbpbp (b) >> b Count:12 (b) ppbpbpbpb (p) >> b Count:12 (p) bpbpbpbbp (b) >> b Number of Events: 9 Count:11 (p) bpbpbpbpb (p) >> b Count:10 (p) bbpbpbpbpb (p) >> p Count:10 (p) bpbpbpbpb (p) >> p Count:9 (p) bppbpbpbpb (p) >> b Count:8 (p) bpbppbpbpb (p) >> b Count:8 (p) bpbpbpbpbb (p) >> p Count:7 (b) pbppbpbpbp (b) >> b Count:7 (b) pbpbppbpbp (b) >> p Count:7 (b) pbpbpbpbp (b) >> p Count:7 (p) bpbpbppbppb (p) >> p Number of Events: 10 Count:7 (p) bpbpbpbpbp (b) >> p Count:6 (b) pbbpbpbpbpb (p) >> p Count:5 (b) pbpbpbpbpb (p) >> p Count:5 (p) bppbpbpbpbp (b) >> b Count:5 (b) ppbpbpbpbpb (p) >> b Count:5 (p) bpbppbpbpbp (b) >> b Count:4 (b) pbpbpbpbbpb (p) >> p Count:4 (b) pbpbppbpbpb (p) >> p Count:4 (p) bpbpbpppbpbp (b) >> b Count:4 (p) bppbpbpbpbp (b) >> p

Published on Feb 18, 2017 - Little public service here, watch the dealers fingers/hands VERY closely at the 20 second mark...make up your own mind. I watched the guy on the lefts full video (warning NSFW language). He has some interesting ideas that maybe the first finger flicks are a signal to someone running the cameras to alter/mask the video. He doesn't go into how they could know the cards but, since this is a clear shoe, maybe they mark the cards with invisible ink or a pattern that can be read by an overhead camera but not our eyes via video. It could have been a mistake, but it seems like a super specific mistake...but..have a look, make up your own mind.

Thanks much avion. I call it the blue casino since the tables and carpet is blue. Did you try the steak sammich at The Potowatomi?

Hey Team, I'm looking to gather as many practice shoes as possible for the "Costa Rica/VIG/Blue" casino. I've entered about 10 on SFP under 5dimes/Las Vegas Casino. Since this casino feed is used at many on line casinos, Could you let me know how you post it on Stats For Profits? Also, if you have any you could email/PM me i'd appreciate it. But hopefully there are quite a few on SFP. Appreciate it!!

THAT is one of the best posts I've read here. Good stuff, thank you!

Hey Trillion, I went down there last night and there was one guy playing bacc on 2 open tables. Thats something like 15 open seats?? I guess they know what they are doing but you'd think they would open a $10 table to get some people playing. Instead they paid one dealer to stand there doing nothing They hand shuffle the cards and the one shoe I saw was great an old school S40 shoe where the bias stayed the same the entire shoe. I wish it wasn't $25 or I would have played S40 on it. All 1's with 4x2's, 3x3's and 1x5. S40 M3 would have gotten at least +20 on it. The more experienced guys would probably have got +40. So it may be a good place to play if you play $25 units. My wife played the "parachute" method and won a unit Parachute method baccarat is very popular with the Asian crowd (my wife is Thai). Here is how you play. 1. Jump in on the table. 2. Glance at the board. 3. Drop a chip, pull the cards and hope you survive the landing.

Haha no kidding. I still like to play 5s or 10s because I'm not hitting 50%+ on my bet selection consistently, so I'll steer clear but... 25 dollar = high limit is the same thing as saying government intelligence!

I did notice a reasonable amount of repeats at the French Lick automated roulette machine. Might start doing this while studying baccarat more on paper.

25 limit in Evanspatch? Wow. Didn't know there were any high rollers here/there (maybe enough meth dealers to keep the table full?)