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It's important to work on your cognitive biases to. When i'm playing, I fall prey to #5 and #8 below, making a choice and not responding to new information quickly enough. Both of these have to be overcome to read what the shoe is doing and "playing in the moment."

Hey brad...with all my focus on bet selection systems, I needed to re-focus on the basics. Played 5dimes today and got one of those shoes with 2's, 3's and 4's (few 1's and no 6+s) that have been killing me. So I played "everything but the 5's" OTBLM3 and went +5 on the shoe. I'm happy to say this is the first time in a long time i've played a shoe like this in the positive. Thanks for the OTBL reminder. Played another shoe that started out with 3's, 4's and 5's so I started playing 221 repeats. Closed out 3 frames when the shoe switched to S40M3. Made up the last couple of 221 bets and went +15 on the whole shoe (+10 221 repeats, +5 S40M3) Since i'm just a year in, and still just breaking even playing, I consider myself a junior level player now. I've been so focused on the more advanced bet selections that I forgot to mind the basics first. Good lesson for a junior/mid level player I think. So...lesson for the day... 1. Read the shoe duhhhhhhhh (joking a bit because Oz/Way2/Avion/Brad/Pando etc.. have been saying this over and over and over and over). 2. Master the basics as the foundation for the more advance bet selection techniques. 3. GOTO 1 Lesson for all...work on your cognitive biases. I was falling prey to #5 and #8 below... basically making a choice and sticking with it too long. Both these are counterproductive to reading and adapting to what is happening in the shoe. Sometimes i'm a freakin' BLOCKHEAD and won't change what i'm doing. Going to concentrate on being more mentally flexible and read the shoe in the moment. This is a cool infographic...hope it helps!

That's the kind of shoe I've been getting lately at 5 dimes and I can't follow them, it's been discouraging. I wish I knew how to read the shoes like you guys and Norm. It seems like the biases are so short. Mdb doesn't appear to be any good. I see the 211 and 311, you'd think it's going s40 but then back to 2s and 3s. Oh well, keep plugging ant keep trying to learn :-)

BacPlayer - Heres a good thread...again playing on paper first will help you understand whats happening :-)

Addition>> Stay the heck away from negative progressions until you can hit better than 51% wins flat betting ESPECIALLY starting out.

Welcome! I've only been here a year or so and i'm just starting to have a clue :-) In my opinion, the most important thing to understand when starting out is you cannot play any of the the methods strait through the whole shoe. As a new player, that will only bring you big losses and discouragement. Definitely learn the NOR systems and play them on PAPER until you see this. There is no 1 system, most shoes exhibit multiple patterns that can be exploited by a particular system for a short time. The idea here is to identify them, play them for a couple of bets and wait to identify the next pattern. Another way to think about it is, the systems here are not trying to teach you to win every bet in the shoe. They are trying to identify the few "best bets" in the shoe and win 51% of those. There are experts here who do much better than 51% but they have years of experience. As a new player, if you play break even while you are learning you are doing great! In closing, I said this to another person a while back. If you memorized Michael Jordans "How I play basketball" book, cover to cover, would you be able to play like him? It's the same here, read what the forum has to offer, ask a bunch of questions, play a bunch of shoes on paper and a little in the casino to start getting that practical experience. Best of luck!

Great post Pando! I got stung by this very thing last night. I had never thought of the concept of a "weak" trigger. But I got a shoe that had a couple of 3's and 1 4 in the first 1/3 of the shoe. The first 4 was just a 4...after that the shoe was very weak on repeats, started getting sporadic 1's, 2's and 3's that never went to 4. Thank you for sharing your illustration of a weak trigger is VERY enlightening!!

I've seen a player do this in a previous town I lived in. The runs at the casino where we played *mostly* ended at 6 or 7 IAR and most nights he seemed to do pretty well. He had a progression, i'm not sure what it was but it included a lot of black and purple chips! BUT I saw him eat it more than one time waiting for a run to end. I was at a table one night playing a shoe that had multiple long runs, he bet a progression against at least 3 runs to end and lost his progression. It looked to be $5000 in losses or so. However, I didn't talk to him much, he may have had a bankroll where 5k didn't matter. He was a sharp dude who always played under control so I suspect a 5k loss was within his bankroll and plan but still....man you could have 1 bad session using this that wipes out 10 good sessions. Saw a shoe maybe a week ago at 5 dimes that had 10+ 3's that never went to 4 not a single 4 in the shoe. That would eat up a BR pretty fast. I kicked myself for not playing 221 against that shoe. All those beautiful 3's haha :-)

Keith has also made it available in the downloads section of the forum http://forum.beatthecasino.com/index.php?/files/ SAP..I asked about a "Manual" a while back. I'm not sure one exists in a book format. However if you search "sap" be sure and check out the thread called "SAP Exploits." You will also find threads that have a SAP spreadsheet that helps you keep score (and helps you to understand). BTW: Brad01 has a gift for making the complex ... understandable so read his stuff about SAP too

Keith and/or Mike. If I put too much info in this thread, my apologies. If you'd like to delete the thread or move it to the private side that's cool by me, I don't want to cause any issues. Thank you!!

Avion - I call this casino (from the screenshot) the "Red" casino. 5 Dimes calls it "Rebate Live Casino." 5 Dimes also has the "Blue Casino" which is the faster one. The "Blue Casino" is called "Las Vegas" casino on 5 dimes. Ya the red one has a longer timer and they don't kick you out as fast. The "Blue Casino" does indeed kick you out after about 7 hands if you don't bet. But like you said, you can just log back in. You're right about MDB and the "Red" casino. douglasb - WOW!! Cool that you figured it out! Can you guys imagine jumping in that shoe and playing 2-2-1 ? I'm just starting with 221 but am I correct in saying that run alone would be 9 series for 45 units? WOW!! Of course a run like that is like winning the lottery but it's fun to imagine :-)

Pando - This is the 5dimes.eu "Rebate Live Casino" I think many online casinos use this "Rebate" casino. For example this casino is also available through betonline.

Yaaa soooo this just happened 7.9.2016 about 11pm cdt. 19 Bankers in a Row (screenshot attached) and yep.... I missed it. Best run i've ever seen right after I went to give my 3 month old girl a bottle Oh well, my daughter is most important! (BTW: Anyone know what the Martingale progression on 19 IAR would be starting with a nickel ($5 chip)? I think it was brad01 who said Martingale is the only system where you can win 99% of the time and still loose. Here's the proof)

If the link above didn't work I'll repost them in Sunday. But you should be able to see them if you follow the link I posted earlier today

Sorry about that..the link below should get you to the updated post and diagrams. I had an error in my first post and had the admins delete it which is what caused the error. Let me know if you have any further problems or questions about this post. Thank you. Click The Link Below

(Sorry for the Duplicate Post, Admins: Please delete the previous Thread thank you!) I've had some requests to explain how I use the Bitcoin option on 5 Dimes. Here are some diagrams and screenshots that I hope will help. You will have to do some research and figure out how to set up the accounts on your own, but if you get stuck just drop me a line. It took me about 3-4 weeks to set up the accounts and get money transferred. When you set up ACH transfers there is a waiting period of 3-5 business days. Since i'm using an intermediate account I have to do this 2 times, but I am ok with it for the extra security it provides. I wanted to set this up so neither 5 dimes nor coinbase.com could get access to my personal accounts. If you have questions i'm happy to help. The biggest question i'm coming across is the "magic" of converting bitcoin to "local currency" USD in my case. You set up a bitcoin AND USD wallet at Coinbase.Com. Coinbase will convert your Bitcoin to USD and let you buy bitcoin with the usd you transfer in for a 1% fee. There are other sites with higher fees so watch out. 1% seems pretty reasonable to me. To get USD to coinbase...you can set up ACH transfers. I didn't want coinbase to have ACH rights into my personal bank account so I set up an "intermediate account." Coinbase can only talk to my intermediate account..... then I transfer from my intermediate account into my personal account. Yes..it's a little complicated...but this way, neither 5 dimes or coinbase has access into my personal accounts. So for me the separation is worth it. Deposit using Bitcoin on 5 Dimes Copy/Paste the Bitcoin address generated in 5 dimes into the "Send Funds Form" on coinbase. You don't need to enter an amount, the Bitcoin address takes care of all that. To Receive funds, click on "Wallet Address" to get the address of your bitcoin wallet.. Copy/Paste it into the bitcoin Payout Request form. Paste your bitcoin address into this field and request a withdraw amount.

Just uploaded some diagrams...have a look

5Dimes payout with bitcoin no problems. If anyone wants to know how i'm set up i'll be happy to help. It takes a couple of weeks to set it all up, but NO FEES! Did I mention NO FEES? Requested $100 (minimum payout) bitcoin payout from 5dimes on Monday, and recieved it tonight (Wednesday). They advertise 24-48 hours to process, and I did chat online with a rep tonight asking if I did it correctly. About 15 minutes after chatting with the online rep, I received my confirmation email and about 1 hour after I returned the confirmation email, the bitcoin was transferred to my bitcoin wallet on coinbase.com Observations: 1. Once I contacted the online chat rep, the payout was processed very quickly. Not sure if that is normal or necessary as i was still within the 24-48 hour window. But i'll probably do this in the future, it's likely they don't get many bitcoin transactions or they just have someone run them a couple of times per week. I didn't get any hassle or feel like they were attempting to delay the payout. I just think they just needed reminded it was there, it's probably a manual process for them. 2. NO FEES (If u deposit with bitcoin, there are no fees to payout with bitcoin) - Just checked my 5dimes account and only 100 was removed. 3. Confirmation email - They do ask for your username AND password. Ya...it's a little wierd to send your password in an email...but just do it and change your password after the transaction. You should be using a disposable password for a gambling site anyway If anyone wants help setting up this up, just drop me a line. You'll need to do some studying on your own, but i'm happy to help. WARNING! Shameless Plug - If any of you are going to sign up to use bitcoin and want to use coinbase.com as your wallet (it's one of the most respected ones, and has very low fees, but do your own research), let me know. If I refer you and if you buy $100 bitcoin, I can get $10 bitcoin for the referral (2 units for me...I play nickels most of the time, just very very slowly building the BR)......Now back to your regularly scheduled forum.

Hi Brad...so are you using the last 2 events *mostly* ? I remember one of your posts a while back that you were using 2 event triggers and from the shoe above it looks like that's what you're using. The first 2 "trigger events" you have 32 = OTBL 323 = OTBL Question 1: I get the 32. But on the 323, is this a 3 event trigger or are you just using the 23 events? Question 2: Dovetails with Q1, how often do you re-evaluate which system? For example.... 212 = Current Trigger...... Next event is a 3 (2123) Do you re-evaluate the system you are using on each event? In this example when we get that 3 event, the last 3 events are 123 which are a no go signal. Would you stop playing on this and see where the shoe goes? Thanks again !! I used to play your 2 event triggers and I seem to remember doing ok for a new guy haha. But I just wanted to know if you are using 2 events, 3 events or a combination based on reading the shoe at hand.

.....6 yep..correct....not 8... Typo.

Great post thank you!

That's the online casino that I've been playing and was discussing in my earlier post. Even though you see them shuffle on camera, I've been wondering if those fancy shoes can generate a specific card order. Last night for example, both tables (at the same time) had almost all 1's and 2's. Brad provided a good analysis/voice of reason to my post :-). But I've noticed both tables at this casino seem to deliver shoes that are very similar, at the same time. I mentioned both shoes were heavy on 1's and 2's last night but I played about 9:45pm. Earlier in the week, I noticed they brought out new cards (8 new packs, shuffled at the table) at 9:30pm on one of the tables. After some searching on BTC I saw many Ellis posts that said new cards, hand shuffled, are biased to S40/OTBL most of the time. I think this is the most likely explanation for the 1's and 2's I saw at the same time....HOWEVER the screenshot in my post above is uncanny. Green button....I've seen them press that at the beginning of the a new game. It's a guess, but it could be some kind of marker button to signify starting a new game. I did some reading, shuffle master does make a shoe that shuffles cards (and probably could change the order when cards are dealt), but it looks like this is the model that only records what cards are being dealt. Do a google search on "Shufflemaster Baccarat Shoe" it's an interesting read. The thing that still puts a question in my mind is ... This is all software. They know how we are betting before they ever draw the cards. IF (and this is a huge if) they know that, and the shoe could present cards in a non-linear order, they can alter the outcome. If you watch the "cheat" video above.... The deck wouldn't have to be re-shuffled to alter the outcome. Meaning if the shoe "knows" what the current 6 cards are and can alter the order they are delivered (again watch the video above). They could most likely control how the cards are drawn out of the shoe. For example, table bets heavy on banker. First draw, banker pulls 9, 2nd card in shoe is 3, 3rd is a King (banker would get natural 9). If the shuffle master could present the 3rd card to player on the 2nd play, .... Player draws King instead of 3, then the banker gets the 3 and reduces to 2. Player has an almost guaranteed win and the table (which bet heavy on banker) looses to the side with the most cash on it. If they only did this 25% of the time in each shoe, when the conditions were right, this would boost the house take. (Sorry I got the draw order wrong, I'm not retyping it haha) Ok ok...tinfoil hat stuff right? But I write software, this is all possible IF the shoe has the robotics to do what the "cheat" video shows above. Software can easily monitor the realtime stats/bets on the shoe. Place your bets>>>Last bets>>>Calculate stats while the dealer waits for the computer to say "go" (and the computer calculates how to deliver the next few cards during this delay) >>> shoe presents cards to the dealer in a certain order. Personally, after it seemed that my hit rate plummeted at this casino, I started playing the "rebate live casino" they have a nice, plexiglass shoe that is totally transparent. The cards is what they is. But the voice of reason says, it's more likely my lack of playing skills than electronic shoes. Once I realized they are serving up shoes with lots of 2's, started playing "Everything but the 4's" (check out brads post for those 2 and 3 heavy shoes) all was well. :-) Even with all that...my screenshot above....just caught my eye. These events are very common and Brad provided and excellent analysis on how....even though they look similar to the eye, they are very different when we analyze them with the different systems we learn here. But let's keep our eyes open and look for similar shoes at the same time on both tables at this casino.

Cool!!

So i'm playing 5 dimes this morning, doing ok thanks to BTC! The point of this post is check out my screenshot. This is the start of 2 separate shoes on 2 different tables at the same time. These shoes both started at 11:00am (ish) CST. They are practically identical up the the 13th play!!! Swap the position of the 2 banker and single player and they are identical. Now...I see the dealers hand shuffle the cards and it APPEARS to be a random situation but this is not the first time I've noticed similar shoes...maybe just out of sequence a bit. The only odd thing I've noticed about them is they have this unusually fancy shoe. It's not a regular, plastic type of shoe it appears to have some electronics in it. At first I figured it's just got a scanner so they can record and have proof of the shoes. But after this... I saw an online video about how easy it is for casinos to pull cards out of sequence. Could these electronic shoes be altering the way the cards are pulled? I'm not saying this is the case with 5 dimes, it might be totally random but wow what are the odds of the 2 shoes above starting practically identically? An

ArkSobo, Well unfortunately I haven't made any wd's yet I've done 2 $250 usd deposits. I'm playing $5 units and have my bankroll up to $600. I'm still new to this game and feel fortunate that i'm on the positive side. I've played probably 20 shoes there. My beginning was kind of rough (thus the 2nd deposit of $250) but in the past couple of weeks, i've been able to go back positive. Being only a few months into the methods on BTC, I think it just took time and repetition. The swing back to the positive side it pretty recent so maybe i'm learning something from this board haha! For me, a newb, I considered this online training and I think I am seeing some results. Anyway...back to bitcoin...I didn't see in the rules where there was a delay on bitcoin payout, but there always tends to be fine print. I may try to wd $50 to answer your question. Your second question on how much it takes to get banned I hope I am able to find out hahaha