Maverick compared to S40

[johnnycs1]

Hi All,

Just wondering if someone that is playing Maverick, could give a comparrison to System 40, as far as what we have so far ( patiently awaiting final System 40 manual ). In terms of winning dollars of course !

And for that matter, Maverick compared to any other method here ?

Is the $1000 necessary or justified over what we have here already ?

Also....has ADN mechanical, especially for newbies , gotten a final blessing ? Whats the lastest on ADN?

Thank You

[Audionut]

Wow... a lot of questions there, Johnny... I'll give you my opinion on spending $1000 on Maverick....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

No offense meant to those of you who might of spent $1000 for the system... I'm sure you have gotten your money back and then some with play...BUT...

way not worth it in MY opinion... take your $1000, and just play RD1 with the 1211234 negative progression until 4 losses in a row and go OTR until the first loss.... a GREAT way to play in my opinion...

[BaCcArAt KiNg]

Hi All,

Just wondering if someone that is playing Maverick, could give a comparrison to System 40, as far as what we have so far ( patiently awaiting final System 40 manual ). In terms of winning dollars of course !

And for that matter, Maverick compared to any other method here ?

Both can give you winning units between +4 to +10 without breaking a sweat only if you have a VERY GOOD EXIT STRATEGY.

Both systems are the opposite of each other.

The weakness of Maverick is the strength of S40 while the weakness of S40 is the strength of Maverick.

Is the $1000 necessary or justified over what we have here already ?

Lots of systems here can give you a conservative +2 to +4 units per shoe.

No need to shell out $1000 for an approach that basically uses Repeat bets. Too expensive.

Also....has ADN mechanical, especially for newbies , gotten a final blessing ? Whats the lastest on ADN?

Better if you customize your own approach using a few of the system here.

That's what I did.

There is no such thing as a mechanical system.

I've won a total of 150 shoes on the last 15 days WITHOUT A LOSS and I tell you what I am using is not a mechanical system.

Focus on your exit strategy per shoe and you will achieve what I am achieving.

BK

[ECD]

With Mav Ultimate you are basically working off an OR type count except that you are counting RD1 vs the opposite of RD1. The color coding is fine but a lot of extra work. A +- RD1 count would accomplish the same result.

As I said before, I think it is a reasonable approach. I think it is really the same concept as O/R wherein we bet O (S40) when the count is + (O) favorable and F2,3 when the count is - ® favorable.

But what about the many shoes that favor neither O or R wherein the count, whether an O/R count or an RD1 count. keeps reversing (keeps crossing 0) ? The count hovers 0. You are wrong if you bet + or RD1 and you are wrong if you bet - anti RD1. This is a huge and growing shoe type. S40A covers this shoe type very nicely with OTB4L but what does Maverick do?

As I told Mark from the beginning, he needs to add OTB4L to his quiver. He's leaving a very major shoe type completely uncovered. And it is a shoe type that OTB4L not only covers but takes advantage of.

As I recently declared, in recent years, I have won more shoes with OTB4L than with all other systems combined.

This is because Neutral (OTB4L) shoes are a growing shoe type. The casinos strive, through their card preps, to present this shoe type because it is their most profitable shoe type because this shoe type beats both chop and streak systems which covers 99% of all systems. OTB4L is the ONLY Neutral shoe system and nobody else plays it, including Maverick. I think Mark would be doing his students a big favor by going back and incorporating OTB4L in his overall Maverick scheme.

As far as charging $1000, yes, it seems a lot compared to us but ONLY when you campare to us. Its not a lot to charge the average know nothing street player. I, myself, sold a hell of a lot more manuals back when I charged $3000 per manual than I do now at $200 per manual. We sold literally thousands of manuals at the $2000 to $3000 price. And when the next manual came along it was't free. Lots of people like Tom, bought every manual I ever wrote, about 13 in total not counting BJ.

See, a $200 manual, by definition has NO credibility. The general public takes the attitude: "If its that good, why so cheap?" The fact is, I sold more manuals at $3000 per copy than at all other prices put together. But see, today, for me, its a hobby. Because it sure as hell isn't a business as it once was.

So, is $1000 too high? It depends on your point of view. Yes, it probably is too high if you are coming from this forum. But to teach the average player from scratch, a very major chore, $1000 is probably too low. I think Mark would actually get more new students at a $3000 price tag. And don't forget inflation! Back when I sold at $3000 that was much closer to $6000 in today's dollars.

Back in those days my record sales was $667,000 in 2 weeks. Won't be seeing those days again. But perhaps now you can see why Keith is going back to manual sales instread of forum membership sales. This forum will become essentially the support backup for manual sales. Perhaps that is as it should be.

[BaCcArAt KiNg]

hi BacKing may i ask did you played system40 alone or S40A?

Like what I said on my previous posts, I abandoned S40/A a long time ago because this system struggles on multi-trend shoes.

In my country of play, S40/A is not a good system to use. Multi-trend shoes are common occurrences to us in Asia.

What I did this year is I created my own 1) approach, 2) exit strategy and kept my 3) negative prog to three.

My combinations up to present are perfect. Zero loss. 100% win rate.

I use the simple Opposite and Repeat bets only. I have my own trigger switch.

You'll be amazed on the simplicity of these two. You will not see/read this on any forum.

If you could master these, you can beat any shoe.

My exit strategy is +10 units. Whenever I hit this, I quit.

My customized negative progression is 124. This is not the typical 124 that you know 'cause I designed it to be conservative.

I start with a base bet of 3-unit and ends my session goal at 5-units.

My session goal per day is +50 units. On the average, I hit this in less than three hours.

I do not finish an entire shoe anymore because it exposes me to a higher risk of loss.

On the average, I only play 15-20 hands (1st column).

BK

[John12345]

As far as charging $1000, yes, it seems a lot compared to us but ONLY when you campare to us. Its not a lot to charge the average know nothing street player. I, myself, sold a hell of a lot more manuals back when I charged $3000 per manual than I do now at $200 per manual. We sold literally thousands of manuals at the $2000 to $3000 price. And when the next manual came along it was't free. Lots of people like Tom, bought every manual I ever wrote, about 13 in total not counting BJ.

See, a $200 manual, by definition has NO credibility. The general public takes the attitude: "If its that good, why so cheap?" The fact is, I sold more manuals at $3000 per copy than at all other prices put together. But see, today, for me, its a hobby. Because it sure as hell isn't a business as it once was.

So, is $1000 too high? It depends on your point of view. Yes, it probably is too high if you are coming from this forum. But to teach the average player from scratch, a very major chore, $1000 is probably too low. I think Mark would actually get more new students at a $3000 price tag. And don't forget inflation! Back when I sold at $3000 that was much closer to $6000 in today's dollars.

This is so true! he is using the good old expensive = good, marketing tactic. I am not saying his system is bad, I have never seen the new one, and I don't plan to for that price. But let's face it, people have lost with it, and it is not foolproof. So what makes his system better than the systems here? So many people are fooled by the stereotype that Ellis is talking about. Mark is using the tactic to its finest. It makes perfect sense. Just think about it, our world is so complex and stimulated, we have to process information so fast, and most of the time at we process information in an automatic fashion. This means that we need to use stereotypes to help make decisions to lessen the burden of the stimuli on our central nervous system. So the expensive = good stereotype is used to make qualitative decisions in a short amount of time. In reality, what are you really getting when you buy his system? Some great help, probably a great method, maybe even a future of winning, but you get that here too, for a lot less. Actually you get more here, for a lot less. Right now I am more interested in Mark's marketing methods more than his system. He is not really coming onto forums and advertising, he does not need to. he has his forum and site, and he is wording things exactly like he has to to pull the buyer in. Even the entire thing where he helps people play on Bet Phoenix is a marketing tacit, it is called the Law of Reciprocation- one of the many weapons of influence (i'm sure he is doing it to be nice, but he does get something out of it). I have noticed that a lot of what he says is taught in a book called The Psychology of Persuasion. Read that book and you can sell someone a blade of grass.

[MVSeahog]

With Mav Ultimate you are basically working off an OR type count except that you are counting RD1 vs the opposite of RD1. The color coding is fine but a lot of extra work. A +- RD1 count would accomplish the same result.

As I said before, I think it is a reasonable approach. I think it is really the same concept as O/R wherein we bet O (S40) when the count is + (O) favorable and F2,3 when the count is - ® favorable.

But what about the many shoes that favor neither O or R wherein the count, whether an O/R count or an RD1 count. keeps reversing (keeps crossing 0) ? The count hovers 0. You are wrong if you bet + or RD1 and you are wrong if you bet - anti RD1. This is a huge and growing shoe type. S40A covers this shoe type very nicely with OTB4L but what does Maverick do?

As I told Mark from the beginning, he needs to add OTB4L to his quiver. He's leaving a very major shoe type completely uncovered. And it is a shoe type that OTB4L not only covers but takes advantage of.

Ellis's reply is spot on guys.

I still play Mav/Ult but have added OTB4 when called for in the shoe.

It's not an automatic system and obviously requires a lot of user intervention but Ellis hit it exactly with his description.

MVS

[ECD]

Like what I said on my previous posts, I abandoned S40/A a long time ago because this system struggles on multi-trend shoes.

In my country of play, S40/A is not a good system to use. Multi-trend shoes are common occurrences to us in Asia.

What I did this year is I created my own 1) approach, 2) exit strategy and kept my 3) negative prog to three.

My combinations up to present are perfect. Zero loss. 100% win rate.

I use the simple Opposite and Repeat bets only. I have my own trigger switch.

You'll be amazed on the simplicity of these two. You will not see/read this on any forum.

If you could master these, you can beat any shoe.

My exit strategy is +10 units. Whenever I hit this, I quit.

My customized negative progression is 124. This is not the typical 124 that you know 'cause I designed it to be conservative.

I start with a base bet of 3-unit and ends my session goal at 5-units.

My session goal per day is +50 units. On the average, I hit this in less than three hours.

I do not finish an entire shoe anymore because it exposes me to a higher risk of loss.

On the average, I only play 15-20 hands (1st column).

BK

Well put BK. We must all play the conditions we face where we play. As I've said before, there is no such thing as a trendless shoe. "Anti trend" is a trend in itself. If a shoe keeps changing trends then THAT is what you bet.

You can do quite well just studying the OR count as BK does. Sure, its easy when the OR counts favors ONE direction, whether it be + or -. But what about when the OR count DOESN'T favor one direction or the other but keeps reversing at unpredictable points. Fine! Here + means bet - and - means bet +.

For instance, lets say in a given shoe that the OR count is staying between + 4 and - 6. Fine, that gives us our triggers when to bet AGAINST the count. No, we won't always be right but that is what progs are for. Progs make it so that all we need do is be reasonably close.

Flipping a coin gives you a 50% hit rate overall. Half the time you will be above 50% and half the time below. All we are trying to do with our predictive skills is to avoid going too far below 50%. Mathematically it is just as hard to lose 7 hands in a row as it is to win 7 hands in a row. Same odds. We don't have to win 1 out of 1 to beat the shoe. We don't even have to win 1 out of 2. A 124 prog means that we win if our predictive skills can usually keep us at 1 out of 3 or better. Hey, if a coin flip can keep us at 1 out of 2 long term, all we are asking our brain to do is beat a coin flip. Our tool is the OR count. A coin flip has no tool. Think our brain can beat a coin flip? That's all we are asking it to do.

Edited February 16, 2011 by ECD

[ECD]

BTW, I asked the Casino Mgr at Hollywood if he was familiar with the factory preshuffled cards like the ones used in Singapore. He was VERY familiar. BUT, he said, they will never be allowed by the PA board because there is a rule that the casino MUST have a way to prove that all the cards are there. I know that AC also had such a rule when I played mostly there. In Vegas, Gold Coast uses factory preshuffled cards on about half their tables. But the other half uses boxed card order cards. So I suspect there is a rule that requires boxed card order cards be used at at least some of the tables. I don't know how Singapore gets away with never having to prove that all the cards are there??? It puts the players in the position of having to trust the casino as well as the card manufacturer - And, believe me, we NEVER want to be put in that position.

[ECD]

Your English is a whole lot better than My Mandarin! We call those 400 - 500 unit systems Martingales. They've been around for 400 years. Sure, you win 99% of your shoes but you don't win much. You will soon find yourself making an 89 unit bet to win one unit and then you owe 12 units in commission. But sooner or later you get that 1 out of 100 shoe from hell and you lose the farm. Your ex-teacher is either honest but incompetent or he's an outright scammer.

The trick is to win most of the time while never betting more than 5 units while keeping your average winning shoe substantially higher than your avg. losing shoe. Then you can turn pro. You can almost do that with S40, as you know, but not quite. With 40 alone you will sometimes need to go higher than a 5 unit bet. But now that you have S40 down pat you are already half way to S40A. Once you have S40A fully mastered you will be able to win consistently at most casinos W/O having to bet more than 5 units. THAT is the mark of a TRULY good player. Keep up the good work. You are doing fine. Hey, the cards can't understand English anyway.

[ECD]

over here casino they just had a new game , the player get 1 card the dealer get 1 card who ever get a bigger card they win the smallest is 2 the biggest is ace , so i wonder if anyone here has a good betting progs on that game anyone? Ellis?

It sounds like the first card game ever invented. What happens when you push? (tie) Do we go to war? I'll bet pushes go to the dealer???

Edited February 20, 2011 by ECD

[jamestew22]

seems like casino war. Popular game in Malaysia & Singapore.

[ECD]

seems like casino war. Popular game in Malaysia & Singapore.

Right, they tried it in Vegas quite a few years back. Don't know if they still have it. I guess the casinos figure a sucker is born every minute.

BTW, I added an important chapter to the S40A manual this morning.