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I think we all have suffered discipline problems at some point in our playing careers(and if you haven't yet YOU will). Here's a book that will help, I think is well worth a read and will help you dea

Hi Mike.

First I would avoid weekends. No matter the game, casino's present their toughest game on weekends.

Second I would go to my most familiar casino where I know the conditions best. In my case that would be Gold Coast. You'd probably pick one of the Florida casinos.

Third, I'd be EXTREMELY picky. I'd study the tote boards looking for very obvious extreme chop or extreme neutral preferably or last, extreme streak or SS.

I'd be most likely to find such a situation early morning so I'd schedule accordingly.

This means that most days I probably wouldn't play at all.

Fourth I would adjust my unit size to the strength of the strongest bias I can find.

Fifth I'd likely skip $100 units. I'd be looking for $500 unit situations - like 15 - 20 play shoe starts with very high 1's a few 2s and no 3s where a ten unit buy in is ample.

Sixth I'd play U1D1 and go for 20 or 30 units determined by how well I'm doing and how early I got started.

Next shoe I would wait to see if the bias repeats. If not I'd also want to see the next shoe (same color).

If not, I'd repeat the whole process.

Except, assuming I did OK the first shoe - say around +20, I now have enough for a 15 unit buy in at $1000 units.

Yep, I 'd try to reach my goal in only 2 or 3 shoes and quit.

Yes, I'm putting all my eggs in one basket so to speak but I'm also making damn sure it is a mighty fine basket.

I'll probably spend far more time looking than playing.

If we were smart, that is the way we would all ALWAYS play. But we don't, do we. That's because we are just not smart enough yet.

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Action Mike

The good thing about your strategey is it doesn't waste time....I guess it would be over one way or another in 1 day....bad thing is its a bit risky....I'm thinking about doing this in vegas because table selection is way better...what about using $200 units at first, increasing to $500 units, but ensuring multiple attempts are available and playing 5 to 10 shoes over a few days?

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kachatz1
Hi Mike.

First I would avoid weekends. No matter the game, casino's present their toughest game on weekends.

Second I would go to my most familiar casino where I know the conditions best. In my case that would be Gold Coast. You'd probably pick one of the Florida casinos.

Third, I'd be EXTREMELY picky. I'd study the tote boards looking for very obvious extreme chop or extreme neutral preferably or last, extreme streak or SS.

I'd be most likely to find such a situation early morning so I'd schedule accordingly.

This means that most days I probably wouldn't play at all.

Fourth I would adjust my unit size to the strength of the strongest bias I can find.

Fifth I'd likely skip $100 units. I'd be looking for $500 unit situations - like 15 - 20 play shoe starts with very high 1's a few 2s and no 3s where a ten unit buy in is ample.

Sixth I'd play U1D1 and go for 20 or 30 units determined by how well I'm doing and how early I got started.

Next shoe I would wait to see if the bias repeats. If not I'd also want to see the next shoe (same color).

If not, I'd repeat the whole process.

Except, assuming I did OK the first shoe - say around +20, I now have enough for a 15 unit buy in at $1000 units.

Yep, I 'd try to reach my goal in only 2 or 3 shoes and quit.

Yes, I'm putting all my eggs in one basket so to speak but I'm also making damn sure it is a mighty fine basket.

I'll probably spend far more time looking than playing.

If we were smart, that is the way we would all ALWAYS play. But we don't, do we. That's because we are just not smart enough yet.

Agree with Ellis. Many sports bettors try just this strategy.

Make sure it is not the last $5000 you will see/have for a long time.

Come to Vegas and I will show you some of the best opportunities available to do this, as well as help you understand/ explore/witness " first hand" the potential stumbling blocks.

If it were that EZ, everyone would be doing it.

Not saying it can't be done ( it can, and happens a whale comes in all the time), just want to make sure you fully understand the story of the 3 Little Pigs and the Wolf.

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Action Mike

I've have very good results playing shoes to +5 and +10 with the occasional +20 or +30 showing many more winning shoes then losing shoes, however I commonly get hammered by not having a stop loss....there has to be a better middle pont than going all in on the first shoe

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kachatz1
I've have very good results playing shoes to +5 and +10 with the occasional +20 or +30 showing many more winning shoes then losing shoes, however I commonly get hammered by not having a stop loss....there has to be a better middle pont than going all in on the first shoe

The title of this post is $30,000 in thirty days, not 30 minutes.

Two hardest things to do in a casino:

Stop when you are losing

Stop when you are winning

Oh yeah, I've heard countless times about letting your Winners Run, and Cut Your Losses Short.

Very, very, very few of Us can objectively, consistently, rationally , without fail " apply the brakes" when it is time, every time.

Even AAA ( the auto club) knows the value of a good Tow Truck for those of us who get stuck-in-the-mud, or run-out-of-gas...and millions of us pay for that " insurance", just in case...

By the same token, you pick the right shoe ,a high limits room and a simple Player run and $5000 becomes $40,000 in three bets

Many years ago, Clint Eastwood made famous his simple query of questioning one's luck when facing down a .44 magnum.

More recently, he saved a man from choking on a piece of food.

- Both could kill you....

In the casino, we have all won 3 bets in a row many, many,many times. And many times we win two, and lose the third....

Like the former Mayor of Carmel, Ca. once said..."So, are you feeling lucky? Well, are you?"

( and even you win that 3rd bet, would you be tempted to try for four-in-a-row?)

Just thinking....

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Sorry guys, I misspoke. I meant to say Gold Strike, not Gold Coast.

Which puts a different perspective on my whole post.

The strategy I outlined, I would not attempt it in Vegas.

To me, Vegas has become a +6 town with its preshuffled cards.

I would only attempt that strategy against regular cards.

You seldom get strong enough biases in preshuffled (prearranged) cards. And Vegas, to my knowledge, is 100% preshuffled. - Not good! There may be some out of the way Vegas casinos that use regular cards I don't know about but I equate preshuffled with casino cheating.

I'm not sure about Florida - I've heard nothing good about Florida Baccarat.

So, if the challenge was to convert $5000 to $30,000 in 30 days or less:

my first choice would be Tunica.

My second choice would be A.C. no commission - regular cards.

My 3rd choice would be the Gulf Coast but only casinos using regular cards.

Vegas would not even make my list.

Sure Mike you COULD start with $200 units.

But the whole idea is to ONLY settle for tables you KNOW you can beat because the bias has already proven to be so strong. Such tables are rare but more prevalent early morning with new REGULAR cards.

You "could" play $200 units BUT, IF you have done your homework first and you have found that high bias table (that is key) why would you then want to pussy foot around? You "KNOW" you can beat that table. Go for the max unit you can afford to play. THAT is your best chance. Keep your exposure to a minimum. Hit and run. Get the project over with. Don't settle for anything less than what you KNOW you can beat even if it takes you several days to find such a table. Win your first table and you are already half way there. It is a hell of a lot easier to win for 30 minutes than for 30 days.

So OK, you win your first game because you waited for the right table. Fine, now do the WHOLE thing ONE more time. Win that table and it is mission accomplished. Why? Because you took the time to reduce your risk and your exposure to near zero. As near zero as it is possible to get.

I have the advantage of having learned BJ first.

That teaches you ONE thing. It is NOT about how well you play. IT is about how well you select your tables. THAT is the art. Only play tables that ANYBODY could beat.

NOW, apply that same lesson to Baccarat! THAT is your best chance of turning $5000 into $30,000.

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Wow!!

I must say, with the highest respect an gratitude, so as not to be taken

out of the Positive context i which I mean this:

There are some extremely powerful messages in just these couple of

posts by the writers. The messages are "between the lines" and o the surface.

There have been alot of faint hints which are some of the most powerful

teachings I ever read on this forum in this and other recent threads.

Lets say over the last thirty days or so.

I am very very grateful that the messages have been posted.

Please dont ask for MY interpretation of these messages, as human beings see things differently.

But I think it would serve every player well to put the last months worth of threads

over a microscope and contemplate.

Good luck everyone!!

Thanks again to all who contribute here!!

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Kevin, right, we have 30 days to accomplish the project. That does not mean it is to our advantage to take 30 days. 30 days is only to our advantage if we spend most of that time SEARCHING for the right table.

ONE thing BJ brings home is TIME is on the side of the casino - decidedly so. When I cut my BJ playing hours down from 70 hours a week to 20, I tripled my weekly winnings. When I spent more time searching out the right tables than playing, my winnings sky rocketed.

To turn 5000 into 30,000 does not require GOOD baccarat play. It requires MIRACULOUS baccarat approach. That, in turn, is purely a fuction of finding the right table. We've all seen what happens when we luck on to the right table. 30 units on THAT table is easier than 6 units on ANY table. Our duty is to take luck out of the equation. ONLY settle for the right tables in the first place. Now you're cooking!

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You know, Virtuoid said sort of: Well sure, Ellis wins but he does it through table section, not math.

Well, spoken like a true Mathematician. I plead guilty!

But there is no rule that says you must use math. In fact no system designer was ever successful using math.

So OK fine, I use table selection and then apply the right system to that table. Fine, guilty as charged.

But when Virtuoid says Baccarat can't be beat what he really means is Baccarat can't be beat by math. And he's right - it can't.

That is why I use a whole different approach. One BTW he admits wins. But he treats it almost like some form of cheating.

Look, there are no rules. Whatever wins, wins. Don't handicap yourself with math. Use whatever wins.

Baccarat isn't about math. It is about table and system SELECTION.

Just as Golf isn't about math either. It is also about SELECTION. Selecting the right club for the prevailing conditions and knowing how to swing it.

Those two games have so much in common.

I'll bet Virtuoid sucks at Golf, too. Math isn't the answer to everything.

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Action Mike

From a math perscpective, a $5000 bankroll provides 25 units @ $200 per unit. Building that up to a 50 unit profit is something I would be thinking could be done within 5-20 shoes, depending on how the shoes go. At that point, moving to $500 units would allow for a 30 unit buy-in, and would only require another 40 units win to meet a goal of $30,000 profit. Isn't it realistic to make 90 units over a 30 day period playing just about anywhere if we have a -10 stop loss, 1/2 decade win stop and a play NOR correctly a few mornings a week, possibly 3-5 partial shoes per day?

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Action Mike

Another idea would be Net-Betting P/B or O/R depending on the shoe, of course watching for table selection. A 20 unit bankroll should comfortably carry a 1-2-3-4 progression to at least a +5 way significantly more times than a -10, correct?

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I've have very good results playing shoes to +5 and +10 with the occasional +20 or +30 showing many more winning shoes then losing shoes, however I commonly get hammered by not having a stop loss....there has to be a better middle pont than going all in on the first shoe

That's like saying: "Ha, nine of those ten bullets missed me!"

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I've always fancied this idea from a great manual I read 10+ years ago:

E. Clifton Davis’ How to Make a Million Dollars in 10 Days Plan

Once you are winning 5 units or more per shoe – try this no risk plan:

Day 1: Play 10 shoes @ $5 units = wins $250 – this gives you 10 - $25 unit buy in.

Day 2: Play 10 shoes @ $25 units = wins $1,250 – this gives you 12.5 - $100 unit buy in.

Day 3: Play 10 shoes @ $100 units = wins $5,000 – this gives you 10 - $500 unit buy in.

Day 4: Play 10 shoes @ $500 units = wins $25,000 – this gives you 10 - $1,000 unit buy in.

Day 5: Play 10 shoes @ $1,000 units = wins $50,000 – this gives you 10 - $5,000 unit buy in.

Day 6-10: Play 40 shoes @ $5,000 units = wins $1,081,500

Winning a million dollars at Baccarat is an extremely common occurrence.

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Action Mike

At the airport now, will be in vegas in 6 hours....getting a good night sleep and hitting it in the morning.....after I bank away the 30000, I'll try to start over and go for a million

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I've always fancied this idea from a great manual I read 10+ years ago:

E. Clifton Davis’ How to Make a Million Dollars in 10 Days Plan

Once you are winning 5 units or more per shoe – try this no risk plan:

Day 1: Play 10 shoes @ $5 units = wins $250 – this gives you 10 - $25 unit buy in.

Day 2: Play 10 shoes @ $25 units = wins $1,250 – this gives you 12.5 - $100 unit buy in.

Day 3: Play 10 shoes @ $100 units = wins $5,000 – this gives you 10 - $500 unit buy in.

Day 4: Play 10 shoes @ $500 units = wins $25,000 – this gives you 10 - $1,000 unit buy in.

Day 5: Play 10 shoes @ $1,000 units = wins $50,000 – this gives you 10 - $5,000 unit buy in.

Day 6-10: Play 40 shoes @ $5,000 units = wins $1,081,500

Winning a million dollars at Baccarat is an extremely common occurrence.

Wow, funny you should happen to mention that THIS morning pauld.

Anybody believe in fate?

It also happens that I got a PM this morning reminding me of an extremely simple system that I designed back then that pretty much guarantees 5 or more units per shoe. And it doesn't give a hoot whether you are playing preshuffled or standard cards or how they are shuffled. Because it doesn't depend on biases at all. It uses simple math.

What are the odds that both of these messages out of the distant past would hit my desk the same morning??? Fate!

Too bad Mike is already at the airport.

I woke up this morning in a total state of depression. The worst of my entire life. But then, lightening bolts out of the past!

See, I slowly realized that not only is the 4D impossible to play repeatedly W/O getting a headache no size glass of Scotch can cure - I realized at the last seminar that it is also impossible to teach to the average player. I've been in a growing state of depression ever since that seminar. The forum merely confirmed there was good reason for my depression.

Then my friend Norm dies - perhaps the best player we ever had.

But then I start getting these lightening bolts from the beyond.

Fate? I always thought you created your own but this morning I'm not so sure.

You know, I did a Vegas seminar on the above million dollar program together with my +5 system nearly 20 years ago. It was my highest profit seminar ever. $87,500 in a single one night 4 hour seminar. You need to multiply by 10 to get today's dollars.

But then we got greedy. We wanted systems that averaged more than 5 units. SAP averaged 6 but suffered the same problem the 4D has. Few could do it but even fewer could last longer than a shoe or two in the casino. And that's where the money is. Beating your kitchen table doesn't count.

+5 doesn't sound like much but what if it's $1000 units??? Or in Norm's case $5000 units ???

Which do you think is easier - winning 5 $1000 units in a shoe or winning a thousand $5 units in a shoe???

The cards don't know or care the color of your chips.

But Ellis, I can't afford $1000 units!

Neither could Norm - at first. But win 5 or more units every shoe and it will sooner or later occur to you to raise your unit. Then it will sooner or later occur to you to raise it again.... and again..... and again, just like Norm did. Before you know it you are at $5000 units - just like Norm.

And I'm sure Norm won't mind me telling you, the system I'm talking about is better and more automatic than what Norm was playing, yet even easier to play.

What we want, what we need, is a system so simple ANYBODY could play it all day long. THAT's what I'm talking about.

AND we need a system that can be played ANYWHERE, standard or preshuffled cards.

We need a system that doesn't need any counts.

We need it to be low betting and stress free.

We need it to play any table any shoe W/O table selection, starting right out at play 2 every time.

We need it require a very low buy in.

We want to be on all runs whether STraight, ZZ or TT.

We need it to average +5 or better.

OK, I've got all that covered. What else do you want?

Oh, yeah, the rules. Here are the rules I wrote 20 years ago.

We know a little more now and I think we can improve on these today by adding S40M1. But I'll simply copy part of the PM sent me this morning:

> Here's another simple way to play that can be very successful. Ann, my

> playing partner, and I once made it to 40 winning shoes in a row

> playing this way at 5 different casinos.

>

> Bet a simple 1,2 primary progression that 1's will stay 1 and 2's will

> stay 2. But when you get a 3, go back to betting 1 that the 3 will go

> to 4. If it doesn't, go back to your original 1,2 bet scheme until you

> get another 3. This time bet 2 that the 3 will go to 4 and so on.

>

> Of course if the shoe is favoring chop you may want to reverse your

> secondary prog from betting 3's will go to 4 to 3's will stay 3.

>

> This is a highly effective system with minimal risk in spite of its

> extreme simplicity.

>

> Give it a try. It worked for us. Oh, I forgot, if you win your

> secondary prog bet because the 3 went to 4 just stay on the run until

> you lose. Who knows, the damn thing might go 12! It's so simple its

> stupid BUT highly effective. "

Isn't that a hell of a lot simpler than the 4D?

Shouldn't that be what I'm teaching?

Now, add that thought to the following and you'll see why my depression just got better.

"I've always fancied this idea from a great manual I read 10+ years ago:

E. Clifton Davis’ How to Make a Million Dollars in 10 Days Plan

Once you are winning 5 units or more per shoe – try this no risk plan:

Day 1: Play 10 shoes @ $5 units = wins $250 – this gives you 10 - $25 unit buy in.

Day 2: Play 10 shoes @ $25 units = wins $1,250 – this gives you 12.5 - $100 unit buy in.

Day 3: Play 10 shoes @ $100 units = wins $5,000 – this gives you 10 - $500 unit buy in.

Day 4: Play 10 shoes @ $500 units = wins $25,000 – this gives you 10 - $1,000 unit buy in.

Day 5: Play 10 shoes @ $1,000 units = wins $50,000 – this gives you 10 - $5,000 unit buy in.

Day 6-10: Play 40 shoes @ $5,000 units = wins $1,081,500

Winning a million dollars at Baccarat is an extremely common occurrence."

Can you imagine getting both of those the same morning! Maybe it's fate. Maybe we should ALL be paying attention to it???

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Action Mike

Maybe fate is on my side. Arrived last night and while walking to dinner table, saw a roulette table with 5 in a row red, so I placed 1 $100 bet on red and won, then went to dinner. After dinner, stopped at two tables running a ZZ pattern and placed $25 bets and won both of them. Then I went to the baccarat room and saw a table at play 44, it was 22 bank and 20 player. The player had won 3 in a row and I noticed all of the runs were odd numbers. I watched the player go to 4, then placed a $50 bet on player and won. I went to bed winning every single table and up $200 for the night on a $100 buy in. This morning, I woke up to a very good business call and then saw this update. I'm ready to do it!

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> Here's another simple way to play that can be very successful. Ann, my

> playing partner, and I once made it to 40 winning shoes in a row

> playing this way at 5 different casinos.

>

> Bet a simple 1,2 primary progression that 1's will stay 1 and 2's will

> stay 2. But when you get a 3, go back to betting 1 that the 3 will go

> to 4. If it doesn't, go back to your original 1,2 bet scheme until you

> get another 3. This time bet 2 that the 3 will go to 4 and so on.

>

> Of course if the shoe is favoring chop you may want to reverse your

> secondary prog from betting 3's will go to 4 to 3's will stay 3.

>

> This is a highly effective system with minimal risk in spite of its

> extreme simplicity.

>

> Give it a try. It worked for us. Oh, I forgot, if you win your

> secondary prog bet because the 3 went to 4 just stay on the run until

> you lose. Who knows, the damn thing might go 12! It's so simple its

> stupid BUT highly effective. "

Ellis, isn't that kind of like S40M2 then OTR til a loss?

Regards,

Glenn

"Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine per cent perspiration...do your homework" Thomas A. Edison

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See, here's exactly how the math works. 1's and 2s together make up exactly half the circles on your score card on average. You win 1 unit on every 1 and 1 unit on every 2. That is a total of +27 units on average. From there you are simply trying to make 3 or mores cancel out. You aren't trying to make money or lose money on them - just break even. So you are just trying to stay with the odds of the game - break even. Sometimes you make a little on them (long runs of one kind or another) and sometimes you lose a little on them (no long runs) BUT, the fewer the runs and the shorter the runs - the more 1's and 2's there are. You are only trying to make 5 units. So +27 is a pretty damn big cushion to start with. See that?

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Action Mike
But then we got greedy. We wanted systems that averaged more than 5 units. SAP averaged 6 but suffered the same problem the 4D has. Few could do it but even fewer could last longer than a shoe or two in the casino. And that's where the money is. Beating your kitchen table doesn't count.

+5 doesn't sound like much but what if it's $1000 units??? Or in Norm's case $5000 units ???

This is why I chose Vegas. Playing shoes all day every day is very stressful and likely to create failure. As a young gentleman, Vegas has plenty of things to do to keep me occupied other than the tables so I can employ hit and run strategies to +5 and avoid burn-out. If I were going all-in to win in 1 day, I think Ellis is on point with choosing a better casino. But if the plan is to play every day, hour after hour, it will cause errors in the MID-TERM, before getting fully seasoned, and I think this is where 100 shoes would likely fail. I found with short sessions of less than 4 hours, I can play two days in a row. With 2 hour sessions, I can play twice a day every day. With 30 minute sesssions, I can play 4 or 5 times with 1 hour breaks, but I still get burned out in 1 day. Taking a week or two to build this massive bankroll I think can certainly be done in Vegas and it can be entertaining as well.

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For example, take this highly normal col of 20 plays:

P11221311224

That is very very close to the normal frequency of events.

Draw your circles out

Now simply bet a 1,2 up as you lose prog on opposites.

When you lose a 2 bet 1 under the 3. If it loses bet 2 on opposites.

But because you lost 1 under that 3, under the next 3 bet 2. Had you lost that, you would bet 3 under the next 3.

That is what we call a prog within a prog.

Ok, you'll see that you hit your goal of +5 or more 6 times in that one normal column.

OK, that is the basic way of playing Basic S40.

That is exactly how it won 40 shoes in a row.

From there, it is not necessary but you could get a little cute - nothing like the 4D mind you but a little cute.

You could, for instance, note than none of your 3s are going to 4iar. Fine, you play the same way except you bet your prog within a prog opposite the 3 instead of on the 3. See that? We didn't do that. We won anyway but there were definitely some of the 40 shoes where we would have been better off betting against the 3s. It is pretty obvious but you'll likely get to +5 either way - just quicker.

Or you may note holy gripe there aren't any 2s. Fine. just bet OTR after a losing 1 rather than after a losing 2. THAT is S40M1.

In all cases stay on the run until you lose.

And you might get a streaky shoe with lots of long runs. You're gonna feel a little dumb betting 1 unit all the way down a 9iar. Fine, simply bet 2 down the runs. But when they end, go back to 1.

Yes, the more you play it the more skilled you become. BUT we won 40 shoes just playing the basic way.

We usually won 5 or 6 or 7 but sometimes +20.

Our last session to make 40 wins in a row was at Stardust Vegas, high stakes pit.

Ann and I were the only players in the room and playing very fast at a $100 14 player turn your own touch game.

The table was extremely choppy and we were hitting +20 every shoe.

Another couple game in and the guy was obviously a little drunk.

He bought in at $10,000 and bet $1000 units.

He loudly scoffed at our play saying thats not how you play Baccarat. You bet on runs.

We never said a word but I kept obviously looking over our many piles of ten blacks each and then looking at his meager 4 or 5 chips.

The dealer was in histerics. But that didn't shut him up. Just got louder.

So right soon after his third buy in we hit our plus 20 and started coloring up about 8 piles of ten each. I spoke for the first time.

"So how many shoes have we won in a row now ?"

Ann looked the guy straight in the eye and said: "This last one makes an even 40!"

I thought the dealer was going to piss her pants. The couple left. So did we.

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