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NOR Top Tip Of The Week


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Tips which you learn or reinforce to yourself which could help others - please post:

When looking for the bias its just as important to ask yourself whats coming up most (more than expected) as to whats coming up least (less than expected) or not at all. Sometimes its easy to see just 1 thing missing than several things at once that are there and vice versa

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This is a great idea Brad

My tip is to make sure you know which will be the right system (S40, OTB4L, MDB+ etc)

before you lay any money on the table. In other words choose the shoe where you

have established the bias (or not for MDB+), and don't start playing and wait for

the bias to unfold.

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Hi Pando thanks - probably the most important tip period

As Norm said on his posts (unfortunately I was not a member when he was still with us):

Follow the shoe - if in doubt wait it out

I was also reading he would rather wait for 15 hands or so if he wasn't sure and wait until he saw a bet he was confident with. (it could take up to 15 hands with difficult cards in order to see a bet he liked)

So far I have achieved +18 on my MDR run at $1 mil with NO LOSING SESSIONS

Hit rate 60 - 100% flat bet only

Tonight I will be ready to go up a level if I can hit +2

I've done that by sitting there and being patient and not placing bets until I see a clear bet I like.

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-8 stop loss and +10 to +50 from NOR manual was designed for experienced players who know the card bias before they start playing AND the bias is strong and consistent.

-8 and +10 can be divided down by 2 to be -4 and +5

Further to that if you don't have the time or patience to study the cards and know the bias and bias consistency then you should further lower your win goal due to unknown bias. Stop loss I would say not as -4 is low and any lower doesn't give you room to recover.

This equates to -4 and +2 - 3

There is no reason to bet anything other than flat bet to achieve the win goal or hit the stop loss OTHER THAN IF YOU RIDE A STREAK IN WHICH CASE YOU COULD INCREASE TO CAPITALISE - 2 units maybe (1,2 loop) and in which case your first flat bet is your only risk - a win or loss after that is either break even or profit.

Surprise surprise - isn't this Oz's win goal / stop loss limits?

How much is he up again? - $2mil +

Surpise surprise

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  • 1 month later...

Hi All,

Just to share my recent experience.

When i play NOR, i find that alternate between progressions base on the shoe, sometimes 1,1,2 or 1,2,3 or 1,2,1.....

if i play 1,1,2, my stop lost is -4 or -5, take win is +4 or +5 ( it might be more ie. if i am riding on runs, i will ride till the end.)

if i play 1,2,3, my stop lost is -6, take win is +8 or more...

if i play 1,2,1, my stop lost is -6, take win +6 or more....

why 1, 2, 1, ...? if i am winning alot of 1st and 2nd bets, and modes keep changing.. in this manner, i find it easier to handle the 3rd bet. if 1,2,3 progression, higher chances of hitting my stop lost .

most of the time i am playing 112 or 121, and as my target is only +4 or +6

My take win is not high so quite easy to reach..

Just my 2 cents worth...

I just recently got wiped out my entire bankroll built since april , i had my losing streak of 5 sessions in a row, which really wasn't the killer....

I up my bet size, went to the high rollers room and started chasing losses and gambled with no basic discipline... have even reached a point where i pocketted 40 units from a shoe but i continued to play on.... hence sigh.............. " chasing lossses" is a big NO NO.....

and here i am starting from square 1 again, building my bankroll from scratch, but definitely i am a better NOR player now

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I always track my W/L chart and play accordingly.

You'll be amazed on realizing how many units you can save/earn doing this!

Hi,

I haven't seen the w/l chart and its use discussed anywhere.

is it a matter of keeping a count of bets won and lost(+1 for wins, -1 for losses) in the current game and betting

more agressively when either wins out number losses or losses outnumber wins ?

Thanks in advance.

Wendel

Edited by Wendel
added punctuation for clarity
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It's easy to walk away winning,

It's difficult to walk away losing......

However if successfully cut losses within the session, and walking away losing a bit but not entire session bankroll, it feels good losing as well

After prolonged losing streaks, ..... Gambler mentality kicks in, and chase losses...

Any tips or experience care to share, on walking away losing..?

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  • Baccarat Hall of Fame Member

Best tips I can give you are as follows, and this comes from many years of doing things wrong

Before I finally learned ...

1)make sure you break down your bank roll into smaller increments… Example if your bankroll is $1000 , break it down into $200 increments...play the first $200, and depending on how you feel, how it goes, decide if the next $200 increment is " warranted" to play...

2)only bring the absolute maximum to the casino that you would be willing to lose and still have had a good evening and sleep that night… This means no credit cards, no ATM cards, no "mad money" hidden in your shoe, wallet,purse,etc.

3) you simply must be prepared to accept small losses in exchange for larger wins and winning more shoes than you lose.. The entire purpose of this forum is to make you a bigger winner then loser… As you become more experienced and you apply the principles and concepts taught herein, this will become very obvious

And

4) no matter what, treat this game as a business and just as you would in the "business world" you simply have to realize that your best course of action is to treat dealers, other players, etc. with respect and control your emotions…

The longer you play, the better you will understand this

Good luck and while I realize losing is never easy, the sooner you come to grips with a way to control your losses and your emotions over same ,the better Baccarat player you will be...

Always remember the casino is pretty much open 24–7 so the sun will come up tomorrow ...

Believe me, if you apply yourself towards becoming a WINNER, you will...

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  • Baccarat Hall of Fame Member
NOR Top Tip Of The Week:

MDB+ is usually another price on top of NOR but ask Keith as forum has been restructured

Before it was $1200 USD for full membership

That's what I payed and I don't regret it

A big shout out to Brad for being perhaps the greatest cheerleader for the forum over the last several months

Certainly would have been a long plane ride to attend today's seminar and having gone to China and Thailand and Korea collectively over 50 times the last 25 years of my business life I 100% totally get it

And as much as his enthusiasm, commentary, and willingness to "put it out there" have been appreciated by many these last several months, I think today he would have had the equivalent of a Baccarat orgasm...

(did he just say that?)

Yup. I did.

Brad, it really was that good and I felt compelled to reach out to you of all members because of your tireless support and sharing of ideas and concepts

Wait until you hear what is on the horizon for BTC…

I'll leave that to Keith to share, but again you deserve a big "shout out" from the people at the seminar because you have really helped carry the load these last several months, and your willingness to keep the fire burning is much appreciated...

Met a lot of forum members today and as always that is really the best part of being involved in this…

Someday, I want to meet you...

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Hi Kevin, thanks for the kind words, I really would have loved to be there but it just didn't happen this year

I really hope to be there next year and doing everything I can to make it happen.

I talked to so many great people and characters on this forum since I joined - namely - yourself, way2fast, Pando, McVince, Ntr, CT70, Oz (don't know where he is lately) and many others

In regards to my tips for winning - Yes its easy to walk away with a win but what do you regard as a win? I regard 1 unit as win as in my overall game plan 1 unit is a lot and I am moving forward. If things are shaky and I think a win may turn into a loss I will always walk out with a 1 unit win as soon as I get down to that or back up to that. So yes it can be easy to walk with a win as long as you don't turn that win into a loss.

Go over your bankroll management in your head and on paper constantly. Know your level up plan and looking at it will give you motivation that even 1 unit is a step closer. Go over it so much you know it in your sleep - then when you get to the casino it will be like a computer program - win this and walk, lose this and walk.

Know your stop loss and why it is what it is. Know that walking with that stop loss will not be that hard to recover and regroup but going past it could well be the point of diminishing returns and that is the point where you start to say what the hell I didn't stick to my game plan so may as well go for broke and try and win big. The when you do hit your stop loss it will not feel like a loss - it will feel like the inevitable part of what we do in order to get back to winning and moving forward again.

Hi Wendel for Win / loss tracking I do it like this:

(w)ww(L)LwLw(L)wwLL

Imaginary bets I put in brackets

I actually track all results like the above as I don't like the counts - I find them too hard to interpret at a glance and tracking this way I can see it all visually very quickly

You can adjust your progression if you use one from the wL ratio or pick and choose when you bet if you can see patterns.

If your getting wwwwwLwwwwwL - you would obviously go for it

If your getting wLwLwLwL - a 1,2 loop on the w or a flat bet after a L would make sense.

If your getting LLLLLwLLLLw - then stop betting OR bet the exact opposite of what you are doing and all your L's become w's ! (hopefully if the bias lasts)

I did this the other night on hit and run roulette - all my imaginary bets table to table were losses so I used the same bet selection method and then bet on the opposite result.

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Hi Wendel for Win / loss tracking I do it like this:

(w)ww(L)LwLw(L)wwLL

Imaginary bets I put in brackets

I actually track all results like the above as I don't like the counts - I find them too hard to interpret at a glance and tracking this way I can see it all visually very quickly

You can adjust your progression if you use one from the wL ratio or pick and choose when you bet if you can see patterns.

If your getting wwwwwLwwwwwL - you would obviously go for it

If your getting wLwLwLwL - a 1,2 loop on the w or a flat bet after a L would make sense.

If your getting LLLLLwLLLLw - then stop betting OR bet the exact opposite of what you are doing and all your L's become w's ! (hopefully if the bias lasts)

I did this the other night on hit and run roulette - all my imaginary bets table to table were losses so I used the same bet selection method and then bet on the opposite result.

Hi Brad01,

Thank you for sharing this . I really appreciate it.

I do find myself more than occaisionally with LLLLLWLLLLW strings.

Betting against what appears to be the correct NOR bet seems hard to do , but I am going to give this a shot,

albeit carefully.

Usually my stop loss or my better judgement gets me out of these without too much damage,

but i find it embarrasing as hell.

In the past , I have taken a marker at -4 or so out of -8 and found a place to review my

scorecard (usually McDonald's) to try and determine where the wheels fell of. Usually ,

i am playing at the only baccarat table available to me.

Thanks again,

Wendel

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I heard of people actually tracking their sessions too the same way so they know when they might expect a winning or losing session.

I think if you find yourself choosing NOR bias correctly and still losing then it could be that the bias changes as you start betting.

This could well be a trick by the casinos to let a bias form and then change it every 10 plays or so.

This stops bias players and NOR original rules.

It actually may be worse than pure random (MDB+)

In this case you have to bet less and look for the switch and short term bias less than 10 plays

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  • Baccarat Hall of Fame Member

I track the wins, losses, the session variance and the total variance score.

I check the W/L patterns and the variance. When you are near the limits, bet carefully.

This works better when you play a mechanical system.

Hi,

I haven't seen the w/l chart and its use discussed anywhere.

is it a matter of keeping a count of bets won and lost(+1 for wins, -1 for losses) in the current game and betting

more agressively when either wins out number losses or losses outnumber wins ?

Thanks in advance.

Wendel

bacclover

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Good stuff wolfat.

So you track the disparity in your win / loss ratio ?

And in your session / sessions

So for example your session might have a spread of 8 - thats -3 up to +5 so you get close to +5 again you will likely quit there ?

So you are tracking what results you expect to get?

I would say a mechanical system will give you consistency in the results right?

If you change systems all the time the wL is not really relative to anything - just like your luck on the day playing whatever you are playing?

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I track the wins, losses, the session variance and the total variance score.

I check the W/L patterns and the variance. When you are near the limits, bet carefully.

This works better when you play a mechanical system.

Thanks. this is more stuff that I may be able to adapt to my analysis and ultimately my play.

Wendel

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I do keep track of my WL sessions.

,Usually i play 3 shoes, and i am done. This i consider 1 session.

for example if i am at 7W and 1 L.

My next session, i will be very careful, i will try not to play 1,2,3 progressions, maybe FlatBet or 112.

aim to get +4 per shoe, however, if i feel the shoe is not right, i will not change system, rather get +1 or +2 and move on to the next table, or Cut loss at -4.

Usually i will get +1 or +2 per shoe unless i am lucky to get on the run, and i will leave until the runs end.

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