How to flat bet using NOR

[William Looi]

I have try using NOR flat bet .but i am in Negative

[Wendel]

46 minutes ago, William Looi said:

I have try using NOR flat bet .but i am in Negative

Hi William,

flat betting with NOR is not the easiest thing in the world to do and win at,

I think that table selection, table entry and appropriate stop wins and stop losses might be the keys to doing this.

I don't know what playing conditions you have . I.e. tables to select from and seats available

so this observation may be mute.

But, before you enter a table look at he marquee and determine in your mind which of the 3 nor approaches

will start to win immediately. If you can't do that , move on to the next table and repeat.

If you are practising from old score cards , try this ....

scan them for sections that you know you can beat

 select a Nor approach and pretend that you entered the table there.

Mind your stop wins and losses

See if your results improve.

 

 

 

 

[Wendel]

36 minutes ago, Wendel said:

Hi William,

flat betting with NOR is not the easiest thing in the world to do and win at,

I think that table selection, table entry and appropriate stop wins and stop losses might be the keys to doing this.

I don't know what playing conditions you have . I.e. tables to select from and seats available

so this observation may be mute.

But, before you enter a table look at he marquee and determine in your mind which of the 3 nor approaches

will start to win immediately. If you can't do that , move on to the next table and repeat.

If you are practising from old score cards , try this ....

scan them for sections that you know you can beat

 select a Nor approach and pretend that you entered the table there.

Mind your stop wins and losses

See if your results improve.

 

 

 

 

or, If you prefer to play s40, or your casino favors s40 look for the s40 sections in your practice shoes and start there.

     If you prefer Otb4L  and your casino favors OTB4L look for OTB4l sections

In the casino look for the game type you prefer.

[ECD]

1 hour ago, William Looi said:

I have try using NOR flat bet .but i am in Negative

William, I would not recommend flat betting with NOR.  I am not anti-flat betting, and I am not a proponent of long progressions.  But if you are going to play a system which bets nearly every hand, I do think you need to think about how to progress, or not progress your bets to take advantage of your chosen system. 

The NOR methods (S40, OTBL, F) were intended to use a progression for a reason.  Take S40 as an example.  You always bet opposites.  Well, over time opposites will equal repeats and in theory you will break even by flat betting.  The progression is intended to change the outcome of the events.  If you flat bet, you break even on a 2iar, but you win1 unit if playing a progression.  If you flat bet you lose to a 3iar, but you beat a 3iar if you use a progression.  So to win by flat betting, you need a very high number of 1s and very few anything else.  With a progression you dramatically change the outcome, as you win on 1s, 2s and 3s, which are 87.5% of all events.  Of course the loss on the other 12.5% of events is greater than flat betting, depending on exactly what stop triggers you put in place or when you decide to go OTR.  This is not an endorsement of just mechanically playing S40 with a progression -- but if you are going to play S40 (or another NOR method), do first work out and consider HOW it will perform against all possible events under different betting progressions, and then chose the progression that gives you the best chance to win.

 

[brad01]

Short term setups only

 

11121121 - go for 1 opposite and move on

223 - go for 1 OTBL and move on

43 - go for a repeat and move on

2131 - go fo a SS and move on

 

[brad01]

I do flat bet with NOR and in some cases use 12 progression either negative or positive.

Here is what I just played at my casino:

Roulette - Red/Black:

23111121112321113122325

I record ZZ on bottom as it helps me and consecutive multiples on top as it also helps me:

MU: 131

ST: 23111121112321113122325

ZZ: 6522532222

Instantly you can look at each row and see characteristics:

MU: Single multiples followed by 3+ multiples but no 2 multiples so far

ST: Sections of S40 and OTBL - the end looked like a repeat section coming

ZZ: lots of high ZZ's - 5's and 6's mixed with 2ZZ but until the end no 3 or 4 ZZ's

Breaking the shoe into sections this is how I had it:

ST: 23 - OTBL but this is where I entered and there was a strong repeat event which was undetermined before so I just sat on this

** 5 plays **

111121112 - S40 section strong

** 11 plays **

232 - OTBL section

** 7 plays **

11131 - S40M1 / TBL section

** 7 plays **

2232 - OTBL section

** 9 plays **

How I played it - I could see no MDB+ bets here or characteristics of MDB+ bias but pretty strong NOR bias for short term:

setup 1 - 111121 - bet S40 1 bet win = +1

setup 2 - 23 - bet OTBL 1 play - win - +2

setup 3 - 1113 - s40M1 - I will say not a big fan of this but figured a bias was due - S40M1 1 play - win +3

setup 4 - 22 - OTBL - 2 plays as figured longer bias due and prepared to stake a 1,2 progression as in front and win rate good - WLW - +2

Score +5

Considering betting an MDB+ bet on the last event and also after all the multiples (5) and 1 would have won, other unconfirmed but not prepared to play around with a +5 result unless 100% sure and had more time.

Hope this helps William - please let me know how you go with this type of approach

 

[brad01]

One last thing William - by recording the length of plays you can see patterns too

a couple of short biases MAY lead to a long bias coming and vice versa

In that case you can go for an up as you win if you think its likely you will get 2 in a row or 2 of 3 or an up as you lose if you think you will get 1 of 2

 

 

[brad01]

Had a walk past bac tables on way out and short term NOR was alive and well there too

[William Looi]

I am getting better now without flat bet. Only choose very good set up to enter. I think 20 hands from the beginning should be ok , what is your opinion. I target to make I or 2 unite and stop wait for few hands pass or longer and target 1 unite and stop . not to be aggressive..  

[William Looi]

I should try Brand01 method  for short term trend, thanks brand01, I will try your method this few days and let you know my result

[brad01]

You should make some triggers for yourself which work

Try some and adjust

For me

S40 / opposite - 1111 or 12112 - something like that

OTBL - 22 or 32 or 23 - something like that

S40 M1 - 313 or 3114 or something like that - many 2's before is good because maybe there will be none for a while r at least for 1 more bet

Repeats: 43 or 24 or 42 - something like that

SS - Strong side - 212 or 312 or 4241 or something like that

Write them down and memorise and try them and adjust for yourself

Remember - if there is opposite bias coming strongly - you only need 1 more opposite to come and you can win 1 unit

Then keep doing the same for all triggers

Once you get better try to pick the time to go for 2 or more units

[William Looi]

Yes,  that is a way.  With hit and run method I manage to make 20 unite and with  1,2,3 progression did not blow up yet. so far so good. NOR and MDB+ is ok so far so good.

I have attached a shoe today, good for short trend.

[brad01]

Good to see you are thinking William:

P1312122121151411313313112112

131212 = SS = 10 plays

2212 = OTBL = 7 plays

1211 = S40 = 5 plays ** too short **

115141131331311 = S40M1 = 30 plays! (although without a progression the 3's would make it tough)

112112 = S40 = 8 plays

Notice all playable biases last between 6 - 12 plays usually and then there is usually 1 long bias I in there every 3 plays or so.

MDB+ (the way I play) = +4

 

 

 

[zeckam]

Hi William

If you play S40m3 1234, you will do very well but there are many progression risk play you need to take. 

[brad01]

The problem with NOR in original form is it bulldozes thru a shoe with a progression based on the ASSUMPTION a previous bias will continue

Maybe there are shoes around that do that but I haven't seen too many.

In that case if the bas changes that's where short term NOR makes sense.

This is bet selection only.

Progression is up to individual.

I can handle a 2 bet to get thru a bump in the road or to maximise a good shoe but not more than that.

 

 

[William Looi]

originally I learn NOR is to bulldozer all the way, after playing for more than 50 shoes live internet dealer, I suffer about 100 unite.

[zeckam]

Brad

Agree with you. To play nor thru a shoe. U need to be discipline on your win loss stops. So far I hv success in playing nor shoe in that way. 

[brad01]

Well done.

I like to think of it like a soldier on the ground or a sniper.

A soldier on the ground cannot see the enemy or even know exactly where they are.

The use a lot of fire to keep the enemy at bay.

A sniper can see everything and take aim patiently

Or like a technical boxer vs a brawler.

Brawler can win by overpowering somebody if they get the jump and get lucky.

A technical boxer will think and adapt their style to what will win for them.

Mayweather is like the perfect technical boxer of this generation.

You know what his uncle / trainer said?

The easiest way to get your ass knocked out is to try and knock someone out!

I relate this to NOR when you try to win big fast its easy to lose fast!

[avion]

very wise words, concerning getting your ass knocked out, by trying to knock someone out, with the strategy of having a technical skill set.

[brad01]

I had 35 amateur / semi pro fights boxing / kickboxing so I know a little about the game

Was watching Mayweather vs Canelo Alvarez

In about rd 8 Mayweather hit him with several good shots and then a hard straight right

I could see it rattled Canelo pretty bad but hes tough and he tried not too show it

I was like if Mayweather wants this by KO he could probably get it now

Mayweather actually backed off and reset himself in the ring and ended up winning easily on points

He is that disciplined he knows the game so well he knew that if he went for it theres a chance as he throws a punch Canelo being hurt might also throw a big punch out of desperation and all it takes is bad luck on timing and Mayweathers chin raises a little as he throws and he gets hit and its lights out

Like they say its the punch you don't see that knocks you out as your brain just shuts down when it rattles inside your head and your body doesn't know its coming

I see a lot of similarities between the fight game and this except when you lose its not physical its financial

But the strategy is very similar and the hard training is similar

Its you vs the casino 

[avion]

Really good stuff Brad.  The psychology of winning.......is definitely worthwhile in understanding and knowing.  Especially for those who want to win.  As a person who has engaged in a lot of sports, golf was the greatest challenge of all of them.  Personally, baccarat is an even greater challenge.

Edited January 21, 2016 by avion