William Looi Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 I have try using NOR flat bet .but i am in Negative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Players Wendel Posted January 15, 2016 Legacy Players Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 46 minutes ago, William Looi said: I have try using NOR flat bet .but i am in Negative Hi William, flat betting with NOR is not the easiest thing in the world to do and win at, I think that table selection, table entry and appropriate stop wins and stop losses might be the keys to doing this. I don't know what playing conditions you have . I.e. tables to select from and seats available so this observation may be mute. But, before you enter a table look at he marquee and determine in your mind which of the 3 nor approaches will start to win immediately. If you can't do that , move on to the next table and repeat. If you are practising from old score cards , try this .... scan them for sections that you know you can beat select a Nor approach and pretend that you entered the table there. Mind your stop wins and losses See if your results improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Players Wendel Posted January 15, 2016 Legacy Players Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 36 minutes ago, Wendel said: Hi William, flat betting with NOR is not the easiest thing in the world to do and win at, I think that table selection, table entry and appropriate stop wins and stop losses might be the keys to doing this. I don't know what playing conditions you have . I.e. tables to select from and seats available so this observation may be mute. But, before you enter a table look at he marquee and determine in your mind which of the 3 nor approaches will start to win immediately. If you can't do that , move on to the next table and repeat. If you are practising from old score cards , try this .... scan them for sections that you know you can beat select a Nor approach and pretend that you entered the table there. Mind your stop wins and losses See if your results improve. or, If you prefer to play s40, or your casino favors s40 look for the s40 sections in your practice shoes and start there. If you prefer Otb4L and your casino favors OTB4L look for OTB4l sections In the casino look for the game type you prefer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users ECD Posted January 15, 2016 Users Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 1 hour ago, William Looi said: I have try using NOR flat bet .but i am in Negative William, I would not recommend flat betting with NOR. I am not anti-flat betting, and I am not a proponent of long progressions. But if you are going to play a system which bets nearly every hand, I do think you need to think about how to progress, or not progress your bets to take advantage of your chosen system. The NOR methods (S40, OTBL, F) were intended to use a progression for a reason. Take S40 as an example. You always bet opposites. Well, over time opposites will equal repeats and in theory you will break even by flat betting. The progression is intended to change the outcome of the events. If you flat bet, you break even on a 2iar, but you win1 unit if playing a progression. If you flat bet you lose to a 3iar, but you beat a 3iar if you use a progression. So to win by flat betting, you need a very high number of 1s and very few anything else. With a progression you dramatically change the outcome, as you win on 1s, 2s and 3s, which are 87.5% of all events. Of course the loss on the other 12.5% of events is greater than flat betting, depending on exactly what stop triggers you put in place or when you decide to go OTR. This is not an endorsement of just mechanically playing S40 with a progression -- but if you are going to play S40 (or another NOR method), do first work out and consider HOW it will perform against all possible events under different betting progressions, and then chose the progression that gives you the best chance to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users brad01 Posted January 16, 2016 Users Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Short term setups only 11121121 - go for 1 opposite and move on 223 - go for 1 OTBL and move on 43 - go for a repeat and move on 2131 - go fo a SS and move on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users brad01 Posted January 17, 2016 Users Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 I do flat bet with NOR and in some cases use 12 progression either negative or positive. Here is what I just played at my casino: Roulette - Red/Black: 23111121112321113122325 I record ZZ on bottom as it helps me and consecutive multiples on top as it also helps me: MU: 131 ST: 23111121112321113122325 ZZ: 6522532222 Instantly you can look at each row and see characteristics: MU: Single multiples followed by 3+ multiples but no 2 multiples so far ST: Sections of S40 and OTBL - the end looked like a repeat section coming ZZ: lots of high ZZ's - 5's and 6's mixed with 2ZZ but until the end no 3 or 4 ZZ's Breaking the shoe into sections this is how I had it: ST: 23 - OTBL but this is where I entered and there was a strong repeat event which was undetermined before so I just sat on this ** 5 plays ** 111121112 - S40 section strong ** 11 plays ** 232 - OTBL section ** 7 plays ** 11131 - S40M1 / TBL section ** 7 plays ** 2232 - OTBL section ** 9 plays ** How I played it - I could see no MDB+ bets here or characteristics of MDB+ bias but pretty strong NOR bias for short term: setup 1 - 111121 - bet S40 1 bet win = +1 setup 2 - 23 - bet OTBL 1 play - win - +2 setup 3 - 1113 - s40M1 - I will say not a big fan of this but figured a bias was due - S40M1 1 play - win +3 setup 4 - 22 - OTBL - 2 plays as figured longer bias due and prepared to stake a 1,2 progression as in front and win rate good - WLW - +2 Score +5 Considering betting an MDB+ bet on the last event and also after all the multiples (5) and 1 would have won, other unconfirmed but not prepared to play around with a +5 result unless 100% sure and had more time. Hope this helps William - please let me know how you go with this type of approach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users brad01 Posted January 17, 2016 Users Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 One last thing William - by recording the length of plays you can see patterns too a couple of short biases MAY lead to a long bias coming and vice versa In that case you can go for an up as you win if you think its likely you will get 2 in a row or 2 of 3 or an up as you lose if you think you will get 1 of 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users brad01 Posted January 17, 2016 Users Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 Had a walk past bac tables on way out and short term NOR was alive and well there too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Looi Posted January 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 I am getting better now without flat bet. Only choose very good set up to enter. I think 20 hands from the beginning should be ok , what is your opinion. I target to make I or 2 unite and stop wait for few hands pass or longer and target 1 unite and stop . not to be aggressive.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Looi Posted January 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 I should try Brand01 method for short term trend, thanks brand01, I will try your method this few days and let you know my result Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users brad01 Posted January 17, 2016 Users Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 You should make some triggers for yourself which work Try some and adjust For me S40 / opposite - 1111 or 12112 - something like that OTBL - 22 or 32 or 23 - something like that S40 M1 - 313 or 3114 or something like that - many 2's before is good because maybe there will be none for a while r at least for 1 more bet Repeats: 43 or 24 or 42 - something like that SS - Strong side - 212 or 312 or 4241 or something like that Write them down and memorise and try them and adjust for yourself Remember - if there is opposite bias coming strongly - you only need 1 more opposite to come and you can win 1 unit Then keep doing the same for all triggers Once you get better try to pick the time to go for 2 or more units Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Looi Posted January 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 Yes, that is a way. With hit and run method I manage to make 20 unite and with 1,2,3 progression did not blow up yet. so far so good. NOR and MDB+ is ok so far so good. I have attached a shoe today, good for short trend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users brad01 Posted January 17, 2016 Users Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 Good to see you are thinking William: P1312122121151411313313112112 131212 = SS = 10 plays 2212 = OTBL = 7 plays 1211 = S40 = 5 plays ** too short ** 115141131331311 = S40M1 = 30 plays! (although without a progression the 3's would make it tough) 112112 = S40 = 8 plays Notice all playable biases last between 6 - 12 plays usually and then there is usually 1 long bias I in there every 3 plays or so. MDB+ (the way I play) = +4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeckam Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 Hi William If you play S40m3 1234, you will do very well but there are many progression risk play you need to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users brad01 Posted January 18, 2016 Users Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 The problem with NOR in original form is it bulldozes thru a shoe with a progression based on the ASSUMPTION a previous bias will continue Maybe there are shoes around that do that but I haven't seen too many. In that case if the bas changes that's where short term NOR makes sense. This is bet selection only. Progression is up to individual. I can handle a 2 bet to get thru a bump in the road or to maximise a good shoe but not more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Looi Posted January 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 originally I learn NOR is to bulldozer all the way, after playing for more than 50 shoes live internet dealer, I suffer about 100 unite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeckam Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 Brad Agree with you. To play nor thru a shoe. U need to be discipline on your win loss stops. So far I hv success in playing nor shoe in that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users brad01 Posted January 18, 2016 Users Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 Well done. I like to think of it like a soldier on the ground or a sniper. A soldier on the ground cannot see the enemy or even know exactly where they are. The use a lot of fire to keep the enemy at bay. A sniper can see everything and take aim patiently Or like a technical boxer vs a brawler. Brawler can win by overpowering somebody if they get the jump and get lucky. A technical boxer will think and adapt their style to what will win for them. Mayweather is like the perfect technical boxer of this generation. You know what his uncle / trainer said? The easiest way to get your ass knocked out is to try and knock someone out! I relate this to NOR when you try to win big fast its easy to lose fast! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avion Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 very wise words, concerning getting your ass knocked out, by trying to knock someone out, with the strategy of having a technical skill set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Users brad01 Posted January 20, 2016 Users Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 I had 35 amateur / semi pro fights boxing / kickboxing so I know a little about the game Was watching Mayweather vs Canelo Alvarez In about rd 8 Mayweather hit him with several good shots and then a hard straight right I could see it rattled Canelo pretty bad but hes tough and he tried not too show it I was like if Mayweather wants this by KO he could probably get it now Mayweather actually backed off and reset himself in the ring and ended up winning easily on points He is that disciplined he knows the game so well he knew that if he went for it theres a chance as he throws a punch Canelo being hurt might also throw a big punch out of desperation and all it takes is bad luck on timing and Mayweathers chin raises a little as he throws and he gets hit and its lights out Like they say its the punch you don't see that knocks you out as your brain just shuts down when it rattles inside your head and your body doesn't know its coming I see a lot of similarities between the fight game and this except when you lose its not physical its financial But the strategy is very similar and the hard training is similar Its you vs the casino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avion Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) Really good stuff Brad. The psychology of winning.......is definitely worthwhile in understanding and knowing. Especially for those who want to win. As a person who has engaged in a lot of sports, golf was the greatest challenge of all of them. Personally, baccarat is an even greater challenge. Edited January 21, 2016 by avion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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