Wendel

Hi gman, I have almost completely forgotten the length rules for zz runs playing the MDB systems. I had hoped they would be written in the NEW mdb rules thread. Are you letting the zz runs run to the end or are you following rules similar to the ST runs ? If you could point me to where the zz rules are written , I would appreciate it. Thanks Wendel

If we lose our opposite after 3 iar and win the bet back I would bet repeats until the run ended. The TT's occur before the tweak, so the consequences will be the same. Hopefully with high 3's we will get to OTB4L,or s1 before losing our prog. Higher 2's may have to come at the expens of 1's or 3's.

S40M1 may work for High 1's and 3's , IF we bet opposite after 3 iar instead of repeat when 1's and 3's are high. Then bet back OTR if we lose the opposite bet. In the shoes I see it wouldn't hurt to bet opposite after 3 iar always with s40m1. Its purpose is no longer to be a streak system . Right?

How about just going with the most recent event(s) when there is a tough call ?

Hi Gman, I really like your practise method with EXCEL. This also seems to be a viable way to preserve our own shoes. If only we had macros to translate BTC shorthand (i.e. P2211) to comma delimited format (P,P,B,B,P,P) or directly into EXCEL.

Whew !!!! . He had me worried there for a minute. Thanks, Ellis

Hi Ellis, so far your MDB rules are superb, but there is no mention of zz runs. Are we playing zz runs the same way as the ST runs ? Thanks

upstream on a river, upwind on a lake

Hi Ellis, Thank you for your comments. I am beginning to see that if I am NOT playing pre shuffled cards in Vegas then I am basically paddling (to be polite) upwind. Further, I have available to me 2 casinos . 1 has 2 mini bac tables and I has 1 EZ Bac table, so I have virtually no table selection. I mainly practise against shoes that i have personally played at these casinos and shoes that are posted on the forum. The better game is at the EZ bac table . If I exit a shoe early ,that probably ends my session, because killing an hour between games is not an easy thing to do in a casino without blowing some of your winnings. Blackjack here offers little table selection. Last evening , I waited around for an hour for players to show up. I started playing when 1 player showed up. After 3/4 of a shoe , I quit(+0) and didn't even wait for the next shoe(all the players had left). I will put the suggestions you have made into practise as opportunity presents itself. Thanks again.

I always thought that we should ignore the first event of a shoe,because it may be a fragment of a larger event created by the cut. My first choice at 9 would have been S40M1 which if played through would have won, but I think the subsequent 2's would have put me on to OTB4L. I think I played this shoe that way , but the outcome is buried in a pile of practise shoes somewhere.

hi GolfGirl, when you start a new "post to thread " or "reply with quote" there will be a box marked "Go Advanced in your bottom rh corner. Press that and go to halfway down the next screen and press "manage attachments" . That should get you started. Just follow the prompts on the next screen. Wendel. p.s. on re-reading your post, I think that you may have already gone that far and are experiencing "technical difficulties" as I am.

I have been at or close to -5 in practise and in live play most of the time. My latest theory on this topic is that if we don't take our stop losses seriously in practise , we are less likely to take them seriously in live play. After all we see in practise that -5 isn't the end of the world, and more often than not we can recover by playing perfectly. Having said said that, I have gone past -5 in the casino, using flat bets until a lost 2 bet won't put me at -5 or lower and recovered everytime (not that many times and despite not playing perfectly). My next thought is that when we are trying to recover , flat betting may be counterproductive.

So, when SAP indicates a change of systems, would we end the shoe there ,draw a line on the scorecard, abandon any on going sp's & reset everything as though we were beginning a new shoe ?

I have thought for some time that what we are trying to do is get past these "weeds" to the parts of the shoe that we like . There is not much money in betting ATR (beyond 1-2). A lot of my recent wins have come from hitting a moderate to long run close to the top (zz or ST). otherwise i would have been lucky to be even.

I will give it a try !! I am sorry , but I am having trouble uploading and attaching the diagram for this post. Scenario 1 a sequence of b1312 the bets starting at play 3 are B1 B2 B1 P2 since the third bet won our next bet is 2 opposite the winning bank bet This is just a normal S40 opposite bet The last bets do what a single 3 unit bet used to do and we are even. If the 4th bet bet loses we are down 4 instead of 6 going on the run. If we were playing m2 we would be down 3 going on the run. Scenario 2 a sequence of b1412 starting at play 3 are B1 B2 B1 P0 since the third bet Lost our next bet is on the run . 0 if it is our first on the run bet We are down 4 going on the run. Overall our worst case is down 4 Does this help ?

I thought I would run this past the S40M3 guys who want a secondary prog Play s40m3 with a 121 prog (all ATR) If the third bet wins (having lost the first 2 bets) bet 2 units opposite the the third bet (or according to shoe history for the 2 unit bet) If the third bet loses go OTR with the standard 0123 secondary prog .

Personally, I prefer to do as you did. Having just gotten out of an ATR situation, I don't look forward to going back into it against a potentially stronger run.

Hi, At Play 48, wouldn't the normal OTB4L play be a P1 ?

Hi gman, I agree with the BAS40 solution I found a discrepancy at play 6 in the BaS40SM1 solution. If your intention was to continue the previous run, the run was stopped by the banker win and the 0 bet at 5 was a loser, I think 6 should be a p1 (opposite the banker win at play 5. This would change the next handful of plays at least , so I didn't continue.

I have tried OTBL4 M1 NOR (not +5). You don't have a problem with 4's and 5's but with 3's . Other than that it works great. I have been meaning to revisit that using a 1-2-1-2 prog to make it easier to get out of the issues with 3 iar's. good luck.

I don't think it matters if it isn't a pre shuffled shoe. All we are trying to do is practise the mechanics of s40M1 +5. Besides , this seems to be a low risk mode free way to pick an average win of 5 units.

Hi Gman, Could you please let me have a blank copy of this form (without the circles ) so that I could draw my own circles on it ? Thanka

there is no run at play 7 ,just a sporadic 1 , any play ending in R(un) does not apply. just go opposite, which is the primary bet of s40. The sporadic 1 terminated the 2iar on the player side. Well, actually there is a 2iar zz. play the opposite.

I think you would have to wait for the current run to end and restart after the next 2iar. Run it past Ellis. p.s. OTR is 1 unit.