kramden

Hey trb, I posted it like a scoreboard. Those are not chops. They are vertical results just as they would be on the board. Here they are in sequential order: BBB PP B PP BB PP and does that mean you would not use a progression if you lost the first bet?

OK guys, You walk into a casino with one table. You see this on the toteboard: b p b p b p b p 0 p b p b or we can transcribe it as: B321222 (obviously the zero is a tie--posting will not allow for a space for a single So the question is, would you sit down and bet and what would the bets be? Please answer me with your reasoning. I wish to have as many answers as possible from everyone please, as I am still figuring something out. Consider me as a "newbie".

Hey Quiz, Dont get upset. Talk to Mike and contact me. As we say in Jersey (you know)... Talk to you later BRO

So im just listening to sirius fifties on five and I heard Th Twist, by HANK Ballard. WTF??? another twist?? I knew it bu just forgot. Then it was Having a Party bt Sam Cooke. Another classic!! Do you know that Sam inspired countless musicians into what they are today? Some say without him music would be drastically different than it is now. Yes a young man who was shot to death by a racist woman after he beat her at baccarat is responsible for changing the mysic genre. these songs made me smile, just as I smile when I win money, my own way. And I thought, What we need here is another Katchaz original to liven up the joint. I mean, he thinks out of the box, doesnt adhere to a one track thinking, and always answers your questions. Wonder where he is now? Playing, winning? I bet he could even lift up the 4d. We should pay him? to post at least once a week. I love his threads! How about you? Well im here for entertainment now, as much as for bac knowledge. In a good mood... Always!! Good luck all!!!

Now for you Glenn I give you this idea, as I dont really need the testers. (but would like to onow if there is something i am missing): Try to stop focusing on how to beat the runs. To me the runs are the detriment of the whole NOR application. I am not going to spell it out on the open forum, but what if there was a way to make runs a break even situation? Then all you had to do was focus on playing the "non runs"???? Now to NOR's credit, it tells you how todo that. AND it bases much of its theory on the fact that ot4bl is the backbone of record bac profits. Those bastards!! They are going to pay for their insolance!! (spell checker please). LOL

Hey Glenn, You are a hard worker. Im sure its appreciated by more people than will ever say so. So thanks. Two things have happened to the testers. Either they gave up because the 4d is a failure or they are making their winning superbets and becoming rich. I guess the smart thing todo would be to keep their mouths shut. The only problem I have with it is they were given the info from this forum and its founder. It is pretty foul that we cant get closure either way. And believe me I am no whiny beaatch looking to know what my ex girlfriend is doing today. But whats right is right. The only other explanation is it was a hoax from the beginning. However, the theory is sound and it does track the game like never before. So shame on the testers. Until proven otherwise.

SOL??? That is not the Way to the American Dream!! There are other things that noone has even noticed. (at least noone is openly talking about them) I will not spell them out again. And hey! Where are the two testers? Mr Davis gave them the keys to the car and now they stole it, never to be heard from again?? WTF?? Now that IS the American Way. Once you "make it" to hell with your neighbors. Am I right or wrong here? But if someone takes the time to read, to take me seriously, I would contribute to those people only. Like Mr. Davis, I have a headache. I enjoy this forum, but it isnt moving anywhere after the crash of the 4d. Which is still, IMO, worth exploring. It just might need a new "twist". At any rate, the mm approach is the most important aspect of it right now. IMO. Can anyone answer my questions about a comparison of the 1-2-3 versus a 1-2-4? This may act as some excedrine. :)

So onward... Since AGAIN my whole post was erased... short and sweet... Mr Davis, if you could only pick one, one size fits all, progression to use over and over again no matter what...taking into account all risks versus rewards... what would it be?? I would assume, from this and the blackjack forum it would be the 1-2-3 ?? I know, I know that all progressions will resolve if played out but I need to be realsitic. And we are talking about altered mathematical outcomes in the short or long run anyway. Also llease discuss the differences between 1-2-3 and 1-2-4 as far as mathematical risks and rewards. What are the probabilities of a blow out in how many tries vs the profits mathematically speaking. And would not the extra one unit profit of all wins on the 1-2-4 give us any better advantage while still not violating our stop loss. Taking into account versus not taking into account our "superior" bet selection. Now I am not trying to reinvent the wheels of NOR. Rather just looking to cover some potential potholes of my own style. Thank you.

Hey Glenn, Thanks for the reply. Yes I have applied Norm's 1-2 loop to the best of my ability and it CAN hold its own. But it is still lacking something. I have (believe what you will) seemingly beaten the game Flat Betting. But not without its costs. Costs that are becoming too hard to accept. It comes down to the player. They player must beat this game with his own talents. Just like with anything else in life, very few have the talents to succed at anything they choose. But everyone has a talent for something. So what is the application then? Thats the question. Math helps to figure it out. So does keen observation. Did anyone notice the posts where Kevin and I both commented on the percieved "strength" of concurrent hands? Gamblers gamble. Players play, but only at the top of their game when hey have it confidently figured out. And they always look for weaknesses in the other team. They never stop. Most people blindly trust their money to "financial advisors". If these peoe knew what thet were doing they wouldnt be doing it fo your fees. But then again, most people dont have the talent to figure out the game or how its played. hope this is a pep talk to those of you who have the talent.

Appreciate your answer Mr Davis. It also reaffirms my thought process on this issue I am refining. Knowing that the shuffles facilitate ot4bl AND that that also means that they must then facilitate very few "long runs"... it would then be plausible that they have changed the "long term" math of the game also. I then conclude that while playing it could be noted i the back of my head that the probability of a switch to the other side of p or b, increase as the run of p or b in creases. It would appear that this happens far more than the 50/50 probability of the next hand would have you believe. Now, how to apply this to my "system"?? More questions to follow, as I need to clear up a few more things. Thanks!!

So, the point of my post. A quick explanation... It has been spoken here that flat bettig cannot win long term. The math backs it up. So far, I do not find that to be true. However, my latest problem that I must solve for my play is the negative effects flat betting has on my body. Mental ( as you can all probably tell about me) and physical. I look around at People at the tables and see what my future might look like. The game is slow. Mentally and physically draining. Hour after hour as life is passing bye. As a flat bettor I must sit and yoyo for hours on end sometimes. This is no good for me. So its my new motivation to find a solution to. Now, a potential runaway progression is a non starter for me. What is left?? "Middling Maybe"? Now the math of the game says its impossible to beat. I believe that is the sad fact of reality!!! Again Reality!!! Sorry, to say it. Reality!!! So you must find another application. The Basis of NOR is correct!!! Can it be expanded on. Well we are damn well trying. We must look behind evey tree and under every rock. More to come. possibly. But you must listen. And no gamblers please. I am in it for the money! I hate to play. hate to wast time in a dungeon Of a casino. Where people are so vile that they are dieing of COPD but they roll their oxygen tanks with them on the second of the month to lose their social security checks. Sorry for my thoughts. I must be in a mood. Stock market is at another high and I need to lighten up my positions. Love you all!! Peace.

Now, there are no such things as stupid questions. And, you can learn something from A.N.y.T.H.I.NG.. This forum is the icing on the cake. At least for me. It is sadly true that most people ate looking for a perfect mechanical system to win. It does not exist. But i you read between the lines and keep looking for annomalies in "the system"(that is "the game"), you may find the building blocks for something that is pretty damn close to what you need. Like K says, its all here. And if you disagree, then ask the auestions and it will be added.

I must admit I am not much of a dancer(got no rhythm). So Since I never saw any "mathematical" advantage to the twist, I havnt yet cut a rug. I see it as a side bet to keep occupied, like maybe betting on the first hand of every shoe played. Each bet is 50/50 and will resolve to a one bet if using u1d1 WITH a large enough bankroll. You can also play it using the last hand of any shoe. Or the second hand to the 3rd power. You see, I am probably the only person on this forum who was traine to beat the game using a different formula. However it is not easy and it involves flat betting. I have posted my "observations" of the game many times. It seems noone has picked up on them. The person who trained me had some advice: When you set out to make up a sytem, which by the wAy, no mechanical system will beat this game, you start with a problem then solve it, then rest and look for collateral problems , then solve them, Rinse and Repeat until you have the best system you cane get.

Mr. Davis (and any/all math guys), If the baccarat math of long term play is irrrrrrrr-refutable, And 50 percent of all results are ones, etc. etc. ... Is there any mathematical proof that thise percentages can be skewed long term by shuffle manipulation at lets say the same casino? For instance, if casino A is shuffling a certain way, or at least always manipulating their shuffles, AND I only play every game at casino A, because maybe I like their buffet the best or I am stalking a certain cocktail waitress or something, would then the long rerm math of 1's,2's,3's etc be skewed for me? This is actually a serious question that I would like the answer to please. I am working on something that requires the above answer. (Sort of a horse WITH a name)(name yet to be decided) Thank youse all.

Hello Kevin, Would you mind commenting on how you apply your three tiered? unit sizes? Do you stagger them? Or just go by random application based on mood? Do you run three at the same time? Just wondering if you found any sound application that gives you a better win rate. Oh and please feel free to entertain us with some movie or musical references in your response, as I find the true value in any day to be a smile. As usual, THANK YOU !!!!!!!

Wow!! I must say, with the highest respect an gratitude, so as not to be taken out of the Positive context i which I mean this: There are some extremely powerful messages in just these couple of posts by the writers. The messages are "between the lines" and o the surface. There have been alot of faint hints which are some of the most powerful teachings I ever read on this forum in this and other recent threads. Lets say over the last thirty days or so. I am very very grateful that the messages have been posted. Please dont ask for MY interpretation of these messages, as human beings see things differently. But I think it would serve every player well to put the last months worth of threads over a microscope and contemplate. Good luck everyone!! Thanks again to all who contribute here!!

I agree Brendan. I see the light. So my question is: Would it not then be the same whether you were playing the twist or any other betting method? Over time, wouldnt everything resolve equally, or is there more of an advantage betting combined "events" like a 4-2 ? (in the short term) And if there is a distinct advantage, how much of an advantage is it? Anyone... Thanks forthe input!!

Hi Stanislaus, OO is the opposite of the hand 3 hands back. TT is the same as the hand 3 hands back. So if the hands went P P B, then OO would be opposite of the first P, or a banker bet. TT would be the same a the first P, a player bet. Or if the hands went P P B P , then we would say that the last hand of P was a TT (same as the third hand before it)

No cricket chirping. haha Blowing snow and shoveling ice. Thinking about the twist while I do so. Formulating ????? LOL

Damn!! BRAVO !!! For he's a jolly good fellow... Thanks man!! You are alright!! Encore, encore!!!

Keep it coming Baby!! (please) I may even hire a guy to plow my driveway this time instead of me digging out the foot of snow/ice out there!!! LOL

Let's take it another "potential" step then... Would it then be true that all 1st hands of a shoe would resolve to the same numbers? Ie. 50 percent of all first hands would be 1's ??? 2nd hands??? 20th hands????? Kachatz !!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ??????????

Good Morning Kevin, and everyone else, Are you trying to say that the key to the twist is to keep some sort of a running SAP count for every shoe we play? Like for example: during a 2 week playing trip to Las Vegas??? and...Forgive me if I still am off track with this SAP stuff. Thanks!! Also, one of the longer term things I am trying to figure out about this game is variance from trip to trip. Why is it that if I win easily one trip, the next one usually evens out and is a tough trip. Or if I win 2x iar then I lose a couple trips. But, overall I increase my bankroll, applying my game, over TIME... I have internally been thinking about this for a long time. Maybe I just couldn't wrap my arms around it... Same idea??

Well, I don't see it... I have just poured over about 25 shoes (some partials that I quit early). The number of events seem logical but I just cant see a logical pattern of what to do with them. Shoes with more than the standard number of 3's, for instance, have a couple intermingled 4's in there. How would SAP tell me to bet that a 3 will not become a 4? It seems more accurate with a shoe rich in 2's. But who knows? Any progression averaged out over a long period would have to be something that would itself, average out mildly without a large uptick. (close to flat betting?) Also, I wonder if this can be averaged out with shorter shoes mixed in. (just going by events in groups of 36?) At least one casino near me uses 6 deck shoes. I am very curious as to the application of "the twist". I would love to add to the math conversation, but I just can't see it. Just thoughts. I will be quiet now...

4D+... 4D plus !!!!!!!!!!!!!! yay!!!!! "No sleep Till Brooklyn" for me tonite !!!!