I Win With Ellis' Baccarat System!!

[Archer]

NOT Just kidding. Where are all the players adding their testimonials praising Ellis' strategy telling how many units, percentage shoes won, average bet size, how many shoes played.

Where are al these guys advising folks to pay Ellis $500 for his method (s) (s) (s) (s).

Archer XX--------------------->

[wolfat]

Hi Archer,

I'm one of them and there are a lot, probably it doesn't worth answering you as you've already a strong opinion, no problem I stay with my winnings you with yours, everybody is happy!!!

andrea

[wolfat]

First,

I don't wanna sell you anything, I have no interest in doing this;

Second,

SAP is a system that required a lot of effort and developement from the main author and other private members that... (open your ears)... collaborate all together to perfect the system. Our forum is a place where members collaborate and share infos and improvements, from all "brains at work" often grows something of value. This is the lone forum that I know doing that!

Be happy with your winnings.

andrea

[ECD]

Most of our private members seldom read the public forum. No reason to. We are plenty busy in the private forum where our motto is 20 heads are better than 1. Whenever we are looking at a potential improvement it is far better to judge by the results of many players rather than one. We are a large world wide group fully and seriously dedicated to a common purpose.

Andrea, for instance lives in Italy. I recall a year or so ago when one of our A.C. players remarked that Andrea must be getting easier shoes over there in Italy. Andrea immediately jumped on a plane to AC and killed them for three days straight. Oh yeah, playing SAP.

There are pages of testimonials on the public forum by our members. But I don't expect our members to jump over to the public forum every time some new crackpot posts. The crackpot usually defeats himself W/O our help. Look at Jim, the Silverthorn guy. He actually became a member after we demonstrated that Silverthorn was in truth another crackpot selling the 400 year old Fibonaci. Geez, it never ends. Too many overnight "experts". I liked it a whole lot better before the internet when the way to sell was to go to the casino and demonstrate your wears in front of large audiences. That separated real teachers from wannabes real quick. Today anybody with an index finger can suddenly become a "pro." Demonstrate in the casino like I do. Or shut the hell up!

Edited December 7, 2008 by ECD

[ECD]

Not that I'm a proponent of these ridiculous betting schemes all over the internet ALL of which are many many years old, some centuries, but let's take a closer look at Archers claim that a progressive bettor must win half his bets just like a flat bettor. Lets look at a simple 3 play shoe. After all, a smart player makes his own decision of how long a shoe is. He knows better than to let the casino dictate this all important factor. Let's make our shoe BBP.

Let's take a simple 123 prog up 1 when you lose not that I would ever advise you to do that. Lets say our player makes the mistake of playing Player.

So OK, he loses his 1 bet, loses his 2 bet and wins his 3 bet. So OK he's even. BUT he just lost twice as many bets as he won, yet he's even. How can that be if Archer is right and he must win half the hands? But where does the flat bettor stand when he does exactly the same thing and loses twice as many bets as he won?????

Now, lets play the same "shoe" in a way I WOULD recommend U1D2 M2 which is, of course, net betting. Your bets on P are again 123 but your bets on Bank are 121. Now you are up 2 units in 3 plays and your average bet size per play was 2/3 of a unit. Yep, less than 1 unit. Yet you are up 2 units. Meanwhile, how did our flat bettor make out? And what was his average bet size? Or maybe he just sat there. And how long are they going to let him just sit there? At Foxwood, the largest casino in the world, the answer is ZERO. In Puerto Rico the answer is zero.

Now I'm not a big proponent of progressions but I know for an absolute fact that they have their place in professional gambling. Advantage betting also has its place as long as the advantage is real and not just in your head.

For instance, I won in 8 deck AC BJ every day 4-5 days a week for 3 years using advantage betting at first base in clumped cards and progressive betting at 3rd base in random cards. But the advantage at first base was real because I Knew when I was most likely to get a first card 10. A first card ten gives you a 74% chance of winning the hand. The advantage was REAL. But I played a 1 4 6 up as you lose progression at third when the cards were random usually early in the day. Why. Because the dealer gets both of her cards right after you got each of your cards and therefore your cards are most like the dealer's of all cards on the table. When you are getting similar cards to the dealer's you have a very strong tendency to swap wins with the dealer. When you are swapping wins with the dealer your BEST betting scheme is a 3 bet negative progression. Now a lot of card counting gurus (who never play) complained about my betting style. But the proof is in the pudding. I won every day and I never saw a single card counter EVER win including their best player Kenny Houston who was playing there the same years I played. In fact he ended up quitting the game entirely when he finally realized that card counting is a myth. I'd be up $3000 at the same table he was down $3000. And guess what? He was betting bigger progressions than I was. Yep. Lets sweep away the semantics. When you are betting up with the count YOU are betting a progression plain and simple. They just don't call it a progression but that is exactly what it is. When the count is going up, YOU are losing. LOWS are falling. But you know what? You can beat these idiots every day of the week and they STILL argue with you. That's how brain washed they are. OH, and flat bettors have no chance in BJ whatsoever. On their best day the perfect Basic Strategy player only wins 43% of the hands and he MUST bet every hand. Where's a flat bettor going with that?

So Archer says he knows which hands he has the advantage on in Bac. To that I say Bullshit. There is no ten advantage like there is in BJ. The next hand is 50 50 regardless of what the history of the shoe is. We had a system we called The Asian System. It bet perfectly by the history of the shoe. It did everything exactly right except one. It didn't win. Why? Its just as John said: every play is completely independant of the prior plays. Now Archer says the game is 50/50. Next he says there are advantage plays. Well sorry but you can't have it both ways. The only way I can fathom an advantage is to bet with the house. But Archer says the house has no advantage so he obviously isn't doing that. History is the only thing left and we already know that doesn't work. That leaves only one thing. Bullshit!

[Archer]

Hi Archer,

I'm one of them and there are a lot, probably it doesn't worth answering you as you've already a strong opinion, no problem I stay with my winnings you with yours, everybody is happy!!!

andrea

OK, I realize there will be those who will make money using even a negative expectation strategy. That was the point of my bell curve analogy. A few will win until they get into statistic significance; a few will lose big, and most will kind of hand around the center (break even, up a little down a little - while they pay the vig). So good for you Andrea.

Archer

[Archer]

Most of our private members seldom read the public forum. No reason to. We are plenty busy in the private forum where our motto is 20 heads are better than 1. Whenever we are looking at a potential improvement it is far better to judge by the results of many players rather than one. We are a large world wide group fully and seriously dedicated to a common purpose."

Haha! 20 heads are better than one? Same old baloney but a good marketing ploy. "large world wide group" Hahahah! Still workiing on a method that is evolving using the input of your group? "Let's try it this way, oh, I tried this last week, lets try it this way." Same old Ellis.

If you had a perfect or near perfect method it wouldn't change every week! If you wanted to "try" a new approach you would write a program for it and plug it into the thousands of shoes you have recorded.

Archer XX--------------------->

[Archer]

What makes me wonder is why would you want to sell a system for in the first place, if its a good system and it works well for the creator why wouldn't he sit on it and make his money this way and just share it with others who want to listen ?

I see this nice lady once in a while at the casino and i try to tell her follow me if you want to make money, i explained the plan and percentages and im sure she could see it worked but you know what she didn't really look than interested instead she just said i think its going to be banker next !! you cant teach another gambler new tricks i think..

My system works for me , i work full time and pro part time this balance seems to be a good combo since i work hard in my day job i still retain the value of money so in my pro job i dont have the greed feeding me, not everyone will have what it takes to use and win with a system so good luck and i can tell you for free how you can win at baccarat just read my tread !!

Good for you. I haven't read your thread, kid, sorry, but I will take the time to do so.

ArcherXX--------------------->

[ECD]

OK, I realize there will be those who will make money using even a negative expectation strategy. That was the point of my bell curve analogy. A few will win until they get into statistic significance; a few will lose big, and most will kind of hand around the center (break even, up a little down a little - while they pay the vig). So good for you Andrea.

Archer

Geez Arch, It's not an accident. Andrea has been playing SAP for years and plays all the time. It is the same for many others on the private forum. But you need a true mathematical edge, not some whim. SAP has that. No other site on the internet has a system with a true mathematical edge. I doubt if any ever will. Live with it.

[Archer]

Geez Arch, It's not an accident. Andrea has been playing SAP for years and plays all the time. It is the same for many others on the private forum. But you need a true mathematical edge, not some whim. SAP has that. No other site on the internet has a system with a true mathematical edge. I doubt if any ever will. Live with it.

OK all you SAP players. How many of you are in private forum? Post number of real games played, average unit win, and % shoes won. If you all came on and posted your grand results Ellis would be very grateful because lots of people would send Ellis the dough.

Go ahead Ellis, ask them to post.

Archer XX-------------------->

PS Take me up on my free no risk offer Ellis. Send me SAP, I will write a program and give it to you free of charge and you can test against 1000's of shoes and see the results. If it wins I will send you $500.00. You get a way to offer a money back guarantee because you can prove it's results.

Archer XX-------------------->

[Archer]

Whats SAP ??

Isn't that the name of Ellis' latest?

[aegis21]

PS Take me up on my free no risk offer Ellis. Send me SAP, I will write a program and give it to you free of charge and you can test against 1000's of shoes and see the results. If it wins I will send you $500.00. You get a way to offer a money back guarantee because you can prove it's results.

Archer XX-------------------->

Just so you don't think I am not a programmer. Here is a link to a program I wrote for the group to use as a practice program. It is disabled, copyrighted, and encrypted. I just don't have the time to make changes and fix bugs like I used to. To busy answering stupid posts like this one!

http://atochome.com/atochome1/

[ECD]

Archer nobody here needs to prove anything to you. You lost all credibility at the outset. We already have professional programmers and test everything 1000 shoes. Nobody here needs or wants you or believes you. Get lost or I really will bar you. You are a complete waste of everyone's time. Go do your flat bet thing. We don't care and the casinos will love you.

[ECD]

Whats SAP ??

Thats our private 2 Hi system. It's not on the public forum. Your highest bet is 2. Your total bets avg only 40 to 45 units a shoe. Probably less than Archer bets. Your max loss is 8 and your win % is about 83%. And we don't bet progressions inspite of what Archer claims. He has no idea what he's talking about.

[ECD]

Again, our table bets are either 0, 1 unit, or 2 units, totaling 40 to 45 units in most shoes. Our max loss is 8. We can hit =40 and =30 is common. But we don't bet in a progressive style. In other words we don't bet 1 because we lost 0 and we don't bet 2 because we lost 1. At the end of the shoe you usually find that you bet 1 unit the most. Now, optionally, you can raise your bet down a run if you want to when you find yourself in a very streaky shoe with lots of long runs. So instead of betting 2222 down a Bank 8 in a row you might bet 2234. But most of our players don't bother with this option. Our best players carried an avg of 10 for 2 years but when you are still learning your average will be closer to 6. But recognize that your avg. per shoe is not the most important factor with a 2 Hi system. The most important factor is that as your Bankroll increases, you can slowly raise your base unit eventually all the way to half the table max. So, like I say, "Yeah, 8 units doesn't sound like much but what if they are $1000 units? And what if they are $5000 units.

But I think our 83% avg win rate (our best players are much higher) is also not the most important factor. Perhaps our most important factor is our avg, loss. Every system ever designed, can suffer what we call a casastrophic loss. This occurs when the player ends up betting against the most common event. We never know what the most common event will be in a shoe. And players must include their fair share of catastrophic losses in their overall results. This brings even the best systems down to break even in the long run just as Archer says. However SAP can never suffer a catastrophic loss because, by design, SAP can never lose to the most common event. In fact it can't lose to the second most common event either. This brings our avg loss way down to about a -4. This greatly improves our overall result at the end of the day. I think that is SAP's crowning achievement. Other systems can win more but they can also lose more. A lot more. Not SAP. The idea is to keep your winnings. SAP is the very best way to do just that. Oh, BTW, you'll get your fair share of +30 shoes too. They always help!

[Archer]

your betting 40 - 45 times in an 8 deck shue, how much do you bet per hand and whats your winnings at the end of a shue ?

I think I already said. 1 unit, 3 units a shoe, 80% win rate. Sorry if that isn't good enough for you.

[ECD]

He was Asking me Arch. Nobody cares what you do. Hey kid, that last reply was Archer's. I wouldn't make such a rude reply. Hey Arch, what casino lets you sit there and bet 3 times a shoe?

[Archer]

He was Asking me Arch. Nobody cares what you do. Hey kid, that last reply was Archer's. I wouldn't make such a rude reply. Hey Arch, what casino lets you sit there and bet 3 times a shoe?

Oh, sorry, my bad - thought he was asking me. You were asking me what casino allows 3 bets a shoe? Don't know, sorry, can't help you there. Why do you want to know that?

[CdnChamer]

PS Take me up on my free no risk offer Ellis. Send me SAP, I will write a program and give it to you free of charge and you can test against 1000's of shoes and see the results. If it wins I will send you $500.00. You get a way to offer a money back guarantee because you can prove it's results.

Archer XX-------------------->

Sorry to rain on your parade, but....... This has already been accomplished on a spreadsheet well over a year ago. We already know the success rate of SAP.

Please update yourself by reading through all the threads.

PS; I remember many years ago when I was Y & D like you..(Young & Dumb), I was so distraught at a BAC table one night that I sat a whole shoe without a single bet placed, I could not believe they let me do that, but the rule in a local casino here was as long as you had chips in front of you, you were allowed to sit unless there is a waiting list... But then! I met Ellis and learned SAP and other successful methods on this Forum... I no longer experienced the bijeebies.. Ha ha... I now hold my head high as I walk into all casinos knowing that I am an advantage player with the best BAC methods known on the planet. I can switch from system to system depending what the character of the shoe dictates. The Asians all talk about me as I pick up and leave the table with my winnings, they follow me at the table, dealers ask me to teach them how to play the game, I receive comps and am complimented on how well I play from dealers and pit bosses. Bottom line, with Ellis's help, you get respect from all others. Ellis doesn't need your $500 offer, in fact it sucks and an insult, so why don't you go post your so called system or whatever you are dreaming about on other Baccarat forums and join all the losers there..... You are not welcome here.

CC

[DarkValefor]

Just so you don't think I am not a programmer. Here is a link to a program I wrote for the group to use as a practice program. It is disabled, copyrighted, and encrypted. I just don't have the time to make changes and fix bugs like I used to. To busy answering stupid posts like this one!

http://atochome.com/atochome1/

your software need serial to install

[DarkValefor]

He was Asking me Arch. Nobody cares what you do. Hey kid, that last reply was Archer's. I wouldn't make such a rude reply. Hey Arch, what casino lets you sit there and bet 3 times a shoe?

professor beside manually edit a excel or table to see a result is there a better way to test on live play result?

without all the script and coding in programming

[MVSeahog]

Really guys?

A five year old thread?

MVS

[TrainerGriff]

Really guys?

A five year old thread?

MVS

LOL! 10 characters.