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This is an actual casino shoe from another post/board...

Black ink is AD... Blue ink is the opposite...

Did have a 6 high bet at hand 46.. won.. :rolleyes:

Only had one 2.2... so swapped for 1 play only... at play 50...

Interesting because I had played it OTB4L and going OTR after 2 losses... came up with +16 playing that way...

ADN brought it to +20 !! :biggrin:

(sorry about the size... Windows Paint won't allow me to shrink)

post-2314-14500261341175_thumb.jpg

Edited by Audionut
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I think hands 28 thru 34 are placed incorrectly.

Also, I'll run my first "test" shoe under ADN tonight with my standard template to see how it looks and make sure I've got the play down correctly.

I'll try to get it posted up tonight.

MVS

Edited by MVSeahog
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Yea, your right as well, MVS... I didn't put my bet in the right place so it screwed up the rest of the run....:mad:

Have to run out for a while... will look at it to see what it does to the over-all score...:frown:

Initially it looks like i come out a lot better... like +18 at hand 33 instead of +7?

Edited by Audionut
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This is an actual casino shoe from another post/board...

Black ink is AD... Blue ink is the opposite...

Well, they are both AD. Both colors follow the same AD rules. I don't see you betting across after repeats. That is why you did poorly on the straight runs. You should have swapped at hand 37???? THAT is a 2,2. You need to go back and study the sample shoe some more and the rules. A repeat is when the circle is on the same side as the last circle. An opposite is on the opposite side. Each color prog bets down from its last bet after an opposite and across after a repeat. But I'm glad you posted that shoe so we can get you straightened out. Try it again after a little more study.

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Audionut, played correctly to the rules, your shoe scores +21 in spite of the fact that you lose a 6 entry and a 7 entry and finally win your 8 entry, hands 40 through 43. But your worst position in the whole shoe was -2 at play 4..

I think this shoe would actually score higher played 3 Hi or even 4 Hi but +21 is an excellent score and your shoe demonstrates the recouperative power of ADN. Try it again and if you still can't get it I'll post it for you. I'd say your shoe is a vote to play 3 or 4 Hi.

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Every time I hear good posts I jump back on the ADN and when I do, I don't get very good results. I was doing this on Bet Phoenix. I finally stopped at hand 40 because I couldn't take it anymore. Then I redid the shoe and the setup was for RD1 in the Big Three. With ADN I was -11. Doing it the hard way I was +16. You guys try it.

B313342211

P334121312

Maybe I did something wrong.

Edited by jerseyslim
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Every time I hear good posts I jump back on the ADN and when I do, I don't get very good results. I was doing this on Bet Phoenix. I finally stopped at hand 40 because I couldn't take it anymore. Then I redid the shoe and the setup was for RD1 in the Big Three. With ADN I was -11. Doing it the hard way I was +16. You guys try it.

B313342211

P334121312

Maybe I did something wrong.

Well, I got a -7 out of it but held back three wagers to a 3-Hi at hand 17, 19 and 20.

At hand 18 it was -11 and then it just floated between -11 and -14 until hand 37 where it appeared to break out of continuous +3 and -3 loop. Very odd.

MVS (please, anybody, correct this as needed!!!)

post-2595-14500261341919_thumb.jpg

Edited by MVSeahog
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Every time I here good posts I jump back on the ADN and when I do, I don't get very good results. I was doing this on Bet Phoenix. I finally stopped at hand 40 because I couldn't take it anymore. Then I redid the shoe and the setup was for RD1 in the Big Three. With ADN I was -11. Doing it the hard way I was +16. You guys try it.

B313342211

P334121312

Maybe I did something wrong.

Well it was a very tough shoe for ADN which was at +3 at play 40 by the current rules.

But, as I said this morning, when you see a strong bias play it. This shoe had 6 runs in the first 7 events and only one 1 in the first 18 plays and was full of sporadic 1's. RD1 was an excellent choice esp if you waited for 2 confirmed 1's before betting opposites as we discussed earlier. F2 is also a good choice and did +11 which is quite good for 40 plays. But this shoe is full of the rarest thing in Baccarat which is runs following runs which is the best situation for any form of RD or RD1 or RD2. Can't miss.

But ADN mostly spins its wheels on threes and your 3's were sky high running more than twice normal.

You did the right thing playing RD1.

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Ellis..............to me the thing is you have to decide at some time during a shoe, which mode you want to go into. To me, I've narrowed it down to system40, RD1, and F2. Anything other than that I think you're really splitting hairs, and this isnn't really a hair splitting game. You will never by choice, hit the exact mode at the most optimum time. If you do it's by accident. Those three methods will work nicely with just about any shoe with I think system40 being by far the most versitile and can cover up a lot of mistakes. I can't really say how ADN is going to perform during a shoe. I'm not sure just exactly when I should be using it because it jumps back and forth all over the place. At least the the basic 3 I mentioned I know how they will perform and when they won't perform. Obviously I've just leaned tha ADN isn't good with streaky shoes. But at this point, I'm not sure exactly when I should apply it so I'm sticking with the 3 I mentioned and take whatever it gives me. If I lose, then I really know why. When I lose with ADN, I'm left scratching my head and asking why. I've got to shelve working on ADN because I've just found it to be very frustrating yet it has it's times of brilliance.

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Ellis..............to me the thing is you have to decide at some time during a shoe, which mode you want to go into. To me, I've narrowed it down to system40, RD1, and F2. Anything other than that I think you're really splitting hairs, and this isnn't really a hair splitting game. You will never by choice, hit the exact mode at the most optimum time. If you do it's by accident. Those three methods will work nicely with just about any shoe with I think system40 being by far the most versitile and can cover up a lot of mistakes. I can't really say how ADN is going to perform during a shoe. I'm not sure just exactly when I should be using it because it jumps back and forth all over the place. At least the the basic 3 I mentioned I know how they will perform and when they won't perform. Obviously I've just leaned tha ADN isn't good with streaky shoes. But at this point, I'm not sure exactly when I should apply it so I'm sticking with the 3 I mentioned and take whatever it gives me. If I lose, then I really know why. When I lose with ADN, I'm left scratching my head and asking why. I've got to shelve working on ADN because I've just found it to be very frustrating yet it has it's times of brilliance.

That is fine Jersey and all you say is true but there will be those who, due to time constraints and personal situations, will not be able to learn multiple systems or to study when to apply which. ADN is perfect for them because it is one simple system that needs no table selection most can learn in an hour after first learning the difference between an opposite and a repeat.

But you completely leave out what I think is the most important element for professional level full time play and that is TABLE biases. The professional wants to know the table bias before he sits down and then merely confirm the shoe bias. And then watch for the worm to turn. That is how I have always played and what I'm trying to ultimately teach. That is why I spend so much time on new vs old cards and on card prep biases.

But we have all levels of players here from casual players to full time pros. I'm trying to give each the best way to win that fits their particular circumstances. Those are the conditions I face as the teacher.

This reminds me of the statement I made in the my NBJ BJ book. I said you CAN'T win on Saturday night. Nancy Patterson flew off the handle and said you can't say that because many of my players can ONLY play on Saturday nights. I said sorry Nancy but I don't create the conditions. All I can do is teach how to beat the conditions that exist in real casinos. Fortunately we don't have that particular situation in Baccarat. I'm sure everyone can understand her position. Standing up for her players. But the BEST thing she could have done for her players is tell them not to play Saturday nights as I had learned the hard way. NOBODY can consistently beat Saturday night BJ conditions regardless of their BJ skill level. The tables are too full and the cards too clumped.

It falls on equally deaf ears when I say the best time to play Baccarat is new cards. But how many are there at 8 AM? Even when I play with our own members, I'm nealy always the only one there at 8 AM. If you want to play pro, you do what you have to do to win.

You have picked good systems to study. But every shoe is not the first screw of Adam. Every table has a history UNLESS its new cards. But then the card prep has a history.

I see ADN as a great system when there is no discernable bias to take advantage of. But it is also a good casual player system.

In your shoe Repeats are flying at you. You DON"T want a system that favors nothing. You want a system that favors Repeats. That is what you are seeing and the prior shoes were LIKELY much the same.

I and many of my students have played Vegas when every table at every casino was runs following runs. You go with the flow. Look, they cheat. You don't complain. There is no one to complain to. You play what is.

Look at Bet Phoenix. Do you think that's random coincidence? Hell no. They are experimenting with their shuffle. Take advantage of it. The card prep at Gold Strike produced perfect OTB4L conditions for three years. No casino is perfect. They can ALL be beat by the player who is paying attention.

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Re Jersey's posted shoe, Well, you didn't swap at play 18. The only reason I did a little better is I didn't play it 3 Hi. When I lost the 6 entry I waited for a paper win.

But look, in all reality, none of us would have stuck with ADN very long. At play 13 you've already had 4 3's in 13 plays. The shoe is spitting 3's as we say. I would simply play Repeats until the runs got to 3. When you get a shoe that biased you drop everything and do what the shoe is telling you to do.

It should be obvious to you that 3s are MC by ten miles. Had you simply played repeats and switched over at three you would have scored +33 in only 2 cols with a highest bet of a single 4. I can't be the only one seeing that. And I'll bet the prior shoe of the same color was much the same.

Edited by ECD
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Ellis............Here's maybe the problem we're running into with ADN. When we started this thread, you said that with ADN we don't have to stop after 3 losses on the side that's losing. That this system, because of how it works, doesn't need a stop on the side that lost 3 in a row. You said, "The big difference is this: We are starting out with the ONLY system perfectly designed for net betting." Well maybe it has it's flaws and we need to stop it when it's not working and bet the other side unapposed. Just a thought. At this point I'm just going to "roll my own" and do it the hard. way. I understand everyone here has their own ways and time they can allocate to studying a method. So if anyone wants to put the time in, they might try using the usual, when losing three in a row, bet the other system unapposed until you get two in a row or WLW on the losing side.

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Yeah, I've been thinking about the same thing all day. The swap makes us vulnerable to a 2,3. Worse, it makes us vulnerable after we already lost 4 bets. If you notice, one prog always wins both circles of a 2 in a row and always wins the top two circles of every run. Of course the other prog ALWAYS loses those same bets. I've been trying to figure a way to use that to our advantage. If we suspend after two losses we lose to 3s, so that's out. Maybe suspending after 3 losses is the only option. We would do better on TT runs but not as well in the 212s. It's eluding me for the moment.

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I think the easiest answer is the simple STOP LOSS... yes, everything loses to something... but if we have something that wins, say, 85% of the time, let a stop loss take care of the losing 15%!!

Right? I mean, lets not throw the baby out with the bath water... ADN seems like a DAMN good system... so lets figure out the max we want to loose vs the win goal and let the math take care of the rest :cool:

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  • 3 weeks later...

%7Boption%7Dhttp://c:\documents and settings\joshua\my documents\casino forums(baccarat)\play examples\score card adn.pdf[/img

I would like to add to the ADN Test Results.

Play Mode : ADN (Net Bet).

Score Card of Actual table bet in a casino.

Play by Play of the actual shoe:

Hands

# 4 to 7 ----- Start with AD mode

# 8 ---- Switch to ADN mode.

# 17 ---- Lost to first 2’s

# 24 to 29 ---- Biggest lost of 6 chips because of 2112 pattern.

# 30 ---- Recovered with the highest bet of 5 chips, still on ADN mode.

# 32 to 35 ---- Lost to another 2’s in a 121 pattern.

Stop after these losses.

Win only 8 chips.

Special Notes

The same shoe if played with ADOT mode, would have won 19 chips.

(Please try it out, THANKS)

With a switch to OT mode at hand’s # 19.

The biggest lost was encounted at hand # 17 after a 2’s ( lost 2 bets straight down )

At # 18 Force to SKIP a table bet. Then continued with OT mode to WIN 19 chips.

Dear Fellow members, please comment with any suggestion to improve this ADN system will be appreciated.

Cheers and Good Luck to all.

Grat.

Sorry for the late Posting of the ScoreCard.

With help from the Administrator, MVSeahog, I hope my upload of the Score Card will be successful this time.

[ATTACH]1916[/ATTACH]

Edited by Grat
Could not attached image (pdf.file)
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