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I'm working up to a major Marketing campaign proposal that will involve all of us.

And there is good money in it for everyone who wants to participate!

So I've been studying the competition to help design a Marketing approach.

But you guys likely know more about that than I do.

What I'd like you to do is post here about any Baccarat sites or systems you may have found that sound plausible -

that you feel are in competition with us.

I would describe BTC in a word as a forum that teaches how to play Baccarat successfully W/O betting over 5 or 6 units.

I'm not seeing any competition in that category. Maybe you know of some.

I've been told that Baccaratforums has shut down so I ran a search and this seems to be true. This does not surprise me.

They've been going downhill ever since I left. But they could never even come up with their own system.

I know about Silverthorn but he has been totally discredited. In fact betting an up as you lose Fibonaci was totally discredited

back in the '80s. And he never even told you which side to bet.

There are several so called Baccarat system sellers that don't tell you which side to bet. Those aren't even systems.

A system is a betting strategy combined with a side selection strategy.

One prominent Asian school for $7000 teaches you how to bet a Martingale. They don't tell you which side to bet either.

But they warn you about negative spirits lurking in the casino.

What's a Martingale? 1 2 4 8 16 32 64. That's as high as you can go within the table limit betting $100 units.

And you have to bet black or you will never pay for your system. Every bet you win you win ONE unit.

But if a 7 iar pops up, you lose 127 units. How often does that happen? Once every 4 shoes.

Another Asian school copied my SAP system verbatim. But then once you get your weighted SAP chart set up

they tell you to bet that the weak events will catch up! I'm sure the casinos LOVE those guys.

There are a few Labuchere, or however you spell it, systems out there but none have a good selection system

to go with it and their bets get too high to boot.

We had our own Maverick leave BTC to sell his own system. That didn't fly very long. He wasn't the first.

I'm interested in their pricing and what they basically advertize.

It seems to me that $7000 is a common price these days.

What are you guys seeing out there? Do I have ANY competition anymore?

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What are you guys seeing out there?

I try to track down and monitor as many "creditable" sites as I can in a given time period.

Believe it or not, there is a serious lack of baccarat discussion around the net.

Yes, you've got the single setup, break-away type of semi-private forum still around, but they eventually all seem to collapse under their own weight and particular predjudices. Some of the "requirements" of these sites border on the silly, but it's their forum and they can run it the way they like.

Several of the roulette based forums, not already paralyzed by a single owner, have tried to start baccarat sections, but they eventually just wither away due to lack of participation. The Martingale and chasing Banker are always high on the list of "new and exciting discoveries".

I keep looking and searching, but there's nothing really out there with the staying power of being right here. I'm always willing to entertain any new ideas in baccarat, but they just aren't showing up like the almost daily blasting of "new" roulette systems.

You may find this funny, but the one guy who actually had a chance to run a reasonably intelligent public baccarat board was "Garnabby"!!

Really. His board was planned out well and other than his propencity to copy/paste almost everything ever written, the board had possibilities, but he eventually strangled it to death by slowly banning anyone with an idea that went against his theory of gambling, which was pretty much everyone.

He has popped up recently in a few of the roulette boards, but is up to his old tricks of just posting reams of inconsequential data to make sure everyone is duly impressed. Never a mention of actual gambling or winning, of course.

So, if anyone else has found a decent (and civilized) open baccarat board, I'd love to hear about it.

MVS

Edited by MVSeahog
More spelling errors. Cut down on the tequila.
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SureWin4U (http://www.surewin4u.com/)

It's kind of a network marketing entity that uses Baccarat to generate a return for you and open up further opportunities within the Network for future business ventures...

Depending on how much you invest i.e. over £4800 they will show you how they win Baccarat at 99.8% or even 100%... they don't expect you to gamble yourself... just to prove that they can generate a return on your investment.

They use a modified Martingale system and their method of placing bets (i.e. Player or Banker)

Through that I discovered the world of Baccarat, started searching the web and it's what lead me to here... I wanted to learn a better, knowledgeable and intelligible way of winning ;-)

Peter

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SureWin4U (http://www.surewin4u.com/)

It's kind of a network marketing entity that uses Baccarat to generate a return for you and open up further opportunities within the Network for future business ventures...

Depending on how much you invest i.e. over £4800 they will show you how they win Baccarat at 99.8% or even 100%... they don't expect you to gamble yourself... just to prove that they can generate a return on your investment.

They use a modified Martingale system and their method of placing bets (i.e. Player or Banker)

Through that I discovered the world of Baccarat, started searching the web and it's what lead me to here... I wanted to learn a better, knowledgeable and intelligible way of winning ;-)

Peter

So Peter, I take it you are basically investing in their play???

And they are betting a modified Martingale (which takes a large bankroll.)

Scary! In 30+ years I have never seen any kind of Martingale work long term.

Plus there are casino countermeasures to such play.

I don't care how good their selection system is - as we all know, there are always shoes from hell.

But thanks for the information. These guys must be relatively new ?

It sounds similar to what Leonard Benson tried. That's why he's out of the country!

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I try to track down and monitor as many "creditable" sites as I can in a given time period.

Believe it or not, there is a serious lack of baccarat discussion around the net.

Yes, you've got the single setup, break-away type of semi-private forum still around, but they eventually all seem to collapse under their own weight and particular predjudices. Some of the "requirements" of these sites border on the silly, but it's their forum and they can run it the way they like.

Several of the roulette based forums, not already paralyzed by a single owner, have tried to start baccarat sections, but they eventually just wither away due to lack of participation. The Martingale and chasing Banker are always high on the list of "new and exciting discoveries".

I keep looking and searching, but there's nothing really out there with the staying power of being right here. I'm always willing to entertain any new ideas in baccarat, but they just aren't showing up like the almost daily blasting of "new" roulette systems.

You may find this funny, but the one guy who actually had a chance to run a reasonably intelligent public baccarat board was "Garnabby"!!

Really. His board was planned out well and other than his propencity to copy/paste almost everything ever written, the board had possibilities, but he eventually strangled it to death by slowly banning anyone with an idea that went against his theory of gambling, which was pretty much everyone.

He has popped up recently in a few of the roulette boards, but is up to his old tricks of just posting reams of inconsequential data to make sure everyone is duly impressed. Never a mention of actual gambling or winning, of course.

So, if anyone else has found a decent (and civilized) open baccarat board, I'd love to hear about it.

MVS

Thanks MVS! That coorelates to what I'm seeing too.

IMHO Garnabby is a nut case.

And a phony - He posted a scarlet red Math degree but has never heard of Calculus. Impossible!

But he was a lot of fun when he tried denying watching us kill that shoe at Gold Coast

after introducing himself to 15 of us.

I'm seeing no competition down in our bet range - basically 1 - 5 units or less.

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They're relatively new... I think they're just using Baccarat as a method of generating Capital for future ventures... once they reach their target say $20 Billion they'll more on to their next plan...

Funny story is that I went to one of their teaching seminars about how they can win Baccarat @ 99.8% , and it was in a language I didn't really understand... and hey, I knew nothing about Baccarat then... my other friends invested and got a monthly return... so I thought I give it a try, why leave my money in the bank where it'll be Worth-Less over time because Rate of Inflation is higher than the amount of interest the banks pay in! - overtime I will get a return of all of my investment, so nothing lost.

This triggered a new pathway/idea in my head that maybe I can do this myself...? I was thinking, there must be a better, logical system out there then what they're using with less risk... I looked at a few other systems... Silverthorne's, Win@Baccarat and etc (I have not bought any of these!), created and ran simulations - they didn't really work, and then I stumbled upon here at BTC after a few weeks, and a lot of things makes sense here... and close to 'Reality' ;-)

Peter

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They're relatively new... I think they're just using Baccarat as a method of generating Capital for future

ventures... once they reach their target say $20 Billion they'll more on to their next plan...

Funny story is that I went to one of their teaching seminars about how they can win Baccarat @ 99.8% , and it was in a language I

didn't really understand... and hey, I knew nothing about Baccarat then... my other friends invested and got a monthly return... so

I thought I give it a try, why leave my money in the bank where it'll be Worth-Less over time because Rate of Inflation is higher than

the amount of interest the banks pay in! - overtime I will get a return of all of my investment, so nothing lost.

This triggered a new pathway/idea in my head that maybe I can do this myself...? I was thinking, there must be a better, logical

system out there then what they're using with less risk... I looked at a few other systems... Silverthorne's, Win@Baccarat and etc

(I have not bought any of these!), created and ran simulations - they didn't really work, and then I stumbled upon here at BTC after

a few weeks, and a lot of things makes sense here... and close to 'Reality' ;-)

Peter

Be careful Peter. This sounds like a Ponzi scheme - common in the States. They pay dividends to old investors out of new investment

money rather than out of earned income from invested money. These guys can go for years as long as there's always new investors.

Highly illegal but hard to catch them. They pay high dividends to maintain a supply of new investors. But eventually....

They may be talking Baccarat to present a good story line to the public. That is what it sounds like to me. They could be losing in their

play, if they even play, and still paying a return out of new money. A neat trick at least for a while, until you try to cash out.

Martingales are suicidal.

Keith and I have considered a real investment program.

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Thanks Ellis,

I did think/wondered about that... It won't be a huge loss if I don't get anything back... Since I've discovered BTC after encountering this I can regain what I've invested... Positive attitude ;-)

They do play Baccarat themselves, and they present themselves in public, I've seen them, unlike many people who hide their identities... I saw the cheques of their winnings from Lazar Casino.

You learn from your ways...

Peter

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  • Baccarat Hall of Fame Member

Hi Ellis,

I must say that I think to know everything about bac sites on the net but since baccaratforums gave up there are no discussion at all about baccarat.

A suggestion: the far east market I think that could be a great opportunity because is rich of avid players.

sometimes I play for fun in a baccarat app for my iPad where you play on line together with other people, like a casino table, it's very funny but you don't have idea how many people play there. if just a little % could be attract by BTC you'll have maaaany more members for sure.

bacclover

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Hey Ellis, I'm going to put in my two cents here, I think I told you about this site about 5 years ago, let's Talk Winning http://www.letstalkwinning.com

It's Izak Matatya's site where he has many systems for sale not only for Baccarat but also craps, BJ, roulette stock market etc. He I'd Canadian and lives in / near Montreal. His most famous Baccarat creation is Infallible Baccarat System where I believe has high betting units and if I'm correct, plays only on Player side... I'm not 100% on this but that's all I can remember. http://www.letstalkwinning.com/IBS7.htm

Looks like he has a new system called CYL2 (Catch you Later) Baccarat System Version 2. http://www.letstalkwinning.com/CYL2.htm

He is good at marketing his products and puts on a big sale around Christmas time and New Year's by sending email s to all members of his Forum and previous customers. I have not visited the forum in years.

Anyhow, there is my input, I neither own these systems and don't endorse them but they are out there.

CC

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I have previously purchased a variety of systems from Leonard Benson Company from craps, baccarat and blackjack. Nothing seems to work in a winning way on a consistent basis. Is his business shutdown now?

Have not seen any circulars or mailings from Leonard Benson, and the telephone numbers has been disconnected. What has happened to Leonard Benson, is he in trouble with the Las Vegas officials, why is he out of the country?

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I have previously purchased a variety of systems from Leonard Benson Company from craps, baccarat and blackjack. Nothing seems to work in a winning way on a consistent basis. Is his business shutdown now?

Have not seen any circulars or mailings from Leonard Benson, and the telephone numbers has been disconnected. What has happened to Leonard Benson, is he in trouble with the Las Vegas officials, why is he out of the country?

Well, I would just be repeating rumors. Does anyone know the actual facts?

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Hey Ellis, I'm going to put in my two cents here, I think I told you about this site about 5 years ago, let's Talk Winning http://www.letstalkwinning.com

It's Izak Matatya's site where he has many systems for sale not only for Baccarat but also craps, BJ, roulette stock market etc. He I'd Canadian and lives in / near Montreal. His most famous Baccarat creation is Infallible Baccarat System where I believe has high betting units and if I'm correct, plays only on Player side... I'm not 100% on this but that's all I can remember. http://www.letstalkwinning.com/IBS7.htm

Looks like he has a new system called CYL2 (Catch you Later) Baccarat System Version 2. http://www.letstalkwinning.com/CYL2.htm

He is good at marketing his products and puts on a big sale around Christmas time and New Year's by sending email s to all members of his Forum and previous customers. I have not visited the forum in years.

Anyhow, there is my input, I neither own these systems and don't endorse them but they are out there.

CC

Right, some of us are familiar with Izak. Virtuoid inferred on ImSpirit that he is a scammer. I don't think that is true at all.

He tries hard and he means well. He just needs more experience. Perhaps a lot more.

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I found this site on youtube:gambleiq.com claim they have "Baccarat System Profits Guaranteed".

Let's say this is quite similar to SureWin4U system...

The Joy's of Martingale? NOT!!! What do you do after losing 9 bets...? Try it out on a Baccarat Simulator... and you'll be glad it was fake money you were playing with... ;-)

Peter

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  • Baccarat Hall of Fame Member
Well, check it out Jerry but that kind of advertizing usually means a Martingale.

Instead of Ellis Needs Your Help, go to the gamble IQ website and you will become convinced Dave Gunas needs even more help with the King's English before he teaches you the intricacies of baccarat...

( check out the part about VIP membership!)

Oh, and last I checked the going rate for private sessions was $7500.

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